Refund on a lemon Mondeo
Discussion
Hi all
Hopefully this is the best place to post this.
Last Saturday (8 days ago) I bought a 2007 Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X on 89000 miles from a small car dealer in West London using a finance company to pay for it. Test drove it and all seemed fine.
Cut to last Tuesday and I notice a small oil leak from the bottom of the engine. I rang the dealer and they agreed to look at it. I dropped off the car on Thursday and they rang me Saturday morning saying it was all fixed ready to collect. So Saturday afternoon I jump on a train and head over to collect the car. All seems good when I get there, I took the keys and drive off thanking them for fixing it with no hassle.
Few miles down the road the engine light comes and the car goes into LIMP mode and the turbo is not working. I turn the car around and go straight back to the dealer to complain. The dealer don't have an actual repair garage onsite, instead they use a company that is a few roads away, no biggy. He says he will ring the garage and tell me I'm coming and that he is to look at it again. So I head over to the garage and the guy there plugs in his computer to pull the fault code. He gets P2263, turbo actuator stuck open. He cleared and pretty much sent me on my way saying it is fixed!? I reluctantly drove off down the road to see if the problem was still there, and find that of course nothing has been fixed, the turbo is still not kicking in so I went right back to the garage again telling him that he had not fixed the problem at all. At this point he lost any interest in fixing it and told me that I had to go back to the dealer and leave it with them, that I could not leave the car with him. Starting to get increasingly angry, I drove back to the dealer but found that they had closed for the day. Great....
So my only choice was to limp the car back home and call them again on Monday, at this point I'm fuming.
Anyway, today I called the local mechanic to look at the car, as I wanted to know what was REALLY wrong with it. Turns out that the turbo is clogged up with carbon, and might need replacing. However worst of all the DMF is on its way out, and would cost £1500 to replace. Turbo replacement is also big money, £1K ish. So 8 days after ownership, I'm faced with 2K+ of repair bills to get it running.
So obviously I want my money back on the car now. What I want help with is the best course of action to get my money back as quickly and with the least amount of resistance as possible. I've called the garage already and they said they would 'Call me back tomorrow'. Spoken to the fiance company explaining exactly what has happened and that I want to a refund on the car and they are looking into it. They said they can ask for it back themselves, applying extra pressure on the dealer.
Is there anything else I can do? Where do I stand legally and how do I make sure the garage don't worm there way out of responsibility of it.
Thanks
Hopefully this is the best place to post this.
Last Saturday (8 days ago) I bought a 2007 Mondeo 2.0 TDCI Titanium X on 89000 miles from a small car dealer in West London using a finance company to pay for it. Test drove it and all seemed fine.
Cut to last Tuesday and I notice a small oil leak from the bottom of the engine. I rang the dealer and they agreed to look at it. I dropped off the car on Thursday and they rang me Saturday morning saying it was all fixed ready to collect. So Saturday afternoon I jump on a train and head over to collect the car. All seems good when I get there, I took the keys and drive off thanking them for fixing it with no hassle.
Few miles down the road the engine light comes and the car goes into LIMP mode and the turbo is not working. I turn the car around and go straight back to the dealer to complain. The dealer don't have an actual repair garage onsite, instead they use a company that is a few roads away, no biggy. He says he will ring the garage and tell me I'm coming and that he is to look at it again. So I head over to the garage and the guy there plugs in his computer to pull the fault code. He gets P2263, turbo actuator stuck open. He cleared and pretty much sent me on my way saying it is fixed!? I reluctantly drove off down the road to see if the problem was still there, and find that of course nothing has been fixed, the turbo is still not kicking in so I went right back to the garage again telling him that he had not fixed the problem at all. At this point he lost any interest in fixing it and told me that I had to go back to the dealer and leave it with them, that I could not leave the car with him. Starting to get increasingly angry, I drove back to the dealer but found that they had closed for the day. Great....
So my only choice was to limp the car back home and call them again on Monday, at this point I'm fuming.
Anyway, today I called the local mechanic to look at the car, as I wanted to know what was REALLY wrong with it. Turns out that the turbo is clogged up with carbon, and might need replacing. However worst of all the DMF is on its way out, and would cost £1500 to replace. Turbo replacement is also big money, £1K ish. So 8 days after ownership, I'm faced with 2K+ of repair bills to get it running.
So obviously I want my money back on the car now. What I want help with is the best course of action to get my money back as quickly and with the least amount of resistance as possible. I've called the garage already and they said they would 'Call me back tomorrow'. Spoken to the fiance company explaining exactly what has happened and that I want to a refund on the car and they are looking into it. They said they can ask for it back themselves, applying extra pressure on the dealer.
Is there anything else I can do? Where do I stand legally and how do I make sure the garage don't worm there way out of responsibility of it.
Thanks
How has your mechanic determined the DMF is on the way out and the turbo is coked up?
With the DMF if you've not noticed any clutch judder, noise etc then the only way to tell is to get the gearbox off and check it. The turbo will be easier but would still need to be physically inspected. Just saying it's as well to be sure as it might be a simple fix and your local guy might be having you over in the hope he can fix it.
The turbo actuator failing is a common thing on the TDCi Mondeos and it can be rebuilt for less than £200.
If you're looking to reject it they have the right to repair or refund, AFAIK you can't just demand a refund without giving them the chance to fix it.
With the DMF if you've not noticed any clutch judder, noise etc then the only way to tell is to get the gearbox off and check it. The turbo will be easier but would still need to be physically inspected. Just saying it's as well to be sure as it might be a simple fix and your local guy might be having you over in the hope he can fix it.
The turbo actuator failing is a common thing on the TDCi Mondeos and it can be rebuilt for less than £200.
If you're looking to reject it they have the right to repair or refund, AFAIK you can't just demand a refund without giving them the chance to fix it.
There is a judder when the car is in Neutral and the clutch is up. As for the turbo, that's what he thinks is wrong with it.
"On inspection of your car today it presented the following issues:
After start up and slight increase of throttle, the Management fault light and skid control warning light come on and the management system enter "limp mode" with reduced power.
Fault code triggered indicate a fault with the turbo actuator: this could be due to a fault with the variable vine system on the turbo, a fault with the actuator or a wiring fault. The above require full investigation be fore parts are fitted.
It is possible that the variable vine are stuck due to carbon build up and require cleaning / use of cleaning additives and road testing.
I would also like to bring to your attention that there is some oil leaking from the air intake pipe in several places, including a large amount of oil around the EGR / Throttle flap, also when the engine running there is a high level of oil vapor in the crankcase which is causing oil to build up in the intake pipes, hoses and inter-cooler system.
I noted that the engine runs roughly at idle, and often their is a audible heavy knocking noise that could indicate a worn duel-mass flywheel, this noise goes and the engine idle becomes slightly smoother when the clutch is pressed fully to the floor. I can see that this engine has recently had a replacement starter motor fitted, this seems to be quite recent as there is a large amount of rusty powder around the bell / clutch housing area, engine bay, but not much on the starter itself. This again is an indication that the fly wheel is worn and could soon present an issue.
I would recommend a full and deeper inspection of the above.
I would also recommend a brake inspection as when viewed through the road wheels, the front pads appear low, the discs are corroded and pitted + the pad is not in full contact with the disc due to this corroded area of disc, and the rear pads look low, and the discs are slightly pitted."
"On inspection of your car today it presented the following issues:
After start up and slight increase of throttle, the Management fault light and skid control warning light come on and the management system enter "limp mode" with reduced power.
Fault code triggered indicate a fault with the turbo actuator: this could be due to a fault with the variable vine system on the turbo, a fault with the actuator or a wiring fault. The above require full investigation be fore parts are fitted.
It is possible that the variable vine are stuck due to carbon build up and require cleaning / use of cleaning additives and road testing.
I would also like to bring to your attention that there is some oil leaking from the air intake pipe in several places, including a large amount of oil around the EGR / Throttle flap, also when the engine running there is a high level of oil vapor in the crankcase which is causing oil to build up in the intake pipes, hoses and inter-cooler system.
I noted that the engine runs roughly at idle, and often their is a audible heavy knocking noise that could indicate a worn duel-mass flywheel, this noise goes and the engine idle becomes slightly smoother when the clutch is pressed fully to the floor. I can see that this engine has recently had a replacement starter motor fitted, this seems to be quite recent as there is a large amount of rusty powder around the bell / clutch housing area, engine bay, but not much on the starter itself. This again is an indication that the fly wheel is worn and could soon present an issue.
I would recommend a full and deeper inspection of the above.
I would also recommend a brake inspection as when viewed through the road wheels, the front pads appear low, the discs are corroded and pitted + the pad is not in full contact with the disc due to this corroded area of disc, and the rear pads look low, and the discs are slightly pitted."
OK so all he has actually said is "this is possibly the problem, but it needs investigating". Lemon is a bit strong, it's done 90k so a DMF at that mileage is just wear and tear and the actuator issue is very common. Not that I'm saying you should be stuck with having to fix them, but it's just pretty standard used car stuff.
You're doing the right thing getting it back to the supplying dealer but as I've said I'm pretty sure they have the right to fix it or refund you at their discretion. Best of luck
You're doing the right thing getting it back to the supplying dealer but as I've said I'm pretty sure they have the right to fix it or refund you at their discretion. Best of luck
The DMF on my TDCI Mondeo failed at less than 80K miles, three weeks after I bought it. It's a pretty standard part to need replacing at that sort of age.
I had a mate replace mine and it only cost £1,200 at the time (including clutch and slave cylinder), maybe prices have fallen further since then.
Either way, my next Mondeo was petrol and has given me no bother up to 93K and delivers 40mpg on a steady run. I won't rush back to the diesel...
Good luck getting yours fixed!
I had a mate replace mine and it only cost £1,200 at the time (including clutch and slave cylinder), maybe prices have fallen further since then.
Either way, my next Mondeo was petrol and has given me no bother up to 93K and delivers 40mpg on a steady run. I won't rush back to the diesel...
Good luck getting yours fixed!
Full clutch kit and dmf parts are only around 300/400 aren't they? I'm pretty sure we have done them at work ? I appreciate there would then be labour on top.
As for the turbo actuator I suspect they have taken a look and tried to clean/ free it. Something will be sticking. It just needs to be replaced. That is the approach I would take and if the garage do it I would be satisfied.
As for the turbo actuator I suspect they have taken a look and tried to clean/ free it. Something will be sticking. It just needs to be replaced. That is the approach I would take and if the garage do it I would be satisfied.
Retroman said:
The DMF on my Ibiza had a slight vibration at Idle when i bought it in July 2013.
2 years and 21k miles later it's gotten worse but still driveable.
This, we have a dog "pool" car Mondeo, 2007 with lots of miles and interesting smells to go with it. We were told the minor judder in neutral was a new DMF needed about 2years ago by a Ford main dealer, it still works fine, the judder is getting a bit worse but it is still completely useable even after 15k miles or so.2 years and 21k miles later it's gotten worse but still driveable.
lostkiwi said:
Your best line of attack, is the sale of goods act.
Since you bought from s dealer this will apply.
The relevant section deals with goods being of merchantable quality and being fit for purpose.
Google it - plenty of good information on the net.
This always comes up when issues like this are posted.Since you bought from s dealer this will apply.
The relevant section deals with goods being of merchantable quality and being fit for purpose.
Google it - plenty of good information on the net.
It's an 8-year-old car with 89K on the clock and the issues OP is describing can be argued to be wear and tear items.
Best hope is that the dealer makes a contribution to the repairs, but shoving SOGA in his face when it's unlikely to apply in this case is not going to do OP any favours.
The rough idle could be the car trying to regen - mine is noticeable when stationary (as well as the cloud of smoke due to the turbo oil feed pipe leaking a bit).
Mine (2.2) when I bought it also had an almost completely blocked EGR pipe where it meets the inlet, there was only a 10-15mm hole (out of 50-60mm) that wasn't gummed up.
Mine (2.2) when I bought it also had an almost completely blocked EGR pipe where it meets the inlet, there was only a 10-15mm hole (out of 50-60mm) that wasn't gummed up.
As far as I understand the turbo isn't kicking in still? You can argue the rest is wear n tear , but I the Sales Of Goods act would warrant the turbo to work every time the car is driven!
Contact the dealer again, get them to look at it again. If it fails again I would argue that they have had satisfactory time to fix it and would want a refund.
Contact the dealer again, get them to look at it again. If it fails again I would argue that they have had satisfactory time to fix it and would want a refund.
I'm going to take a wild guess here, and there is a tiny possibility I am wrong however from the tone of your OP I'm guessing you've got the dealer's back up by getting angry and they're going to send you on your way and refuse to help.
You bought a cheap car, which had done a lot of miles, on finance, as such as you ready to spend a lot of money on going legal which is likely your only possible chance of recourse if he decides your attitude is letting you down.
You bought a cheap car, which had done a lot of miles, on finance, as such as you ready to spend a lot of money on going legal which is likely your only possible chance of recourse if he decides your attitude is letting you down.
Grahamr123 said:
He cleared and pretty much sent me on my way saying it is fixed!? I reluctantly drove off down the road to see if the problem was still there, and find that of course nothing has been fixed, the turbo is still not kicking in so I went right back to the garage again telling him that he had not fixed the problem at all. At this point he lost any interest in fixing it and told me that I had to go back to the dealer and leave it with them, that I could not leave the car with him.
<snip>
Starting to get increasingly angry,
<snip>
at this point I'm fuming.
<snip>
Anyway, today I called the local mechanic to look at the car, as I wanted to know what was REALLY wrong with it.
<snip>
Starting to get increasingly angry,
<snip>
at this point I'm fuming.
<snip>
Anyway, today I called the local mechanic to look at the car, as I wanted to know what was REALLY wrong with it.
Centurion07 said:
lostkiwi said:
Your best line of attack, is the sale of goods act.
Since you bought from s dealer this will apply.
The relevant section deals with goods being of merchantable quality and being fit for purpose.
Google it - plenty of good information on the net.
This always comes up when issues like this are posted.Since you bought from s dealer this will apply.
The relevant section deals with goods being of merchantable quality and being fit for purpose.
Google it - plenty of good information on the net.
It's an 8-year-old car with 89K on the clock and the issues OP is describing can be argued to be wear and tear items.
Best hope is that the dealer makes a contribution to the repairs, but shoving SOGA in his face when it's unlikely to apply in this case is not going to do OP any favours.
The DMF would be more uncertain - it's not (at the moment) causing the car to cease to function.
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