Running-in CGTS
Discussion
RBT0 said:
yes this would be the only reason.
But if you drive in manual and keep revs below 5-6k it's fine.
I think I was told 4000 revs as a maximum - which I did for 1500 miles. The book says "high revs" - I would regard 6000 as high. I think it is more important not to let the engine labour, not to use full throttle or sustain high engine loads (combination of large throttle and highish revs) for long periods. You need to gradually increase the load/revs over the running in period. But if you drive in manual and keep revs below 5-6k it's fine.
But every new car I've owned has had vague instructions and it is difficult to make any definite statements.
Milnsey said:
Thanks for the input. It will be a long term keeper so I intend to run it in properly and then change oil at 1500 miles.
Excited now, one month to wait!
One poster was advised NOT to change the oil before it was due. The argument I've heard for that is that modern oils are so go that there is a danger that the engine won't be run in. You DO need some wear to complete the running process but I'm not sure whether I'm convinced one way or the other - but might be worth asking. From other postings it does seem to be the case that as the engine beds in oil consumption falls. So, in effect, extending the duration of the bedding in process by changing the oil early might not that good an idea.Excited now, one month to wait!
bcr5784 said:
One poster was advised NOT to change the oil before it was due. The argument I've heard for that is that modern oils are so go that there is a danger that the engine won't be run in. You DO need some wear to complete the running process but I'm not sure whether I'm convinced one way or the other - but might be worth asking. From other postings it does seem to be the case that as the engine beds in oil consumption falls. So, in effect, extending the duration of the bedding in process by changing the oil early might not that good an idea.
Mines booked in for a oil change and check over at the end of the month, it's now covered just under 2500 miles since my collection date on 1st March. I am just having it done for piece of mind really, as Ive always run my other cars in the same manor.
I work in car engine development, we test engines (without the car) in laboratories that can simulate a granny driving to the shops or a racing driver lapping the nurburgring and anything in between. Typically our clients (manufactures, not private individuals) are from the luxury/super car market.
It usually takes 40-50 hours to run an engine in. We run the engines over a wide range of speeds and loads, gently increasing them from 25-50% load to 100% load over the first 20 hours. Every 10 hours we run a power curve, its takes about 2hours to complete that! When two consecutive power curves match the engine is 'run-in'.
My basic advice to you has to be, drive the car to warm it up (don't sit on the drive way at idle) don't labour the engine or rev it to very high speeds in the first 10-20 hours. Give it the very occasional wide open throttle accel after 15 hours, but most of the time just drive it sensibly following the car in front. Basically; don't be a hooligan, be sensible, and your car will run in OK. If you choose PDK you can pretty much drive and forget (with the exception of using kick down) as the transmission ECU will make sure you neither labour or over rev the engine.
Manufacturing tolerances are so good now that the running in your Dad had to do on his 1978 Cortina is obsolete. Just keep an eye on the oil level (most cars do that for you these days) as it will use some in the first few thousand miles. The oil doesn't need changing at 2,500miles, it will easily cope with 20,000miles
It usually takes 40-50 hours to run an engine in. We run the engines over a wide range of speeds and loads, gently increasing them from 25-50% load to 100% load over the first 20 hours. Every 10 hours we run a power curve, its takes about 2hours to complete that! When two consecutive power curves match the engine is 'run-in'.
My basic advice to you has to be, drive the car to warm it up (don't sit on the drive way at idle) don't labour the engine or rev it to very high speeds in the first 10-20 hours. Give it the very occasional wide open throttle accel after 15 hours, but most of the time just drive it sensibly following the car in front. Basically; don't be a hooligan, be sensible, and your car will run in OK. If you choose PDK you can pretty much drive and forget (with the exception of using kick down) as the transmission ECU will make sure you neither labour or over rev the engine.
Manufacturing tolerances are so good now that the running in your Dad had to do on his 1978 Cortina is obsolete. Just keep an eye on the oil level (most cars do that for you these days) as it will use some in the first few thousand miles. The oil doesn't need changing at 2,500miles, it will easily cope with 20,000miles
engineermk said:
I work in car engine development, we test engines (without the car) in laboratories that can simulate a granny driving to the shops or a racing driver lapping the nurburgring and anything in between. Typically our clients (manufactures, not private individuals) are from the luxury/super car market.
It usually takes 40-50 hours to run an engine in. We run the engines over a wide range of speeds and loads, gently increasing them from 25-50% load to 100% load over the first 20 hours. Every 10 hours we run a power curve, its takes about 2hours to complete that! When two consecutive power curves match the engine is 'run-in'.
My basic advice to you has to be, drive the car to warm it up (don't sit on the drive way at idle) don't labour the engine or rev it to very high speeds in the first 10-20 hours. Give it the very occasional wide open throttle accel after 15 hours, but most of the time just drive it sensibly following the car in front. Basically; don't be a hooligan, be sensible, and your car will run in OK. If you choose PDK you can pretty much drive and forget (with the exception of using kick down) as the transmission ECU will make sure you neither labour or over rev the engine.
Manufacturing tolerances are so good now that the running in your Dad had to do on his 1978 Cortina is obsolete. Just keep an eye on the oil level (most cars do that for you these days) as it will use some in the first few thousand miles. The oil doesn't need changing at 2,500miles, it will easily cope with 20,000miles
Interesting, thanks. In your basic advice above, how should engine speed feature? When you say wide open throttle occasionally after 15 hours, are implying WOT to max revs occasionally? Or just WOT for a few secs below a certain engine speed? Could you also specify what you mean by occasionally e.g. once an hour?It usually takes 40-50 hours to run an engine in. We run the engines over a wide range of speeds and loads, gently increasing them from 25-50% load to 100% load over the first 20 hours. Every 10 hours we run a power curve, its takes about 2hours to complete that! When two consecutive power curves match the engine is 'run-in'.
My basic advice to you has to be, drive the car to warm it up (don't sit on the drive way at idle) don't labour the engine or rev it to very high speeds in the first 10-20 hours. Give it the very occasional wide open throttle accel after 15 hours, but most of the time just drive it sensibly following the car in front. Basically; don't be a hooligan, be sensible, and your car will run in OK. If you choose PDK you can pretty much drive and forget (with the exception of using kick down) as the transmission ECU will make sure you neither labour or over rev the engine.
Manufacturing tolerances are so good now that the running in your Dad had to do on his 1978 Cortina is obsolete. Just keep an eye on the oil level (most cars do that for you these days) as it will use some in the first few thousand miles. The oil doesn't need changing at 2,500miles, it will easily cope with 20,000miles
Edited by Mario149 on Monday 22 June 14:17
engineermk said:
If you choose PDK you can pretty much drive and forget (with the exception of using kick down) as the transmission ECU will make sure you neither labour or over rev the engine.
Interesting comments about PDK. Many of us with PDK are surprised what low revs are used on occasion. 7th down to 1100 or 1200 revs on occasion on light throttle. Some have suggested that is too low - and certainly, left to its own devices, it does allow the engine to labour - albeit very briefly, before changing down - if you try to maintain speed up an incline for example. Personally I anticipate that situation and manually change down. I would have thought that was particularly important when running in.Mario149 said:
One more thing on a slightly different note, what is the typical % increase in power over the running in period from the first power run you do to the final one?
Usually about 5%, occasionally as much as 10%You also need to bear in mind engine power outputs vary engine to engine (even if they are nominally the same unit). A top spec Cayman S engine could, theoretically, produce more power than a low spec GTS!
We also correct power figures for air temp and air pressure. An engine will produce more power on a cold high pressure day at sea level than it will on a warm day low day at high altitude.
Mario149 said:
Interesting, thanks. In your basic advice above, how should engine speed feature? When you say wide open throttle occasionally after 15 hours, are implying WOT to max revs occasionally? Or just WOT for a few secs below a certain engine speed? Could you also specify what you mean by occasionally e.g. once an hour?
Occasionally and how long... take a cross country road trip of an hour and overtake 3-4 times, use WOT to overtake, you'll run out of road before the engine is bothered. So change down, floor it, change up before you hit rev limiter, fall back in to queue of traffic.Edited by Mario149 on Monday 22 June 14:17
A good analogy, if your were going out for an hour's jog, you could afford to do a few sprints, but too many you'd be tired to quick; none, you'd be bored.
bcr5784 said:
Interesting comments about PDK. Many of us with PDK are surprised what low revs are used on occasion. 7th down to 1100 or 1200 revs on occasion on light throttle. Some have suggested that is too low - and certainly, left to its own devices, it does allow the engine to labour - albeit very briefly, before changing down - if you try to maintain speed up an incline for example. Personally I anticipate that situation and manually change down. I would have thought that was particularly important when running in.
If Porsche thought that was an issue they wouldn't let the car run like that... its OK.engineermk said:
An engine will produce more power on a cold high pressure day at sea level than it will on a warm day low day at high altitude.
Not true for Porsche turbo engines from 2006 onwards, they will adjust for ambient conditions to produce target torque numbers - with the exception of very warm days where the higher IAT after prolonged loading will mean reduced torque (for engine protection purposes) 
TB993tt said:
Not true for Porsche turbo engines from 2006 onwards, they will adjust for ambient conditions to produce target torque numbers - with the exception of very warm days where the higher IAT after prolonged loading will mean reduced torque (for engine protection purposes)
Yes I agree, I should have said a naturally aspirated engine has these characteristics. Engines with forced induction can compensate with in the limits of their boost control.engineermk said:
Yes I agree, I should have said a naturally aspirated engine has these characteristics. Engines with forced induction can compensate with in the limits of their boost control.
Most "dyno" operators still use the various correction factors (DIN/EWG 80/1269) when testing these turbo engines I find it quite fascinating to try get a definitive answer on the rights and wrongs of doing this.On an engine dyno which uses a water cooled intercooler to control (post turbo) intake temperature at a certain level (water temp can be taken into account by adjusting water flow) then it seems valid to use ambient temperature in a correction factor since the variation should be taken into account. Correction for pressure is a bit more difficult to justify as subject to the turbo running within its efficiency range the ambient pressure should be adjusted for by the ECU....
My engine guys use DIN 70020 and have done for many years it is integrated into their engine dyno software and weather station so they say all their build results are comparable they go on to say that they strive to match the HP readings Porsche quote and their set up replicates these well.
Occasionally a customer who has paid a lot of money for some big hp will insist that the engine is taken up the road to Weissach (in the back of a van) to be power tested by Porsche, they have always been pretty spot on......
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