Discussion
Its been many years since I sold my 944 S2 and have been out of the Porsche fold. Looking back I wish I had kept it, but that's another story.
I used to look at the ad's from time to time and thought the asking prices were starting to get silly so I stopped looking. 944/968 sellers trying to hang on the coat tails the 911 air cooled
However looking today, I get the feeling the asking prices have started to soften. Or am I mistaken ?
I used to look at the ad's from time to time and thought the asking prices were starting to get silly so I stopped looking. 944/968 sellers trying to hang on the coat tails the 911 air cooled
However looking today, I get the feeling the asking prices have started to soften. Or am I mistaken ?
Good cars (like mine) are hard to come by. A lot of these cars have covered 160k miles, been used every day for a lot of their life and thus have rotten sills and poor quality trim. Any good '80s car, be it a 944, Mercedes 2.13-16 or UR Quattro is commanding good money and selling at that level.
If you want to see cost-tailing, just look at the prices people are asking for Porsche 912s...one on eBay right now for £90k!!!!!!
If you want to see cost-tailing, just look at the prices people are asking for Porsche 912s...one on eBay right now for £90k!!!!!!
At the moment the 944 Turbo is commanding strong money. Last year £5k could find you something half decent if you were patient, now, £5k is the entry point. I have seen many 944 Turbo's cell for circa £15k this year, mostly nice ones around the 100k miles Mark, but it has dragged the others up a touch also.
The very nicest S2's are commanding close to this, but there are still lots of fairly priced S2's out there for £3-6k.
As MTR says, it does look like the ship is setting sail, but who knows how long it will last.
I bought and sold a very tidy 944S for less than £3k a couple of years back, but could see that the Turbo prices were starting to firm up last year - so I bought one while I could afford one.
Good luck
The very nicest S2's are commanding close to this, but there are still lots of fairly priced S2's out there for £3-6k.
As MTR says, it does look like the ship is setting sail, but who knows how long it will last.
I bought and sold a very tidy 944S for less than £3k a couple of years back, but could see that the Turbo prices were starting to firm up last year - so I bought one while I could afford one.
Good luck
This however, is very cheap, even before the price rises - could be well worth an enquiry.
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.asp?m=88550...
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.asp?m=88550...
Hallsy01 said:
This however, is very cheap, even before the price rises - could be well worth an enquiry.
https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.asp?m=88550...
I don't think it is. After spending £3,500 minimum on sorting all the faults, you're left with a 145k car for nigh on 7 grand. Better to find a low owner car with 100k or less with rotten sills.https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.asp?m=88550...
A 92k mile cobalt blue car with bridge was offered to me recently. I'd have bought it at £4k-it needed sills etc-but he valued it at £7500 as-was!
Rubystone, There are VERY few 944s out there that haven't had corrosion dealt with, or need it dealing with. They are 25-30 year old steel cars, and despite being among the most corrosion-free cars of their time they still get to an age where they need attention.
My argument is always that once you're in to bodywork, you're not really saving a lot if it's minor work or a major restoration. Say you only need the front painting for stonechips, the usual repairs to the front wing lower edges and rear wheel arches, a bit of metal replacing around the sills, and the little bits of corrosion around the tailgate latches, number plate lamps, the seams where the rear quarter joins the rear panel, and the boot wells. Add in a few parking dinks over 25 years and you are going to re-spray the car, aren't you?
Assuming the sills/suspension mount areas aren't completely shot, you are in for a bill of a certain amount for tidying the paint and bodywork on anything other than a concourse S2. Those would be £15K or more now.
You have to weigh the whole package up. With a clutch costing a grand, head gaskets needing attention, suspension, brakes and fuel lines at the end of their life, a full belt service including water pump and all the extras easily a grand, it's easy to spend a shedload of money on them. Buy the best, where someone else has done most of the work for you.
Fantastic cars, relatively cheap to run or restore by any standards, let alone Porsche, and still under-valued compared with lesser cars from old-school Fords to the newer mass-produced Porsches. Just a shame if they get stored away as investments, as they were built to be driven.
My argument is always that once you're in to bodywork, you're not really saving a lot if it's minor work or a major restoration. Say you only need the front painting for stonechips, the usual repairs to the front wing lower edges and rear wheel arches, a bit of metal replacing around the sills, and the little bits of corrosion around the tailgate latches, number plate lamps, the seams where the rear quarter joins the rear panel, and the boot wells. Add in a few parking dinks over 25 years and you are going to re-spray the car, aren't you?
Assuming the sills/suspension mount areas aren't completely shot, you are in for a bill of a certain amount for tidying the paint and bodywork on anything other than a concourse S2. Those would be £15K or more now.
You have to weigh the whole package up. With a clutch costing a grand, head gaskets needing attention, suspension, brakes and fuel lines at the end of their life, a full belt service including water pump and all the extras easily a grand, it's easy to spend a shedload of money on them. Buy the best, where someone else has done most of the work for you.
Fantastic cars, relatively cheap to run or restore by any standards, let alone Porsche, and still under-valued compared with lesser cars from old-school Fords to the newer mass-produced Porsches. Just a shame if they get stored away as investments, as they were built to be driven.
pcn1 said:
Its been many years since I sold my 944 S2 and have been out of the Porsche fold. Looking back I wish I had kept it, but that's another story.
I used to look at the ad's from time to time and thought the asking prices were starting to get silly so I stopped looking. 944/968 sellers trying to hang on the coat tails the 911 air cooled
However looking today, I get the feeling the asking prices have started to soften. Or am I mistaken ?
How many really good sub 100k Turbo's are for sale right now ? I don't see prices on those softening up any time soon I used to look at the ad's from time to time and thought the asking prices were starting to get silly so I stopped looking. 944/968 sellers trying to hang on the coat tails the 911 air cooled
However looking today, I get the feeling the asking prices have started to soften. Or am I mistaken ?
.F
pauljmcnulty said:
Rubystone, There are VERY few 944s out there that haven't had corrosion dealt with, or need it dealing with. They are 25-30 year old steel cars, and despite being among the most corrosion-free cars of their time they still get to an age where they need attention.
My argument is always that once you're in to bodywork, you're not really saving a lot if it's minor work or a major restoration. Say you only need the front painting for stonechips, the usual repairs to the front wing lower edges and rear wheel arches, a bit of metal replacing around the sills, and the little bits of corrosion around the tailgate latches, number plate lamps, the seams where the rear quarter joins the rear panel, and the boot wells. Add in a few parking dinks over 25 years and you are going to re-spray the car, aren't you?
Assuming the sills/suspension mount areas aren't completely shot, you are in for a bill of a certain amount for tidying the paint and bodywork on anything other than a concourse S2. Those would be £15K or more now.
You have to weigh the whole package up. With a clutch costing a grand, head gaskets needing attention, suspension, brakes and fuel lines at the end of their life, a full belt service including water pump and all the extras easily a grand, it's easy to spend a shedload of money on them. Buy the best, where someone else has done most of the work for you.
Fantastic cars, relatively cheap to run or restore by any standards, let alone Porsche, and still under-valued compared with lesser cars from old-school Fords to the newer mass-produced Porsches. Just a shame if they get stored away as investments, as they were built to be driven.
Paul, I totally agree. And I am glad you value cars like my mint, original, non rusty, non rotten suspension mount, non rotten brake master cylinder car at £15k. The market doesn't agree with you though. Only turbos normally fetch that money (aside from Paul Rudd's car). My argument is always that once you're in to bodywork, you're not really saving a lot if it's minor work or a major restoration. Say you only need the front painting for stonechips, the usual repairs to the front wing lower edges and rear wheel arches, a bit of metal replacing around the sills, and the little bits of corrosion around the tailgate latches, number plate lamps, the seams where the rear quarter joins the rear panel, and the boot wells. Add in a few parking dinks over 25 years and you are going to re-spray the car, aren't you?
Assuming the sills/suspension mount areas aren't completely shot, you are in for a bill of a certain amount for tidying the paint and bodywork on anything other than a concourse S2. Those would be £15K or more now.
You have to weigh the whole package up. With a clutch costing a grand, head gaskets needing attention, suspension, brakes and fuel lines at the end of their life, a full belt service including water pump and all the extras easily a grand, it's easy to spend a shedload of money on them. Buy the best, where someone else has done most of the work for you.
Fantastic cars, relatively cheap to run or restore by any standards, let alone Porsche, and still under-valued compared with lesser cars from old-school Fords to the newer mass-produced Porsches. Just a shame if they get stored away as investments, as they were built to be driven.
Rubystone - it was £2k when I posted. He has since increased his price.
I still think it's a good price, any 944 you buy that hasn't had the sills replaced recently to a good standard will need them doing, apart from the odd garage queen.
So you have to factor that cost in no matter what imo, unless you don't plan to keep it long.
I sold my 944S as an MOT failure for £2500 in October last year - so I felt that £2k for a comparable S2 currently, was cheap.
My S was mint and had a bit less mileage, but still failed on sills. It was minor bubbling along lower edge (rear inner area has been repaired before), and new owner had them repaired (not full sill) quite cheaply.
I still think it's a good price, any 944 you buy that hasn't had the sills replaced recently to a good standard will need them doing, apart from the odd garage queen.
So you have to factor that cost in no matter what imo, unless you don't plan to keep it long.
I sold my 944S as an MOT failure for £2500 in October last year - so I felt that £2k for a comparable S2 currently, was cheap.
My S was mint and had a bit less mileage, but still failed on sills. It was minor bubbling along lower edge (rear inner area has been repaired before), and new owner had them repaired (not full sill) quite cheaply.
Hallsy, I guess one has to think about what a 145k high owner car might be worth at the end of that. Perhaps £6k? The car is £3k, right?. I know that the owner will spend a minimum of £3500 on the car on service items, welding, paint and interior rectification.
So at the end of it he has a car worth less than market price. Now he may not be concerned about that, which is great. Or he may be buying it purely to make money. Which he may not end up doing. That's all I'm trying to say. Simple economics to me says that at £2k one could wipe one's face. At £3k one might not.
So at the end of it he has a car worth less than market price. Now he may not be concerned about that, which is great. Or he may be buying it purely to make money. Which he may not end up doing. That's all I'm trying to say. Simple economics to me says that at £2k one could wipe one's face. At £3k one might not.
It's just so hard to say what the cost will be. There's a huge difference between the cost of DIY or getting a specialist to do it, and the rates in different parts of the country vary so much. Everyone would want to finish it to a different standard, and you really don't know how long the list will be until it's in bits.
For £3K you have a car that's got a documented engine overhaul at £2800, plus loads of other work. Decent interior, tyres etc., it's really only the bodywork and a re-spray that's needed from the look of it. Put in £3500 and it could well be worth more to someone.
My point is that a £5K or £7K S2 will probably need some bodywork and some paint, as at that price they are unlikely to have been comprehensively restored. This will not cost a lot less than one with more serious rot, within reason.
I think you'll always be pushed to recoup what you put in to restoring an old car, certainly not on a relatively cheap old Porsche: that's not the reason to do it.
For £3K you have a car that's got a documented engine overhaul at £2800, plus loads of other work. Decent interior, tyres etc., it's really only the bodywork and a re-spray that's needed from the look of it. Put in £3500 and it could well be worth more to someone.
My point is that a £5K or £7K S2 will probably need some bodywork and some paint, as at that price they are unlikely to have been comprehensively restored. This will not cost a lot less than one with more serious rot, within reason.
I think you'll always be pushed to recoup what you put in to restoring an old car, certainly not on a relatively cheap old Porsche: that's not the reason to do it.
From what I've seen a small number of well preserved and presented relatively low mileage Turbo's have sold for £14k+ recently. I don't think the high mileage basket cases that have been rolled in glitter will have the same cachet to the speculators that wouldn't have looked twice at a 944 a couple of years ago. Tread carefully.
blade7 said:
From what I've seen a small number of well preserved and presented relatively low mileage Turbo's have sold for £14k+ recently. I don't think the high mileage basket cases that have been rolled in glitter will have the same cachet to the speculators that wouldn't have looked twice at a 944 a couple of years ago. Tread carefully.
Spot on. A high miles high owner car is not the sort of car a speculator will naturally be drawn to. As a result, the lesser csrs will be dragged up off of the back of the blue chip cars, but when the market softens, they're the ones to drop first. Mind you. I cannot understand why that Cat C turbo sold second time around. It's on the register and is now famous in Internet circles!
I was surprised that it sold for top money, but not that it sold.
The accident was many years ago and according to those who'd seen it in the metal it drove like new, and was in exceptional condition.
You're right about the top-end collectors being focussed on low miles and originality. Hopefully the rest are being used as intended.
The accident was many years ago and according to those who'd seen it in the metal it drove like new, and was in exceptional condition.
You're right about the top-end collectors being focussed on low miles and originality. Hopefully the rest are being used as intended.
pauljmcnulty said:
I was surprised that it sold for top money, but not that it sold.
The accident was many years ago and according to those who'd seen it in the metal it drove like new, and was in exceptional condition.
You're right about the top-end collectors being focussed on low miles and originality. Hopefully the rest are being used as intended.
It was written off 3 years from new. That would have been a substantial shunt. The newer the car the more damage required to write it off, given the residual value in the car.The accident was many years ago and according to those who'd seen it in the metal it drove like new, and was in exceptional condition.
You're right about the top-end collectors being focussed on low miles and originality. Hopefully the rest are being used as intended.
If it had been written off 20 years after build, then the reason may well have been for relatively minor panel damage and it could have been a good buy.
For that reason I wouldn't have touched it. And I am sure I'm not alone!!!!
Mind you, I witnessed a 3.2 Clubsport rolled into a ball on its debut in the Giroflex series at Brands in1987. I am sure that car is on the road 28 years later without the owner being aware of its history.
And I have personally seen 3 996 GT3RS have heavy hits during my track day years...
The point is, you don't have to spend the £3.5k that a full sill rebuild will cost, some people will happily have a partial repair of the sill and the paintwork blended in for less. You're also assuming that the job wouldn't be DIY'd.
The car was originally up for £2k, most people buying a car at that price will not spend £3.5k dealing with bodywork issues. More than likely they will spend £500 getting a localised repair and be happy if it lasts a couple of years.
Likewise, as I said before, without evidence of a good repair or thorough internal inspection, your average £6k S2 cold well need the sills doing a year later anyway.
I agree though that a high mileage S2 Would probably not make more than £5k, only the best S2's seem to be making good money.
But different with the Turbo's though, there are so few for sale that if someone really wants one they will have to pay the price to a certain extent.
The car was originally up for £2k, most people buying a car at that price will not spend £3.5k dealing with bodywork issues. More than likely they will spend £500 getting a localised repair and be happy if it lasts a couple of years.
Likewise, as I said before, without evidence of a good repair or thorough internal inspection, your average £6k S2 cold well need the sills doing a year later anyway.
I agree though that a high mileage S2 Would probably not make more than £5k, only the best S2's seem to be making good money.
But different with the Turbo's though, there are so few for sale that if someone really wants one they will have to pay the price to a certain extent.
rubystone said:
I cannot understand why that Cat C turbo sold second time around. It's on the register and is now famous in Internet circles!
Maybe the new owner hasn't got a computer or the car was destined for another plate change and a long boat trip. I believe the gearbox and turbo had been downgraded, which sounds like corners were cut on it's repair or upkeep. At least it was well polished... blade7 said:
Maybe the new owner hasn't got a computer or the car was destined for another plate change and a long boat trip. I believe the gearbox and turbo had been downgraded, which sounds like corners were cut on it's repair or upkeep. At least it was well polished...
Ah yes..a trip to Oz...the land of 49,000 mile 308s and cars with history of the wrong type...it did indeed look shiny...Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff