Discussion
Sorry folks, it's time for a rant. I went to an ID card meeting last night - and have to say that is was the scariest thing I've heard in a long time.
I didn't know that after the Paddington rail crash, the survivors who kicked up some (quite reasonable) fuss were investigated for political links. WTF? Now imagine that some petty beaurocrat can, at the click of a mouse, get details of every visit to your doctor, every speeding ticket, every flight you've taken, your employment record and more and all those details for your partner. Once you're in the database, you'd better behave, citizen.
The government timetable includes having all cars satellite tracked by 2010. I can't see that happening, but it's likely that most major journeys will be recorded by then. Link that with ID cards and Big Brother will be able to know where you are at all times, and what you were doing when you got there. Get there too fast and who needs speed cameras any more?
They talk in terms of using iris-scans to prove who you are. Currently they can scan you from a distance and match that to your id without you being aware. Nice to know that the next time you protest against fuel prices, or just turn up at 'high-risk' locations such as train stations, your presence can be recorded.
Add on the new excuse for police to stop and search at will. No longer do you have to be committing a crime before a friendly policeman can stop you - 'just need to see your id card mate'. It used to be that the police had to show you their badge before they could talk to you, it could soon be the other way around. God help people who look slightly foreign, or drive flash cars.
If that lot weren't scary enough, the cards have been proven not to prevent terrorism (Madrid), illegal immigration (gangmasters don't exactly care), benefit fraud (only 1% is actually preventable by proof of id), or crime (burglars won't be carrying their cards around). The government want to monitor and control us, and are jumping from one 'good reason' for ID cards to the next, what will it be next week?
Finally, to add insult to injury, we'll have to pay eighty-five quid for the priviledge at current estimates (and you know how those figures only go up). The three billion pounds this is estimated to cost could go towards roads, hospitals, schools - something that would actually make a difference.
It's not that this is a political issue - this is about civil servants making work for themselves. Stuff ID cards - we abolished them in 1950 and there is no reason to bring them back.
...and breathe. There aren't many things that get me really angry, but this is definately one.
I didn't know that after the Paddington rail crash, the survivors who kicked up some (quite reasonable) fuss were investigated for political links. WTF? Now imagine that some petty beaurocrat can, at the click of a mouse, get details of every visit to your doctor, every speeding ticket, every flight you've taken, your employment record and more and all those details for your partner. Once you're in the database, you'd better behave, citizen.
The government timetable includes having all cars satellite tracked by 2010. I can't see that happening, but it's likely that most major journeys will be recorded by then. Link that with ID cards and Big Brother will be able to know where you are at all times, and what you were doing when you got there. Get there too fast and who needs speed cameras any more?
They talk in terms of using iris-scans to prove who you are. Currently they can scan you from a distance and match that to your id without you being aware. Nice to know that the next time you protest against fuel prices, or just turn up at 'high-risk' locations such as train stations, your presence can be recorded.
Add on the new excuse for police to stop and search at will. No longer do you have to be committing a crime before a friendly policeman can stop you - 'just need to see your id card mate'. It used to be that the police had to show you their badge before they could talk to you, it could soon be the other way around. God help people who look slightly foreign, or drive flash cars.
If that lot weren't scary enough, the cards have been proven not to prevent terrorism (Madrid), illegal immigration (gangmasters don't exactly care), benefit fraud (only 1% is actually preventable by proof of id), or crime (burglars won't be carrying their cards around). The government want to monitor and control us, and are jumping from one 'good reason' for ID cards to the next, what will it be next week?
Finally, to add insult to injury, we'll have to pay eighty-five quid for the priviledge at current estimates (and you know how those figures only go up). The three billion pounds this is estimated to cost could go towards roads, hospitals, schools - something that would actually make a difference.
It's not that this is a political issue - this is about civil servants making work for themselves. Stuff ID cards - we abolished them in 1950 and there is no reason to bring them back.
...and breathe. There aren't many things that get me really angry, but this is definately one.
docevi1 said:
think of the logistics of getting all that working and the current way IT projects are going, it'll not be done by 2015 and it won't work properly
So they'll fleece us for more cash (probably remotely through electronic bank account tapping) and carry on with it anyway, flaws and all.
These people are control freaks in the process of setting up a 1984 Police state around us - it's no laughing matter!
The only way around it is to ensure, of course, that they don't make it in government after May's election.
That's a point - elections - before long, how would you know if that most private of functions - the ballot - isn't being looked upon so governments know who to target and who to fleece in order to stay in power.
These guys are power mad!
v8thunder said:
These people are control freaks in the process of setting up a 1984 Police state around us - it's no laughing matter!
The only way around it is to ensure, of course, that they don't make it in government after May's election.
That's a point - elections - before long, how would you know if that most private of functions - the ballot - isn't being looked upon so governments know who to target and who to fleece in order to stay in power.
These guys are power mad!
Unfortunately there is no alternative as Vlad the Impaler has also nailed his colours to the ID card mast. It should come as no suprise though because I can't imagine there is a single member of the new "ruling class" who wouldn't like to snoop on and control us more.
What it needs, as is regularly said on these pages is some kind of new political party that talks common sense and is completely devoid of professional politicians who have never done a real days work.
wolves_wanderer said:
What it needs, as is regularly said on these pages is some kind of new political party that talks common sense and is completely devoid of professional politicians who have never done a real days work.
Or.. write to your MP and tell them they won't be getting your vote. Strangely it does actually get their attention after they get letters on the same subject again and again.
These links are both quite handy
www.no2id.org.uk/ and www.faxyourmp.org/
>> Edited by Tuna on Wednesday 26th January 12:01
Tuna said:
Or.. write to your MP and tell them they won't be getting your vote. Strangely it does actually get their attention after they get letters on the same subject again and again.
These links are both quite handy
<a href="http://www.no2id.org.uk/">www.no2id.org.uk/</a> and www.faxyourmp.org/
>> Edited by Tuna on Wednesday 26th January 12:01
Done, the repulsive Helen Clark now has my opinions on the ID card issue.
wolves_wanderer said:
Tuna said:
Or.. write to your MP and tell them they won't be getting your vote. Strangely it does actually get their attention after they get letters on the same subject again and again.
These links are both quite handy
<a href="http://www.no2id.org.uk/"><a href="http://www.no2id.org.uk/"><a href="http://www.no2id.org.uk/">www.no2id.org.uk/</a></a></a> and <a href="http://www.faxyourmp.org/"><a href="http://www.faxyourmp.org/">www.faxyourmp.org/</a></a>
>> Edited by Tuna on Wednesday 26th January 12:01
Done, the repulsive Helen Clark now has my opinions on the ID card issue.
Repulsive, that's nowhere near strong enough. I think you fancy her
Not only did she fall out the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, she landed in the cess pit of absolute uselessness at the bottom.
God I hate that self serving ugly bint with a passion.
Edited to add... Petition duly signed
>> Edited by BliarOut on Wednesday 26th January 12:25
BliarOut said:
Repulsive, that's nowhere near strong enough. I think you fancy her
Not only did she fall out the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, she landed in the cess pit of absolute uselessness at the bottom.
God I hate that self serving ugly bint with a passion.
Edited to add... Petition duly signed
>> Edited by BliarOut on Wednesday 26th January 12:25
[marywhitehouseexperiencemode] Well, I heard she's your mum, and you love her. You want to kiss her on the lips oh
I wrote to my MP through N02ID and he promptly ignored my request for him to vote against it and forwarded my letter to the Home Secretary - I eventually got a reply back from Blind Pugh's replacement's lackey that was a complete whitewash.
We're not going to have a say in this at all.
Mr Howard replied to a similar letter, but qualified it by saying that although they agreed with their introduction, they wanted to have more security over their use and details to be scrutinised more fully before actually agreeing to the current proposal.
Piccy mate
We're not going to have a say in this at all.
Mr Howard replied to a similar letter, but qualified it by saying that although they agreed with their introduction, they wanted to have more security over their use and details to be scrutinised more fully before actually agreeing to the current proposal.
Piccy mate
Tuna said:
What it needs, as is regularly said on these pages is some kind of new political party that talks common sense and is completely devoid of professional politicians who have never done a real days work.
Or.. write to your MP and tell them they won't be getting your vote. Strangely it does actually get their attention after they get letters on the same subject again and again.
These links are both quite handy
<a href="http://www.no2id.org.uk/">www.no2id.org.uk/</a> and www.faxyourmp.org/
>> Edited by Tuna on Wednesday 26th January 12:01
I really hate the idea of an ID card, not because of what it can do in terms of control. Just because I think it's another glorious waste of money.
Have you still got your pink and blue national insurance card? I think not. Nor have I. How much must that have cost.
In respect of the big brother issues, you need to get real. Your government doesn't even know when it's enemies are spying on you. Can you really see them excercising any control over legitimate members of society?
I thnk the biggest worries of ID card based Orwellian society come from the EU, not at home.
Have you still got your pink and blue national insurance card? I think not. Nor have I. How much must that have cost.
In respect of the big brother issues, you need to get real. Your government doesn't even know when it's enemies are spying on you. Can you really see them excercising any control over legitimate members of society?
I thnk the biggest worries of ID card based Orwellian society come from the EU, not at home.
As far as I can see, the only way ID cards could possibly be of any use against terrorism and/or illegal imigration is if it is made mandatory to carry them at all times, and that failure to present it when asked by the police would result in immediate arrest.
Think about it....anything less would be pointless.
Think about it....anything less would be pointless.
wolosp said:
As far as I can see, the only way ID cards could possibly be of any use against terrorism and/or illegal imigration is if it is made mandatory to carry them at all times, and that failure to present it when asked by the police would result in immediate arrest.
Think about it....anything less would be pointless.
...and you think this eventually won't be the case?
Oh God here we go again 
.The paranoia, oh the paranoia. As if the government doesn't have better things to do than following your every move, out of the other 59 999999. Go into internet explorer and see all the cookies that track your every move, to all the porn sites for example you look at. (look don't deny it! 
) If the government want they can find out exactly where you've been. You would only have to worry if you visit bomb making sites or paedophile sites, and then you only have yourself to blame.
Driller (sighs and ducks
)
.The paranoia, oh the paranoia. As if the government doesn't have better things to do than following your every move, out of the other 59 999999. Go into internet explorer and see all the cookies that track your every move, to all the porn sites for example you look at. (look don't deny it! ) If the government want they can find out exactly where you've been. You would only have to worry if you visit bomb making sites or paedophile sites, and then you only have yourself to blame. Driller (sighs and ducks
)GingerNinja said:
As far as I can see, the only way ID cards could possibly be of any use against terrorism and/or illegal imigration is if it is made mandatory to carry them at all times, and that failure to present it when asked by the police would result in immediate arrest.
Think about it....anything less would be pointless.
...and you think this eventually won't be the case?
Swimming will become very interesting with coppers by the poolside/beach, frogmarching all and sundry to the meatwagon.
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