Thatcham Listing
Discussion
Julian64 said:Been there, done that, said my car hadn't got an alarm, as they had no listing for a Red Rose (this was Direct Line) and then when you say it has a branded device they can't comtemplate the idea that a manufactuer would buy in rather than make their own.
According to my insurance company, there is no thatcham listing for the TVR Cerbera. Anyone got any info, because potentially its regarded as not having an approved immobiliser.
I even had a letter from TVR backing it up saying all TVRs were fitted with a Meta system, but they said that wasn't right as it didn't have my registration on
Eventually looked up the approval codes from the Thatcham site and they accepted them, these are:
Meta M99T2 Alarm - TC2-1198/0401
Meta M36T2 Immobiliser - TE2-1046/0898
There is also a M23A Microwave Sensor fitted, but that has no approval code and wasn't asked for.
Julian64 said:It wasn't for TVR alas, but for those individual components they fit.
thanks tripps, but I can't find TVR anywhere on the thatcham site. You don't have a link do you?
If it helps mail me via my profile and I can scan and sent the letter from TVR saying what they have fitted to their cars.
Okay well this is rather depressing news. No Cerb, or for that matter any TVR is Thatcham approved.
Anyone who has declared that their car is Thatcham approved to their insurance company is potentially in trouble.
It goes like this.
Phoned top guy in Thatcham security. Apparently although Tripps is absolutely right with the equipment, except the later TVRs had the Meta 99T2 instead of the 999T.
Thatcham do recognise this as a thatcham Cat 1 alarm system.
However TVR has never been approved, or even tried to be approved to fit this alarm. Hence the car can't get a thatcham rating, cos it has to be fitted by an approved fitter in order to get the rating. This is why a letter from TVR saying they fit it to all their cars is useless.
If you ring TVR direct they know this
. They will supply you with a letter saying what kit your car has but will add that they are not a thatcham approved fitter thereby shooting themselves in the foot, and declaring your alarm void.
The only option is to get the car inspected by a local thatcham approved fitter, at which point he'll ask you why TVR didn't fit the bonnet trip, or mounted the siren in such an easily accessible place. Again your fitting is void.
So there you go. If your insurnace finds out you don't have thatcham approval after your car is stolen, and its an easy phone call to thatcham to check, you're buggered.
Anyone who has declared that their car is Thatcham approved to their insurance company is potentially in trouble.
It goes like this.
Phoned top guy in Thatcham security. Apparently although Tripps is absolutely right with the equipment, except the later TVRs had the Meta 99T2 instead of the 999T.
Thatcham do recognise this as a thatcham Cat 1 alarm system.
However TVR has never been approved, or even tried to be approved to fit this alarm. Hence the car can't get a thatcham rating, cos it has to be fitted by an approved fitter in order to get the rating. This is why a letter from TVR saying they fit it to all their cars is useless.
If you ring TVR direct they know this
. They will supply you with a letter saying what kit your car has but will add that they are not a thatcham approved fitter thereby shooting themselves in the foot, and declaring your alarm void. The only option is to get the car inspected by a local thatcham approved fitter, at which point he'll ask you why TVR didn't fit the bonnet trip, or mounted the siren in such an easily accessible place. Again your fitting is void.
So there you go. If your insurnace finds out you don't have thatcham approval after your car is stolen, and its an easy phone call to thatcham to check, you're buggered.
Interesting this.
I no longer have the car but somewhere I do have a letter stating the Thatcham approval category and the like. It was a 99T2 and fitted when the car was built in 2001.
Its not just a 'its approved, alright?' letter it does go into specifics. I'll try to dig it out if it helps...
I no longer have the car but somewhere I do have a letter stating the Thatcham approval category and the like. It was a 99T2 and fitted when the car was built in 2001.
Its not just a 'its approved, alright?' letter it does go into specifics. I'll try to dig it out if it helps...
I thought the issue was that Thatcham qualification is more than the alarm. With Chim and Griff there is an issue about the interior sensor and Thatcham issued an official notice that although a Thatcham 1 alarm is fitted the car does not carry that level of certification. One problem with the Cerbera may be that the ignition key is left in situ so that extra layer of security is missing.
Interesting. I too have a copy of the letter and, now you come to mention it, I think it says something along the lines that all post-2000 Chimaeras have an approved device. However, this is a bit of a shame since mine is a 1997 car.
Still, I've been lucky that no insurer has minded so far, and that includes Cheam, Sunningdale and Mannings.
Having said that, the vehicle did have tracker fitted by its first owner, so that's something.
Still, I've been lucky that no insurer has minded so far, and that includes Cheam, Sunningdale and Mannings.
Having said that, the vehicle did have tracker fitted by its first owner, so that's something.
Yep, the M99T is listed but it can not be thatcham approved unless it is fitted by a thatcham approved fitter.
TVR have confessed on the phone this afternoon that they are not thatcham approved fitters and therefore none of the cars with factory fitted alarms can be certificated as thatcham approved, even if the alarm is itself.
So much so that TVR will not send you a letter stating that the car is Thatcham certified. They will however send you a letter stating whats fitted but that it isn't thatcham approved. 'they actually want to put those words in my letter'
Even thatcham have said this afternoon on the phone that no TVR has a thatcham approved device. Even they know whats on the car, but still say its not thatcham approved.
ALL the insurance companies receive a list from Thatcham, and TVR is specifically stated as not approved unless the fitting has been subsequently checked by a non TVR approved fitter.
I know this sounds crazy, and if you don't believe me ring TVR.
TVR have confessed on the phone this afternoon that they are not thatcham approved fitters and therefore none of the cars with factory fitted alarms can be certificated as thatcham approved, even if the alarm is itself.
So much so that TVR will not send you a letter stating that the car is Thatcham certified. They will however send you a letter stating whats fitted but that it isn't thatcham approved. 'they actually want to put those words in my letter'
Even thatcham have said this afternoon on the phone that no TVR has a thatcham approved device. Even they know whats on the car, but still say its not thatcham approved.
ALL the insurance companies receive a list from Thatcham, and TVR is specifically stated as not approved unless the fitting has been subsequently checked by a non TVR approved fitter.
I know this sounds crazy, and if you don't believe me ring TVR.
Julian64 said:
ALL the insurance companies receive a list from Thatcham, and TVR is specifically stated as not approved unless the fitting has been subsequently checked by a non TVR approved fitter.
I know this sounds crazy, and if you don't believe me ring TVR.
It's not crazy at all. If you take this through to the logical extreme, you could buy a Cat 1 device and attach it, unopened, in the boot with a cable tie. "But my vehicle has a Cat 1 alarm" you could say. Err, no. Of course it is only effective if it is fitted, and fitted correctly too.
So I can fully believe that the device isn't Cat 1 unless it has been fitted by someone trained to fit it.
I wish it were otherwise.
I think there are probably only two or three options.
1. Get the Meta system checked and adjusted and have a Certificate of Conformity issued.
2. Rip out the meta system and have it replaced with a fully Cat1 certified integrated system fitted by a certified fitter which will include a Certificate of Conformity
3. Find an insurer who doesn't mind (see my earlier post)
>> Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 26th January 19:49
Julian, if this is the case...
...then surely this is wrong...
...because your insurer already knows you don't have a thatcham approved alarm. When I claimed I had a cat 2 immobiliser in an old car, I had to produce documentation to prove this - I can't see why it would be different in a TVR if the insurer knows that they aren't standard fitment?
Julian64 said:
ALL the insurance companies receive a list from Thatcham, and TVR is specifically stated as not approved unless the fitting has been subsequently checked by a non TVR approved fitter.
...then surely this is wrong...
Julian64 said:
So there you go. If your insurnace finds out you don't have thatcham approval after your car is stolen, and its an easy phone call to thatcham to check, you're buggered.
...because your insurer already knows you don't have a thatcham approved alarm. When I claimed I had a cat 2 immobiliser in an old car, I had to produce documentation to prove this - I can't see why it would be different in a TVR if the insurer knows that they aren't standard fitment?
When I was arguing with Direct Line about the Red Rose (which they had no details for), they said they used the Thatcham database and that the normal Cerbera was approved and in fact when I entered my car by registration it automatically included a factory fitted alarm, alas my car wasn't registered as an RR and hence my problems.
So some companies perhaps do it differently perhaps, but I don't fancy finding out the hard way...
So some companies perhaps do it differently perhaps, but I don't fancy finding out the hard way...
Tripps said:
When I was arguing with Direct Line about the Red Rose (which they had no details for), they said they used the Thatcham database and that the normal Cerbera was approved and in fact when I entered my car by registration it automatically included a factory fitted alarm, alas my car wasn't registered as an RR and hence my problems.
So some companies perhaps do it differently perhaps, but I don't fancy finding out the hard way...
Well the chap in thatcham in charge of the list says no TVR is on the list, so not sure what list direct line uses. TVR was quite happy to give me a list of insurers that would recognise it. They were obviously well used to this question.
_dobbo_ said:
Julian, if this is the case...
Julian64 said:
ALL the insurance companies receive a list from Thatcham, and TVR is specifically stated as not approved unless the fitting has been subsequently checked by a non TVR approved fitter.
...then surely this is wrong...
Julian64 said:
So there you go. If your insurnace finds out you don't have thatcham approval after your car is stolen, and its an easy phone call to thatcham to check, you're buggered.
...because your insurer already knows you don't have a thatcham approved alarm. When I claimed I had a cat 2 immobiliser in an old car, I had to produce documentation to prove this - I can't see why it would be different in a TVR if the insurer knows that they aren't standard fitment?
I queried this with my insurance. Its a case of some companies take your declaration as read, and some need proof. If they take your declaration as read and later prove you lied or gave unknowingly false information you're buggered.
Julian64 said:They looked up all the components I mentioned for their individual approvals, so I guess they used this rather than specific car approval?
Well the chap in thatcham in charge of the list says no TVR is on the list, so not sure what list direct line uses. TVR was quite happy to give me a list of insurers that would recognise it. They were obviously well used to this question.
By the time I started getting some sense from Direct Line I was speaking to a senior manager who was speaking to the underwriter. Before that I'd been told that I'd not been covered for theft while away for three weeks, they said it was alright as if it had been stolen their engineer would have checked it for an alarm, I then asked what if it was never found or incinerated, to which I was told I'd be buggered, in a friendly kind of way!
Update : after explaining my problem with insurance to TVR they write me this letter to use.
"
Please take this as confirmation that all TVR's manufactured from september 1998 are fitted with the Meta M99T2 alarm system.
The alam comprises of two units linked together, the M99T2 alarm contol unit with battery backed siren and the M36T2 immobilser along with the M23T2 microwave sensor.
This system will bring TVR's in line with european anti-theft regulation 95/56.
The M36T2 and M99T2 are Thatcham cat 1 approved article if fitted by a Thatcham apporved installer. Please note TVR are not approved installers.
Yours faithfully
Mrs Lesley Rawles
TVR Service Department.
"
Now I ask you what a bloody stupid useless letter to write to help me. The fourth paragraph should read.
"We'd like to be very careful to cover our ass, and make sure we negate any benefit you may gain from having an alarm by fitting it using untrained monkeys, cos we couldn't be bothered to become accredited"
Needless to say I threw it in the bin, as anyone with half a brain would know that sending that to an insurance company is just asking for trouble.
"
Please take this as confirmation that all TVR's manufactured from september 1998 are fitted with the Meta M99T2 alarm system.
The alam comprises of two units linked together, the M99T2 alarm contol unit with battery backed siren and the M36T2 immobilser along with the M23T2 microwave sensor.
This system will bring TVR's in line with european anti-theft regulation 95/56.
The M36T2 and M99T2 are Thatcham cat 1 approved article if fitted by a Thatcham apporved installer. Please note TVR are not approved installers.
Yours faithfully
Mrs Lesley Rawles
TVR Service Department.
"
Now I ask you what a bloody stupid useless letter to write to help me. The fourth paragraph should read.
"We'd like to be very careful to cover our ass, and make sure we negate any benefit you may gain from having an alarm by fitting it using untrained monkeys, cos we couldn't be bothered to become accredited"
Needless to say I threw it in the bin, as anyone with half a brain would know that sending that to an insurance company is just asking for trouble.
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