Michelin Sport Cups - best conditions.

[Andiroo]

Hey guys,

I know these are the bollox for dry trackdays, but what are they like in cold or semi damp conditions, especially now I have a big lump behind me? Do they lose grip in stages or is it progressive?

On the fronts, 235/40/18 (I took the smaller size for the rims for better turn-in), and on the rear I have the 295/30/18's, which may be replaced with the 315's pretty soon.

Also, general road driving, do they last OK ie. more than 4k miles?

Appreciate any comments,

Andiroo

[Thom]

They are very good once taken to the right temperature. Anywhere below the correct temp they are not good, even in the dry.

[vic cohen]

Totally agree with THOM................I have 235 and 285 on similar piece of kit to piccies i ve seen of urs .............abt 550 bhp, 2 wheel drive ,on a slippery circuit like Donington in the wet virtually undriveable on Cup Sports .........drove same car to work yesterday on Pirrelli Rossos, no worry .
I am abt to try the Dunlop supersport race , which i have had good experience with on a car with abt 2/3 the power ...........superb on smaller car all weathers .
Used my cup sports on the road ,to and from track days ,can be fine , but its the heat cycles that take thier toll rather than the pure wear

[cuneus]

Progressive ? well sort of

Cold and wet

I personally would never use them as a year round road tyre

[Andiroo]

Thanks guys, thats what I was thinking - although I hope we can still get plenty of heat even on a cold dry day - let's hope Oultons dry

Hey Vic, ran the Dunlop Race tyres on my previous project, and yes they are superb in 18' size - althought from my experience just as bad as what you reckon with the Cups in semi damp/wet conditions - they were awful.

Glad to hear they should be sort of OK on the road, but maybe I should take the slicks off the spares and put some Michelin PS2's or Mrs Lennon AVS's (cracking tyre IMHO)?

Andiroo

[vic cohen]

i think there is more than one compound for the Dunlops , i am on 18" these days , asked for wets with reasonable dry grip and reasonable wear ....only small road us [today just to keep car moving a bit in winter] and abt 95% track day .I use this machine for wet days when i am toooooooooooo chicken to take the turbo out !!

[vic cohen]

Soory forgot ...........last time i tried the Yokos was on 15 " rims with 3 0 rs ............by the ned they were the only people making the size .........good in dry, ok wet, by comparison to what we ve been talking abt lasted for ever but then only 230 bhp /abt 930 kgs!

[PhilRS]

Also agree with what has been said above. Have had both Michelin Cups and Pirelli Corsas on 964RSs. Found the Michelin to be excellent at the right temperature (which they will hold thereafter) while corsas kept heating up (with same chassis settings and outside temps). If not at the right temp, Cup lost traction faster than Corsas, increasing braking distances and confusing the RS ABS...

[tony.t]

In my experience

As far as cold and damp goes MPSCs are drivable and the loss of grip is fairly progressive albeit they have very little grip to start with - they are substantialy worse than standard road tyres in these conditions. Braking seems particularly poor as there is no bite at all.
In the wet they are unsafe as they lose grip suddenly and totaly.
MPSCs are great when they are hot and don't tend to overheat. The key is getting them hot in the first place. IMO they are designed for a 1400kg car driven hard in track temps over 7degC. The colder it is the more difficult it is to reach optimium temps, especially in a light car that doesn't work the tyres as hard. Damp acts as a coolant, latent heat of evaporation, so they won't reach temps. ( unless you're a maniac in a heavy car)

[Andiroo]

Thanks for the feedback guys

Andiroo

[Thom]

Just thought I would post a pic of what a rear MPSC looks like after only two "moderately fast" track days.



(car is a 944 TCup).

[vic cohen]

Looks familiar, reminds me of warm sunny days !

[Andiroo]

Yup, that's just the state my Dunlop Race's on the RS4 where in after a good session at Croft

Andiroo

[johnny senna]

Andiroo said:

Yup, that's just the state my Dunlop Race's on the RS4 where in after a good session at Croft Andiroo

Hey Andiroo,

I notice you are from Durham. I'm in Newcastle. I was thinking of going to track days at Croft on 1 or 2 of the following dates:

9 April
1 May
19 June
2 July
25 July (BMW Car Club day)
21 August
15 October

Do you fancy any of those dates?



Edited to say.....mind you, I wonder if your car is actually allowed on normal track days, it's surely not road legal? Do you normally stick to test days?

>> Edited by johnny senna on Friday 28th January 15:54

[Andiroo]

LOL, to be honest mate, probably all of them - Croft is my fave circuit, and the most local - just love it. Actually joined the BMWCC in 2003 just for their Croft day, got driver of the day award in an RS4

I'm afraid she is well and truly OK for all trackdays, and she is fully road legal, MOT, Tax, Insurance etc, and I have special diffuser baffles for noise limits - should be fun....

Just let me know which ones your going to and I will be there holidays permitting.

Andiroo

[johnny senna]

[redacted]

[Andiroo]

johnny senna said:

I will let you know which Croft days I book. I'll grab you at Vmax for a chat.

Cool mate, I will do the same, and look forward to a chat at Vmax.

Btw got Oulton on the 5th March and Silverstone on the 29th March if you fancy joining us?

Andiroo

[johnny senna]

Andiroo said:

johnny senna said: I will let you know which Croft days I book. I'll grab you at Vmax for a chat. Cool mate, I will do the same, and look forward to a chat at Vmax. Btw got Oulton on the 5th March and Silverstone on the 29th March if you fancy joining us? Andiroo

To be fair....I want to go to Croft at least twice before venturing to circuits I know less well. I know Croft really well you see, and I have hardly driven the RS. I reckon if I went to Oulton now, I'd crash. (Even though I have driven there twice, but the last car was a bit more, well, forgiving):

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=48&t=111412&h=0&hw=boxster+reckon

[Andiroo]

I can understand how you feel with it being a new car to you mate.

Marshals in the pit lane before @ Oulton have always been cool in the past with me - only waving me on when the pit straight is clear, never had any very close traffic, and I'm a firm advocate of a slow warm up lap - but always felt uncomfortable gunning full pelt so to speak...........

Suppose we should start a different thread, but one of the reasons my current project "is what it is" can be easily summed up as follows;

1)Andy spends 22k on an Evo Integrale Cat, spends another 15k on it, trackdays galore, always wanting more power or grip, sells it two years later for 14k.

2)Andy spends 41k on an Cerbera 4.5, spends another 8k on it, trackdays galore, always wanting more power and especially the ability to turn corners faster than a Micra, sells it two years later for 22k.

3)Andy spends 52k on an RS4 Avant, spends another 45k on it, trackdays galore, strips it out, always wanting more power or better handling, company forced into liquidation, baby taken away and sold for £22k.

Andy, being a slightly cunning fox, manages to get all his money back after a year of turmoil, and changes his thought process away from 1)2)3) and goes for a different angle;

4) A racing car that has good history, nice power that can be bettered, grip and handling like you wouldn't believe, and the ability to be changed into a road legal car for next to nothing. So basically with all that wasted money in the above points, I could have had my current car instead of 1). I must be bonkers.....

Andiroo



>> Edited by Andiroo on Saturday 29th January 00:04

[johnny senna]

Andiroo said:

I can understand how you feel with it being a new car to you mate. Marshals in the pit lane before @ Oulton have always been cool in the past with me - only waving me on when the pit straight is clear, never had any very close traffic, and I'm a firm advocate of a slow warm up lap - but always felt uncomfortable gunning full pelt so to speak........... Suppose we should start a different thread, but one of the reasons my current project "is what it is" can be easily summed up as follows; 1)Andy spends 22k on an Evo Integrale Cat, spends another 15k on it, trackdays galore, always wanting more power or grip, sells it two years later for 14k. 2)Andy spends 41k on an Cerbera 4.5, spends another 8k on it, trackdays galore, always wanting more power and especially the ability to turn corners faster than a Micra, sells it two years later for 22k. 3)Andy spends 52k on an RS4 Avant, spends another 45k on it, trackdays galore, strips it out, always wanting more power or better handling, company forced into liquidation, baby taken away and sold for £22k. Andy, being a slightly cunning fox, manages to get all his money back after a year of turmoil, and changes his thought process away from 1)2)3) and goes for a different angle; 4) A racing car that has good history, nice power that can be bettered, grip and handling like you wouldn't believe, and the ability to be changed into a road legal car for next to nothing. So basically with all that wasted money in the above points, I could have had my current car instead of 1). I must be bonkers..... Andiroo >> Edited by Andiroo on Saturday 29th January 00:04

Holy crappy bugger. The Audi S4 story is particularly horrible.

I think your logic about buying a car that won't just depreciate like hell is a good idea. That was my way of thinking when I got the 993 RS. I am going to spend a fair bit of money on it, but I'm not going to suffer extreme ravages of depreciation. I lost 9 grand in a year on my Boxster S. Man, that hurts.