UK Muslims to miss Holocaust ceremony
Discussion
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050126/325/fb3vf.html
LONDON (Reuters) - British Muslim leaders are unwilling to attend this week's commemoration of the liberation of the Auschwitz death camp, arguing that Holocaust Memorial Day should honour victims of genocide everywhere.
The country's main Islamic group said it should be called Genocide Memorial Day and commemorate all mass killings, including Bosnia, Rwanda and in Palestinian territories where up to 3.6 million Palestinians live under Israeli occupation.
"Israel has also committed mass killings," said Inayat Bunglawala, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain.
"It is undeniable," he told Reuters. "It has dispossessed a Palestinian nation. It is an insult to them if we don't recognise their deaths. The cry 'Never Again' should be for all people."
The council, representing 1.6 million Muslims in Britain, has written to Home Office Minister Charles Clarke spelling out their reasons for declining their invitation to attend.
"We are not belittling the Holocaust. We share the immense pain and anguish felt in the Jewish community about the Holocaust, but feel Britain is a multi-faith country and everyone should be involved," Bunglawala said.
This had been the Council's standpoint since the inception of Holocaust Memorial Day in 2001, he added.
"We believe the term Holocaust Memorial Day in the title is not inclusive," he said.
The Board of Deputies, an umbrella group for Britain's 290,000 Jews, was disappointed by the Muslims' stance.
"It is regrettable that they have declined this year especially as we commemorate the liberation of the camps by Allied forces," said a spokesman.
"The Board refute any suggestion that the Israelis are committing genocide," he added.
As part of commemorations, Queen Elizabeth is hosting a reception on Thursday for Holocaust survivors and British veterans who liberated the death camps.
Her grandson Prince Harry provoked outrage earlier this month when photographed at a costume party wearing a swastika armband and a Nazi army uniform.
The prince, third in line to the throne, apologised for his mistake but Jewish rights groups and politicians said he should do more.
The Nazis murdered six million Jews and millions of others, including Poles, homosexuals, Soviet prisoners and gypsies. Millions more were imprisoned or forced to work as slaves.
LONDON (Reuters) - British Muslim leaders are unwilling to attend this week's commemoration of the liberation of the Auschwitz death camp, arguing that Holocaust Memorial Day should honour victims of genocide everywhere.
The country's main Islamic group said it should be called Genocide Memorial Day and commemorate all mass killings, including Bosnia, Rwanda and in Palestinian territories where up to 3.6 million Palestinians live under Israeli occupation.
"Israel has also committed mass killings," said Inayat Bunglawala, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain.
"It is undeniable," he told Reuters. "It has dispossessed a Palestinian nation. It is an insult to them if we don't recognise their deaths. The cry 'Never Again' should be for all people."
The council, representing 1.6 million Muslims in Britain, has written to Home Office Minister Charles Clarke spelling out their reasons for declining their invitation to attend.
"We are not belittling the Holocaust. We share the immense pain and anguish felt in the Jewish community about the Holocaust, but feel Britain is a multi-faith country and everyone should be involved," Bunglawala said.
This had been the Council's standpoint since the inception of Holocaust Memorial Day in 2001, he added.
"We believe the term Holocaust Memorial Day in the title is not inclusive," he said.
The Board of Deputies, an umbrella group for Britain's 290,000 Jews, was disappointed by the Muslims' stance.
"It is regrettable that they have declined this year especially as we commemorate the liberation of the camps by Allied forces," said a spokesman.
"The Board refute any suggestion that the Israelis are committing genocide," he added.
As part of commemorations, Queen Elizabeth is hosting a reception on Thursday for Holocaust survivors and British veterans who liberated the death camps.
Her grandson Prince Harry provoked outrage earlier this month when photographed at a costume party wearing a swastika armband and a Nazi army uniform.
The prince, third in line to the throne, apologised for his mistake but Jewish rights groups and politicians said he should do more.
The Nazis murdered six million Jews and millions of others, including Poles, homosexuals, Soviet prisoners and gypsies. Millions more were imprisoned or forced to work as slaves.
Indeed, this is a tricky one, but it's a shame that they don't attend anyway instead of using the sombre occasion to make a point.
Agreed, there have been massacres by many organisations in human history, I can immediately think of the Catholic church killing (by burning) of around 10 million people between the 13th and 15th century for practising a religion they didn't agree with.
Agreed, there have been massacres by many organisations in human history, I can immediately think of the Catholic church killing (by burning) of around 10 million people between the 13th and 15th century for practising a religion they didn't agree with.
james_j said:
Indeed, this is a tricky one, but it's a shame that they don't attend anyway instead of using the sombre occasion to make a point.
Agreed, there have been massacres by many organisations in human history, I can immediately think of the Catholic church killing (by burning) of around 10 million people between the 13th and 15th century for practising a religion they didn't agree with.
Totally agree.
james_j said:
Agreed, there have been massacres by many organisations in human history, I can immediately think of the Catholic church killing (by burning) of around 10 million people between the 13th and 15th century for practising a religion they didn't agree with.
Given the above, it begs the question, why does the Holocaust get it's own special day?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Recent - well anyone who was alive during those times and has any real memory of events would have to be at least 65 - 70 years old....a relatively small % of the current global population. Recent by your definition mean 'before you were born' to most of the people alive today - should therefore includes all genocidal incidents.
Rwanda, Darfur, Eastern Timor are more recent occurrences of genocide and certainly more recent to our lifetimes - also equally as shocking (although maybe not quite as massive) and shouldn't be ignored. Or aren't those people worthy of consideration?
>> Edited by GingerNinja on Wednesday 26th January 16:12
Cambridge Dictionaries said:
Definition
holocaust
1 a very large amount of destruction, especially by fire or heat, or the killing of very large numbers of people:
A nuclear holocaust (= destruction caused by nuclear weapons) would leave few survivors.
2 the Holocaust the killing of millions of Jews and others by the Nazis before and during the Second World War
Perhaps a technicality but the word holocaust can encompas everyone who has died in large numbers, its just that a lot of people link the word holocaust with the second world war.
or am I wrong??
968 said:
Oh bugger it, i can't not post a comment.
I think this has more to do with Israel and Palastein than they are letting on.
Than who is letting on?
The British Muslim leaders, a chance to snub a 'mainly' jewish memorial, when everbody knows it is a Jewish states dealings that have caused such trouble.
cotty said:
Definition
holocaust
1 a very large amount of destruction, especially by fire or heat, or the killing of very large numbers of people:
A nuclear holocaust (= destruction caused by nuclear weapons) would leave few survivors.
2 the Holocaust the killing of millions of Jews and others by the Nazis before and during the Second World War
Perhaps a technicality but the word holocaust can encompas everyone who has died in large numbers, its just that a lot of people link the word holocaust with the second world war.
or am I wrong??
This event is capitalised therefore referring to The Holocaust rather than any holocaust - it's event specific.
[quote]The Nazis murdered six million Jews and millions of others, including Poles, homosexuals, Soviet prisoners and gypsies. Millions more were imprisoned or forced to work as slaves. [/quote]
Okay so the Jews lost the greatest number of people and it is perhaps percieved as a mainly Jewish catastropy but to boycott it for this reason is childish to say the least.
Why is it that only this act of genocide should be remembered though? Yes it was horrific, long running, etc but so were the pogroms in Russia, the way the Manchurians were treated by the Japanese, etc. It could, perhaps have have been better considered, maybe even labled something like international genocide day or whatever.
Don't forget the the 11th of the 11th at 11am was the day and time the armistice took effect and ended WWI, yet it is used to remember the sacrifice of millions of others in other conflicts.
Okay so the Jews lost the greatest number of people and it is perhaps percieved as a mainly Jewish catastropy but to boycott it for this reason is childish to say the least.
Why is it that only this act of genocide should be remembered though? Yes it was horrific, long running, etc but so were the pogroms in Russia, the way the Manchurians were treated by the Japanese, etc. It could, perhaps have have been better considered, maybe even labled something like international genocide day or whatever.
Don't forget the the 11th of the 11th at 11am was the day and time the armistice took effect and ended WWI, yet it is used to remember the sacrifice of millions of others in other conflicts.
GingerNinja said:
Cambridge Dictionaries said:
Definition
holocaust
1 a very large amount of destruction, especially by fire or heat, or the killing of very large numbers of people:
A nuclear holocaust (= destruction caused by nuclear weapons) would leave few survivors.
2 the Holocaust the killing of millions of Jews and others by the Nazis before and during the Second World War
Perhaps a technicality but the word holocaust can encompas everyone who has died in large numbers, its just that a lot of people link the word holocaust with the second world war.
or am I wrong??
This event is capitalised therefore referring to The Holocaust rather than any holocaust - it's event specific.
So if it were in lower case would that be ok
Vixpy1 said:
The British Muslim leaders, a chance to snub a 'mainly' jewish memorial, when everbody knows it is a Jewish states dealings that have caused such trouble.
I don't think they could have made themselves more clear, in directly saying that Israel had been implicit, in what they felt was mass murder.....
However, I don't think that excuses anything, and it is simply petty not to attend, and to make a political point, it is inappropriate.
Ahh but Israel did not even exist during WW2, how on earth can they link to it?
Should that mean beofre any other services or festivals are held for anyone anywhere that may have dies, we must now check to see if a Muslim was involved?
If they were do we withdraw? Of course we blooming well dont.
Should that mean beofre any other services or festivals are held for anyone anywhere that may have dies, we must now check to see if a Muslim was involved?
If they were do we withdraw? Of course we blooming well dont.
rich1231 said:
Ahh but Israel did not even exist during WW2, how on earth can they link to it?
Should that mean beofre any other services or festivals are held for anyone anywhere that may have dies, we must now check to see if a Muslim was involved?
If they were do we withdraw? Of course we blooming well dont.
could of guessed you'd pop out of the woodwork Rich.
Hope your well.
Typical Relgio-political b@ll@cks!
I am not a Jew, nor am I a Moslem, I do not believe in God. Just so we get this straight.
The Holocaust is not a religious issue, it wouldn't have mattered one iota just WHO these poor people were, and many were not Jewish, it is the fact that they were systematically exterminated, for no crime other than existing, that is the issue here.
These muppets are just trying to hijack this event because of their own religious/political bigotry. They appear to imply that 'All Jews are Israeli', therefore that they are all responsible for whatever injustices those in Israel subject Palestinians to. This is quite plainly rubbish!
In fact, if I were to make similar generalisations about religion/race/gender etc it would no doubt be considered most policitally incorrect and possibility a criminal act, but then, I'm a married, white, hetero-sexual male with no religion so I don't have a minority flag to wave/axe to grind at every bl@@dy opportunity that presents itself!
However, in these 'enlightened' times I'm getting to the point where I feel thoroughly oppressed by ever growing lines of lobbying minority groups who seem to consider their non-standardness to be a ticket to special treatment....wandering off topic.
Better shut up now.
I am not a Jew, nor am I a Moslem, I do not believe in God. Just so we get this straight.
The Holocaust is not a religious issue, it wouldn't have mattered one iota just WHO these poor people were, and many were not Jewish, it is the fact that they were systematically exterminated, for no crime other than existing, that is the issue here.
These muppets are just trying to hijack this event because of their own religious/political bigotry. They appear to imply that 'All Jews are Israeli', therefore that they are all responsible for whatever injustices those in Israel subject Palestinians to. This is quite plainly rubbish!
In fact, if I were to make similar generalisations about religion/race/gender etc it would no doubt be considered most policitally incorrect and possibility a criminal act, but then, I'm a married, white, hetero-sexual male with no religion so I don't have a minority flag to wave/axe to grind at every bl@@dy opportunity that presents itself!
However, in these 'enlightened' times I'm getting to the point where I feel thoroughly oppressed by ever growing lines of lobbying minority groups who seem to consider their non-standardness to be a ticket to special treatment....wandering off topic.
Better shut up now.
968 said:
The British Muslim leaders, a chance to snub a 'mainly' jewish memorial, when everbody knows it is a Jewish states dealings that have caused such trouble.
I don't think they could have made themselves more clear, in directly saying that Israel had been implicit, in what they felt was mass murder.....
However, I don't think that excuses anything, and it is simply petty not to attend, and to make a political point, it is inappropriate.
Isreals extermination of the Palestinians was just one example cited of genocidal activites they felt deserved rememberance. I think this is your agenda we're seeing here, not the Muslim Councils.
TeamD said:
Typical Relgio-political b@ll@cks!
I am not a Jew, nor am I a Moslem, I do not believe in God. Just so we get this straight.
The Holocaust is not a religious issue, it wouldn't have mattered one iota just WHO these poor people were, and many were not Jewish, it is the fact that they were systematically exterminated, for no crime other than existing, that is the issue here.
These muppets are just trying to hijack this event because of their own religious/political bigotry. They appear to imply that 'All Jews are Israeli', therefore that they are all responsible for whatever injustices those in Israel subject Palestinians to. This is quite plainly rubbish!
yep.... another shot in the foot by the MCB
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