Yet another Tax - Telegraph
Discussion
Just saw this in the Daily Telegraph....
'Land tax is 'back on Government agenda'
By Ian Cowie, Personal Finance Editor (Filed: 29/01/2005)
Accountants fear the Government is considering reintroducing some form of land value tax to raise revenue and encourage housebuilding after the general election.
George Bull, of accountants Baker Tilly, and John Whiting, of Price Waterhouse Coopers, said official reports on affordable housing suggest a revival of the 1970s Development Land Tax.
Unlike existing taxes that are imposed on income gained from land or gains realised when it is sold, they claim a new tax on unrealised gains is being contemplated. This would hit landowners who do not allow housing to be built on their property, such as Roland Coleman of Kent who was described as a "local hero" by neighbours this month after he refused a £4m offer to develop his fields near Rochester.
The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister's report, Sustainable Communities: Homes for All, published this week, said the Government accepted proposals in Kate Barker's report, Securing our Future Housing Needs.
Ms Barker, a member of the Bank of England's monetary policy committee, said in her report: "Land could be taxed according to its market value and land that had a high value and was therefore in greater demand for use would attract a higher tax liability to encourage its development or its most efficient use.
"Since the most profitable of these possible uses would often be residential development, this could increase the amount of land that landowners wish to sell for housing development."
Mr Bull said: "Most of the proposals are aimed at bare land, whether undeveloped or brownfield, but Ms Barker also seems to contemplate a wider form of taxation.
"This might be imposed, for example, on property owners who have enjoyed an uplift in values that can occur as a result of public investment."
Mr Whiting said: "It is not unreasonable to say that what is being proposed or at least considered is the revival of property taxes from long ago.
"The argument seems to be that when planning authorities give permission for development, there is a substantial increase in land values and the community ought to share in that.
"The Government has been thinking about reintroducing some form of development levy since extending the Jubilee Underground line into south-east London caused property prices to go up dramatically."
The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister referred questions to the Treasury which said it accepted Ms Barker's proposals in principle but a decision would be made by the end of this year. Ms Barker's report stated: "Land value taxes could be levied on all undeveloped or vacant land across the country or land allocated for development with outline planning permission or full permission.
"The combination of a potentially wide tax base and the fact that land is physically fixed, which makes avoidance and concealment of the asset and its tax liability very difficult, point to land value taxation as a good method of raising revenue without distorting behaviour."
Comments?????
'Land tax is 'back on Government agenda'
By Ian Cowie, Personal Finance Editor (Filed: 29/01/2005)
Accountants fear the Government is considering reintroducing some form of land value tax to raise revenue and encourage housebuilding after the general election.
George Bull, of accountants Baker Tilly, and John Whiting, of Price Waterhouse Coopers, said official reports on affordable housing suggest a revival of the 1970s Development Land Tax.
Unlike existing taxes that are imposed on income gained from land or gains realised when it is sold, they claim a new tax on unrealised gains is being contemplated. This would hit landowners who do not allow housing to be built on their property, such as Roland Coleman of Kent who was described as a "local hero" by neighbours this month after he refused a £4m offer to develop his fields near Rochester.
The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister's report, Sustainable Communities: Homes for All, published this week, said the Government accepted proposals in Kate Barker's report, Securing our Future Housing Needs.
Ms Barker, a member of the Bank of England's monetary policy committee, said in her report: "Land could be taxed according to its market value and land that had a high value and was therefore in greater demand for use would attract a higher tax liability to encourage its development or its most efficient use.
"Since the most profitable of these possible uses would often be residential development, this could increase the amount of land that landowners wish to sell for housing development."
Mr Bull said: "Most of the proposals are aimed at bare land, whether undeveloped or brownfield, but Ms Barker also seems to contemplate a wider form of taxation.
"This might be imposed, for example, on property owners who have enjoyed an uplift in values that can occur as a result of public investment."
Mr Whiting said: "It is not unreasonable to say that what is being proposed or at least considered is the revival of property taxes from long ago.
"The argument seems to be that when planning authorities give permission for development, there is a substantial increase in land values and the community ought to share in that.
"The Government has been thinking about reintroducing some form of development levy since extending the Jubilee Underground line into south-east London caused property prices to go up dramatically."
The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister referred questions to the Treasury which said it accepted Ms Barker's proposals in principle but a decision would be made by the end of this year. Ms Barker's report stated: "Land value taxes could be levied on all undeveloped or vacant land across the country or land allocated for development with outline planning permission or full permission.
"The combination of a potentially wide tax base and the fact that land is physically fixed, which makes avoidance and concealment of the asset and its tax liability very difficult, point to land value taxation as a good method of raising revenue without distorting behaviour."
Comments?????
ers. 
I think it's a great idea.
If you happen to be a worthless piece of communist sh1t and further believe the winter of discontent was an economically deisrable state of affairs.
This is the shade of policies to come and God help anyone with any form of, or aspiration to, acquire a decent asset base.
Filthy, loathesome deadbeats.
Where the hell is the concept of 'triangulation' when you need it most?
I fully appreciate any people wanting to leave the UK and although I've oft propogated the stand and fight mantra, if I wasn't up to my neck in quite so many fruit cake-based nuts, I have to acknowledge that with this constant erosion of incentive, I'd be looking at former colonial pastures new.
Certainly, if this lamentable shower of appeasing scum somehow regain control after the general election, it may have to form part of my longer term strategy.
I could genuinely weep.
If you happen to be a worthless piece of communist sh1t and further believe the winter of discontent was an economically deisrable state of affairs.
This is the shade of policies to come and God help anyone with any form of, or aspiration to, acquire a decent asset base.
Filthy, loathesome deadbeats.
Where the hell is the concept of 'triangulation' when you need it most?
I fully appreciate any people wanting to leave the UK and although I've oft propogated the stand and fight mantra, if I wasn't up to my neck in quite so many fruit cake-based nuts, I have to acknowledge that with this constant erosion of incentive, I'd be looking at former colonial pastures new.
Certainly, if this lamentable shower of appeasing scum somehow regain control after the general election, it may have to form part of my longer term strategy.
I could genuinely weep.
So, let me get this straight.
I have a large garden (say), and somebody offers to buy part of it to build on. I say sod off, It's my garden and I want it to stay that way, they go running to the Gummint saying that I have a building plot that I won't sell, so I now have to pay tax on my garden, is that it?
>> Edited by mrmaggit on Saturday 29th January 10:30
I have a large garden (say), and somebody offers to buy part of it to build on. I say sod off, It's my garden and I want it to stay that way, they go running to the Gummint saying that I have a building plot that I won't sell, so I now have to pay tax on my garden, is that it?
>> Edited by mrmaggit on Saturday 29th January 10:30
Of course they could clean up the less desireable areas of the country thus making them viable for ordinary people to live in. That would free up a lot of homes.
Oh dear, forgot, that would involve actually doing something as opposed to just taking our money and flushing it straight down the drain.
There is actually a large supply of cheaper houses in this country that are effectively kept of the market due to the government allowing the areas they are in to become virtually uninhabitable.
Remember all those council houses that Prescott was knocking down because no one wanted them?
Oh dear, forgot, that would involve actually doing something as opposed to just taking our money and flushing it straight down the drain.
There is actually a large supply of cheaper houses in this country that are effectively kept of the market due to the government allowing the areas they are in to become virtually uninhabitable.
Remember all those council houses that Prescott was knocking down because no one wanted them?
I'm amazed. Why is it that the better you do in life generally the more you become the outcast of society? With all the stuff that's going on right now I get more and more worried about leaving university and getting a job. Why? Because I think that as hard as it is living on a tiny budget I'll probably find that I'm better off now than I will be then, and the better I do in life the harder they will make it for me. Where is the logic in this?! I'm proud to be English but with every little thing that changes for the worse I become sadder at the direction this country is going. What's the next tax going to be? Being taxed for not claiming enough benefit? What about being taxed for not having loads of children? I know, what about taxing tax! Brilliant!
ginge said:
I'm amazed. Why is it that the better you do in life generally the more you become the outcast of society? With all the stuff that's going on right now I get more and more worried about leaving university and getting a job. Why? Because I think that as hard as it is living on a tiny budget I'll probably find that I'm better off now than I will be then, and the better I do in life the harder they will make it for me. Where is the logic in this?! I'm proud to be English but with every little thing that changes for the worse I become sadder at the direction this country is going. What's the next tax going to be? Being taxed for not claiming enough benefit? What about being taxed for not having loads of children? I know, what about taxing tax! Brilliant!
Its simple! like any other insecure government/dictatorship, the 'powers that be' are afraid of people with free thought, and intelligence to back their arguments up, we have a VERY insecure and covertly bullying government, and most of the population seem oblivious to this, they're happy as long as they have their Sky TV!!!
Are we actually allowed to aspire to anything any more? It seems that, not only are we discouraged from making money and spending it on things we like, it's as though we aren't actually allowed to own anything any more - even if you've paid your mortgage, they'll tax the land (and no doubt evict you from your own house if you refuse to pay), and soon you won't own your car - everything about it will be controlled by the government to the point where it becomes a self-drive New Labour taxi, and they seem to be able to take it away and wastefully crush it if they find anything wayward about your personal motoring styles.
I hate this country, and I don't know where to go. Maybe I hate the world now - is anyone allowed to actually enjoy themselves any more, or do everyone's governments make their minds up for them these days?
And can someone please explain how land taxation encourages housebuilding? It's like saying road charging would encourage driving.
I hate this country, and I don't know where to go. Maybe I hate the world now - is anyone allowed to actually enjoy themselves any more, or do everyone's governments make their minds up for them these days?
And can someone please explain how land taxation encourages housebuilding? It's like saying road charging would encourage driving.
A tax on unrealised capital gains for land is a pretty desperate idea, and is highly unlikely to be adopted by any political party in the UK. Even the Lib Dems would balk at it this kind of overt, punitive, social engineering.
As usual it is worth pointing out through all the doom and gloom that the UK's economy is growing strongly and has been doing so pretty much uninterrupted since Clark was Chancellor. Unemployment is also very low. These aren't government lies, they are simple economic facts. The UK economy does have strains, IMHO the effect of rampant housing market inflation is amongst the most serious of them. It is entirely right that the governemnt try to do "something" about it rather than rely solely on market forces to reach an equilibrium. But a land tax is not going to achieve much.
The recipe for a solution is simple to state and very difficult to achieve. The demand for housing in the South East must be reversed in favour of other areas of the UK. Well paid jobs need to be relocated out of the South East. But how on earth can that be achieved? What business is going to willingly take on the enormous upheaval of a relocation? Both the direct and opportunity costs would be huge, and they would inevitably lose a lot of their staff in the process. You'd need to provide huge incentives and huge penalties to achieve any siginificant relocation in the next few years. In the longer term some service sector jobs may naturally become less centralised as IT and communication technology improves and becomes better exploited, but can we cross our fingers and wait that long?
>> Edited by ATG on Saturday 29th January 13:17
As usual it is worth pointing out through all the doom and gloom that the UK's economy is growing strongly and has been doing so pretty much uninterrupted since Clark was Chancellor. Unemployment is also very low. These aren't government lies, they are simple economic facts. The UK economy does have strains, IMHO the effect of rampant housing market inflation is amongst the most serious of them. It is entirely right that the governemnt try to do "something" about it rather than rely solely on market forces to reach an equilibrium. But a land tax is not going to achieve much.
The recipe for a solution is simple to state and very difficult to achieve. The demand for housing in the South East must be reversed in favour of other areas of the UK. Well paid jobs need to be relocated out of the South East. But how on earth can that be achieved? What business is going to willingly take on the enormous upheaval of a relocation? Both the direct and opportunity costs would be huge, and they would inevitably lose a lot of their staff in the process. You'd need to provide huge incentives and huge penalties to achieve any siginificant relocation in the next few years. In the longer term some service sector jobs may naturally become less centralised as IT and communication technology improves and becomes better exploited, but can we cross our fingers and wait that long?
>> Edited by ATG on Saturday 29th January 13:17
v8thunder said:
And can someone please explain how land taxation encourages housebuilding? It's like saying road charging would encourage driving.
Not quite, the plan is to tax landowners for not selling up to developers - hence encouraging housebuilding by creating a dis-incentive for holding onto undeveloped land.
TBH, it's not going to affect me, at least not for the far forseeable, so I can't really get in a big huff on this one. Nevertheless, it's sneaky, underhand and typical of this snivelling excuse for a Government. And to answer the chap above, there already are taxes on taxes, effectively you do pay a tax on not having children (by not receiving any of the family/child benefit allowances) and by the same margin, by not claiming benefits at all you are getting nothing back from what you pay out in tax, hence being at a net loss for not claiming benefits!
Pleeeeease let them lose, and pleeeease may the alternative be any better.
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