Fuel pump upgrade, again!

[phazed]

Does anyone know what the output of the OE fuel pump is and what it is capable of sustaining?

I am running a standard pump with 30lb injectors and as far as I can tell it is running OK'

My system runs MS and a standard regulator so there must be enough pressure to run the injectors at full chat I guess.

Out of interest, on the last TD I averaged just under 5mpg at as quick as I could manage.

Again, "I guess" thats delivering over one litre a minute.

So the question is, should I upgrade the pump?

If so, the cerb pump would be the next step up as far as I recall?

Anyone with experience on this?

[ukdj]

Peter,

Not sure exactly what you are running but assume it is probably a Bosch 0 580 464 xxx, These should help work it out ....


Bosch Fuel Pump Cross Reference

Bosch Fuel Pump Flow Rates

Bosch Fuel Pump Technical Specs

[griffdude]

Peter, did Jools say the engine was running lean at high revs when he mapped it? If not, I'd be inclined to leave the ££ towards the tyre/fuel fund.

[Sardonicus]

I would feel happier with a bit of a buffer quite frankly Peter cant have much left in reserve IMO was it not Daz that had a Cerbera pump fitted? best of both worlds quite and more volume rather than the usual Bosch 044 racket maker

[phazed]

griffdude said:

Peter, did Jools say the engine was running lean at high revs when he mapped it? If not, I'd be inclined to leave the ££ towards the tyre/fuel fund.

He said that it was fine.

The only observation was that full power was obtained at about v3/4 throttle. Heads he said were the restriction.

As I have just about the best RV8 heads then that must be it then!

My thinking is, could not the same thing occur if you couldn't get enough air down the inlet, (hose to the plenum)?

The whole map is a bit on the rich side, especially low down to dial out shunting as the cam is quite big, (solid 404).

[phazed]

Siomon. I think that is the best idea, got one in your cupboard?

[neal1980]

If I were you I would upgrade to a proper fuel swirl pot setup - esp as you like your track days.

Ive always used Bosch 044 and didnt notice any loudness but I did buy a decent mount.

Good time to swap all the hoses to AN6 as well.

(its so easy to spend someone elses money lol)

[carsy]

Agree with Simon.

I stuck one of these on mine. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYTEC-OTP020-Inline-Fuel...

Its what Power sells as a replacement for the Cerbera etc.

[Sardonicus]

Sytec stuff is alright I have fitted some of their stuff (customer supplied) over the years for other people no problem Neals got a point though Peter no fuel surge anymore with a dedicated swirl pot rather than the crude in tank jobbies

[phazed]

Sardonicus said:

Sytec stuff is alright I have fitted some of their stuff (customer supplied) over the years for other people no problem Neals got a point though Peter no fuel surge anymore with a dedicated swirl pot rather than the crude in tank jobbies

I know, I know. I was getting starvation with 35 miles on the clock after the tank was brimmed!

Crap tank
Super grippy tyres and high G's
Mad fuel consumption

!!!!!!!!

[ChimpOnGas]

phazed said:

If so, the cerb pump would be the next step up as far as I recall?

Anyone with experience on this?

I have a Cerb pump on 'Ol Gasbag', but I didn't fit it because of demand issues as 250 ponies on 250cc Vectra injectors is all she has to give

The reason for the change was fuel vaporisation, you see 'Ol Gasbag' has a small 5.5 gallon petrol tank and while most of the time I'm on gas so burning no petrol the fuel pump still runs continuously to facilitate immediate and seamless change overs between fuel types.

Many people don't realise the petrol tank in a return fuel injection system acts as an important heat sink, the store of fuel in the tank removes excessive heat from the hot incoming fuel. This returned fuel is hot because its firstly been compressed by the pump and then has to pass around the fuel rail which is subject to significant radiant engine & exhaust manifold heat.

By the time the fuel is returned it can be very hot indeed and with low boiling point ethanol content in forecourt petrol going up every year there's a real possibility of it turning from a liquid into a gas, this can be a real problem if you only have a small tank like me or you're not carrying much fuel in your standard tank. So I fitted the higher volume Cerbera pump to circulate what fuel there is a little faster and a fuel cooler taken from a BMW 3 series diesel.

Obviously fuel pressure remains the same as this is governed by the FPR not the pump, but shifting more volume with the Cerb pump and running it through a fuel cooler completely solved my vaporisation problem.

I appreciate the above is perhaps discussing a solution to a problem you don't have Peter, but it is food for thought and proved the Cerb pump works perfectly on anything from my lowly 250hp hybrid to a 400+hp Cerbera.

I've found the Cerb pump super quiet even stuck in traffic on the very hottest day, when typically a struggling vapor locked fuel pump will start to sequel. If volume is what you need to feed some big ol injectors and your thirsty monster engine I'd say you'd unlikely need anything more powerful than the Cerb pump.

Finally, from what I can see from the 044 specs you wouldn't really need one until you start knocking at the 600hp door.

Hope my odd Gas Bag story helps in some way?

Dave

[SILICONEKID345HP]

yes I have the Cerb pump ,not sure the part number ,It fits in the standard bracket if you want it to.

The 044 did not work for me ,just a bit of a overkill.

[phazed]

Thanks for all your input guys.

To recap.

Bosch 044 pump;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-100-GENUINE-BOSCH-04...

EBay server up rated pump, probably made in China.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-TUSCAN-CERBERA-GRIFF...

[phazed]

Or Powers;

http://www.powersperformance.co.uk/store/slug/fuel...

[Hoofa]

I went a different route, new tank made by pro alloy with In tank swirl pop, then fitted a in tank Walbro pump

Tank was filled with safety foam

Edited by Hoofa on Thursday 18th June 22:11

[Sardonicus]

phazed said:

Or Powers;

http://www.powersperformance.co.uk/store/slug/fuel...

I knew I had seen that brand before and I dont like rip off prices either see here http://www.glencoeltd.co.uk/hi-otp020-out-tank-fue...

[phazed]

Sardonicus said:

phazed said:

Or Powers;

http://www.powersperformance.co.uk/store/slug/fuel...

I knew I had seen that brand before and I dont like rip off prices either see here http://www.glencoeltd.co.uk/hi-otp020-out-tank-fue...

Is that the same spec as the cerb v8 pump?

[Sardonicus]

No, it flows more apparently and see here http://www.alexjudd.com/cerbera/parts/

[carsy]

Peter just be aware that if you go with the sytec as I did the oe bracket wont fit. You will need one of the fancy ones like I linked to. The pump is slightly bigger diameter wise. I just put a stainless plate the other side of the chassis rail and bolted the new clamp to that.

[phazed]

carsy said:

Peter just be aware that if you go with the sytec as I did the oe bracket wont fit. You will need one of the fancy ones like I linked to. The pump is slightly bigger diameter wise. I just put a stainless plate the other side of the chassis rail and bolted the new clamp to that.

Useful, thanks for the info!