MP4C, Man Maths and the Euro
Discussion
I guess too much time on my hands at the moment but I am wanting a 12C big time.
I have seen a 2012 MY with nice spec for sale in Germany and am very happy with LHD as I spend more time in Europe than the UK at the moment. Financially I suffer from a weakening Euro and get more depressed by the day as I watch the Greece debacle. As a Brit with the expectation in the medium term to come back to the UK permanently (with the need to exchange euro's held to £) I think to myself, wouldn't buying a 12C now be a hedge against a weakening Euro?
Man maths I know. My logic being that 12C prices have bottomed or will stay flat and a sale in the UK in the future will be possible. I accept that LHD has a bit of a stigma in the UK but that will be reflected in the future sales price. So, rather than sitting on Euro's in the bank earning nothing and possibly going down in value against the pound until I convert them, why not buy the car, use it and then sell in the UK. At current exchange rates the car I have my eye on is around £105k. Car was first registered in 5/12, has 10k miles and lots of options (ceramics, elite paint, full carbon in and out, lightweight wheels, full stealth pack, sports exhaust and IRIS/power upgrade). On checking the UK equivalent new OTR price was around £220k and current UK RHD prices for similar seem to be around £125k.
Buying LHD in Europe at a good discount to UK prices and enjoying the car has worked so far with my Challenge Stradale, so this only helps the man maths.
So PHer's and 12C owners, any thoughts on my plan / views on owning a 12C and saleability of LHD in the UK very welcome.
I have seen a 2012 MY with nice spec for sale in Germany and am very happy with LHD as I spend more time in Europe than the UK at the moment. Financially I suffer from a weakening Euro and get more depressed by the day as I watch the Greece debacle. As a Brit with the expectation in the medium term to come back to the UK permanently (with the need to exchange euro's held to £) I think to myself, wouldn't buying a 12C now be a hedge against a weakening Euro?
Man maths I know. My logic being that 12C prices have bottomed or will stay flat and a sale in the UK in the future will be possible. I accept that LHD has a bit of a stigma in the UK but that will be reflected in the future sales price. So, rather than sitting on Euro's in the bank earning nothing and possibly going down in value against the pound until I convert them, why not buy the car, use it and then sell in the UK. At current exchange rates the car I have my eye on is around £105k. Car was first registered in 5/12, has 10k miles and lots of options (ceramics, elite paint, full carbon in and out, lightweight wheels, full stealth pack, sports exhaust and IRIS/power upgrade). On checking the UK equivalent new OTR price was around £220k and current UK RHD prices for similar seem to be around £125k.
Buying LHD in Europe at a good discount to UK prices and enjoying the car has worked so far with my Challenge Stradale, so this only helps the man maths.
So PHer's and 12C owners, any thoughts on my plan / views on owning a 12C and saleability of LHD in the UK very welcome.
On the basis you know your coming back why didn't you switch into sterling at 1-1 ? I kind of feel you've lost the chance now, market unlikely to be allowed to go past 1.5 - 1.6
LHD 12c in UK not at the levels your talking, if your prepared to wait and maybe over winter you can pick up a cheap car.
I was offered a mint car at 108 in February and another high owner car a month ago at circa 100.
To me that puts a LHD at 85-90 max depending on spec.
Only my thoughts sorry.
LHD 12c in UK not at the levels your talking, if your prepared to wait and maybe over winter you can pick up a cheap car.
I was offered a mint car at 108 in February and another high owner car a month ago at circa 100.
To me that puts a LHD at 85-90 max depending on spec.
Only my thoughts sorry.
TISPKJ,
Thanks for your thoughts and helpful to get more insight. BTW, your new acquisition looks fantastic, enjoy.
At the moment my research is limited to PH sales which seem to indicate the 12C 2012 MY decent spec low mileage price is stuck at around 125k, so interested you were offered at 108k low season. Of course offer and actual deal price is another matter. Just to clarify, are you suggesting a LHD price of 85-90k against current market prices of around 125k or against lower winter prices - just trying to get a better view of LHD discount. I was thinking a 20% rather than 30% discount for LHD.
Re the FX rate, yes I wish I had switched out at 1.20 - 1.25 which was the best rate since I've been holding Euro's. I'm guilty of being complacent and now fear you are right, unlikely to go over 1.5 but would prefer to get back to 1.25 one way or the other over the next 3 - 4 years (hence the 12C as a LHD proposition, buying now at a good discount to UK RHD prices so even if no further weakening of the euro I can still (effectively) get a bit better rate when selling in the UK. For my man maths to work I really need some appreciation in the future (as I am seeing nicely with my CS).
Any further input / views most welcome.
Thanks for your thoughts and helpful to get more insight. BTW, your new acquisition looks fantastic, enjoy.
At the moment my research is limited to PH sales which seem to indicate the 12C 2012 MY decent spec low mileage price is stuck at around 125k, so interested you were offered at 108k low season. Of course offer and actual deal price is another matter. Just to clarify, are you suggesting a LHD price of 85-90k against current market prices of around 125k or against lower winter prices - just trying to get a better view of LHD discount. I was thinking a 20% rather than 30% discount for LHD.
Re the FX rate, yes I wish I had switched out at 1.20 - 1.25 which was the best rate since I've been holding Euro's. I'm guilty of being complacent and now fear you are right, unlikely to go over 1.5 but would prefer to get back to 1.25 one way or the other over the next 3 - 4 years (hence the 12C as a LHD proposition, buying now at a good discount to UK RHD prices so even if no further weakening of the euro I can still (effectively) get a bit better rate when selling in the UK. For my man maths to work I really need some appreciation in the future (as I am seeing nicely with my CS).
Any further input / views most welcome.
Thanks for comments on mine.
I see like you right now a low mileage nice spec car around the 120 - 125 level, a factory warranty is £3600 a year which is factored into the price from a main dealer.
Talking my own book I don't see the cars dropping much below current levels when you have the likes of the 430 and California at the levels they are, ditto the Lamborghini LP's
I have been watching the market since late last year and also been running a wanted for £100k advert, a few early 2011 cars sold over last winter or should I say we're advertised at £115 - 117k level and sold quickly.
The ex hire car with 20k miles ?? was advertised at think was £105k ?? And sold.
From my add I had one dealer call me asking I would pay a bit more ( he had one of the 115k cars) a guy that bought a car and just didn't like it so was selling 2 weeks later and dealer had bid him 105 so offered me with warranty for 108k, and a guy recently contacted me with a high owner car for circa 100k but I didn't really talk money as had bought my car by then.
So a few exceptional cars money wise and partly seasonal but they are there, I think in the uk you would stand a better chance of selling a high owner RHD car than any LHD car however nice, so your only line of attack as a seller has to be price which I would suggest has to be around the 90 mark maybe.
I see like you right now a low mileage nice spec car around the 120 - 125 level, a factory warranty is £3600 a year which is factored into the price from a main dealer.
Talking my own book I don't see the cars dropping much below current levels when you have the likes of the 430 and California at the levels they are, ditto the Lamborghini LP's
I have been watching the market since late last year and also been running a wanted for £100k advert, a few early 2011 cars sold over last winter or should I say we're advertised at £115 - 117k level and sold quickly.
The ex hire car with 20k miles ?? was advertised at think was £105k ?? And sold.
From my add I had one dealer call me asking I would pay a bit more ( he had one of the 115k cars) a guy that bought a car and just didn't like it so was selling 2 weeks later and dealer had bid him 105 so offered me with warranty for 108k, and a guy recently contacted me with a high owner car for circa 100k but I didn't really talk money as had bought my car by then.
So a few exceptional cars money wise and partly seasonal but they are there, I think in the uk you would stand a better chance of selling a high owner RHD car than any LHD car however nice, so your only line of attack as a seller has to be price which I would suggest has to be around the 90 mark maybe.
TISPKJ,
I Really appreciate the further insight on prices following your experience.
As you say, the market for 458 / 430 et al has firmed and seems to be sticking (let's not get into the debate of whether it is a bubble like 1990 and when will it burst) and I sense there is a level of acceptance of LHD in the UK for F Cars, Lambos and Porsche but not seen any LHD 12C for sale. Could this be a function of the McLaren brand being the new kid on the block?
I'll keep pushing the man maths though. Aesthetically, I much prefer the 12c to the 650 and widening model range. Also it's the first of what I hope will be a long and successful production car business so maybe some future value in that. Only time will tell!
I Really appreciate the further insight on prices following your experience.
As you say, the market for 458 / 430 et al has firmed and seems to be sticking (let's not get into the debate of whether it is a bubble like 1990 and when will it burst) and I sense there is a level of acceptance of LHD in the UK for F Cars, Lambos and Porsche but not seen any LHD 12C for sale. Could this be a function of the McLaren brand being the new kid on the block?
I'll keep pushing the man maths though. Aesthetically, I much prefer the 12c to the 650 and widening model range. Also it's the first of what I hope will be a long and successful production car business so maybe some future value in that. Only time will tell!
just as an example, dealer is well respected.
12c spider without getting the calculator out 2013 car 30-40% is that ? below RHD
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
12c spider without getting the calculator out 2013 car 30-40% is that ? below RHD
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
Good spot TISPKJ, although my position is I can't reclaim the VAT (personal asset) so the LHD price is 130k inc. VAT. Looking at PH for sales, it seems RHD 2013 spiders of similar spec are around 145k - 155k, say 150k so that makes a 15% discount for LHD, or am I missing something?
Re the car in question, looks great and the sort of spec I'm looking for, although I'm really after more of a stealth look - titanium being my pref. I suspect a spider would be a better sell to the boss as she is not ken on "another car"
LHD/RHD is an interesting one and I guess a personal preference. For me I really don't mind. My daily driver in Europe as well as the UK is a RHD car and I drive my LHD cars just as much in the UK as in continental Europe.
Re the car in question, looks great and the sort of spec I'm looking for, although I'm really after more of a stealth look - titanium being my pref. I suspect a spider would be a better sell to the boss as she is not ken on "another car"
LHD/RHD is an interesting one and I guess a personal preference. For me I really don't mind. My daily driver in Europe as well as the UK is a RHD car and I drive my LHD cars just as much in the UK as in continental Europe.
Either way that car has been for sale for a while, and knowing the dealer it will be a great car so make of that what you will..
As I said before there was a black one that hung around as well for a fair while.
Of course nothing to stop you selling the car in Europe when the time comes, it's a far bigger market place.
As I said before there was a black one that hung around as well for a fair while.
Of course nothing to stop you selling the car in Europe when the time comes, it's a far bigger market place.
Gassing Station | McLaren | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff