Charge for unsuccessful work?

[crankedup]

Took my vintage car starter motor into a Auto electrical repair workshop some five weeks ago. Explained the problem as being 'sluggish'and was advised that they will sort it out.
Telephoned again today to hear that 'when the individual components are tested they work just fine'. However, when the unit is bolted back together the motor runs 'sluggish'.
It sounds as if the repair is no further forward than when I took the unit into them. They are charging me £60 for what must be the time they have spent on the thing trying to fix it. I know its not much money but is a charge fair or reasonable being as the thing is not fixed?

[Dr Interceptor]

I would expect an 'inspection fee' regardless of whether or not the unit can be fixed, especially if you're not a frequent/repeat customer of theirs.

[Jakg]

Dr Interceptor said:

I would expect an 'inspection fee' regardless of whether or not the unit can be fixed, especially if you're not a frequent/repeat customer of theirs.

They aren't saying it can't be fixed - they just don't know how to fix it. Or how to test it.

[crankedup]

Dr Interceptor said:

I would expect an 'inspection fee' regardless of whether or not the unit can be fixed, especially if you're not a frequent/repeat customer of theirs.

Fair enough, but as a customer I would expect to be told upfront about inspection fee's. For all I know the unit may have simply been sat on the work bench untouched for five weeks. Seems to me that the vintage kit has beaten the companies 'expertise'but they want to cover the time element spent. Can we liken it to a washing machine being 'fixed'but remains broken and a fee presented for failure to repair.
Maybe I expect too much!

[akirk]

they have taken it to pieces and tested each separate component and you know those results - so you are further forward than you were...
some companies wouldn't charge you - but it is not illogical to charge you for time spent on your work, it is not that the result is unsuccessful - it is simply that it hasn't yet reached the final conclusion - but it has taken you a step on the road...

whether it is an equitable amount is another matter, but not unreasonable

[crankedup]

akirk said:

they have taken it to pieces and tested each separate component and you know those results - so you are further forward than you were...
some companies wouldn't charge you - but it is not illogical to charge you for time spent on your work, it is not that the result is unsuccessful - it is simply that it hasn't yet reached the final conclusion - but it has taken you a step on the road...

whether it is an equitable amount is another matter, but not unreasonable

But I asked them if they could fix it, they said yes we can. Clearly they couldn't. I am no further forward with the repair as I know that a component is not operating satisfactorily within the unit, if it were all operating as such then the unit would be working just fine. To my mind each component needs to work in tandem with the units other components to work satisfactory, it is not, somewhere is a fault within the unit created by another part within it seems. They are unable to identify and rectify the fault.
Its like your washing machine still isn't working but it might be a fault in the C/B. Not a fix just an opinion.?

[KFC]

If they said they'd fix it, then didn't, I would say you owe them nothing. They can't just add 'inspection fees' or so on without you agreeing to that. Was it in any sort of T&C's you agreed to though?

[0000]

I'd expect to pay for their time.

[chippy348]

This is what you have to expect with old/ vintage stuff i am afraid, the unit is bound to have been rebuilt / taken apart a few times in the past and may have been assembled with incorrect parts that in themselves work but not when assembled with other parts.

The easy way out is to buy a new one but i guess you can not get them ? so you have to put up with an attempted repair.

[anothernameitist]

Reasonable amount, look what they charge at a main dealers to find a fault code

[Frimley111R]

They have tried and at least done some work. They're not a charity and their time should be paid for. I expect they thought they could fix it but can't but at least you know it has been checked although perhaps not that well as there is obviously a faulty part they didn't find.

[Ean218]

How much did they originally quote to fix it?

[DragsterRR]

This has always annoyed me about the motor trade.

If you hired a decorator to wallpaper your living room and they spent all day on it but then said...
"Well we tried to put the wallpaper up but it just kept peeling off again. Anyway, one wall is ok. That will be 300 quid please"

You would tell em where to shove it.

[crankedup]

DragsterRR said:

This has always annoyed me about the motor trade.

If you hired a decorator to wallpaper your living room and they spent all day on it but then said...
"Well we tried to put the wallpaper up but it just kept peeling off again. Anyway, one wall is ok. That will be 300 quid please"

You would tell em where to shove it.

Thanks to all posters for their thoughts, I am inclined to agree with the wallpaper analogy.

On the Company web site it specifically states Vintage and classic, the chap doing the job suggests finding a replacement armature!! Yeah right, some hope of that. It tells me they are not able to strip down and rebuild the armature, I will send the unit off to a proper specialist who can and will, at the same time resolve the problem.
My lesson learnt. Lucky its only sixty quid.

[KFC]

Frimley111R said:

They have tried and at least done some work. They're not a charity and their time should be paid for.

I technically don't get paid on jobs that I fail at, though I ultimately get paid for that time as its factored into the pricing of the jobs I did succeed on.

If someone says "yeah I'll fix that" and doesn't mention any sort of inspection fee or paying per hour even if he makes a mess of it, I don't really see how he can bill them for anything at all.

[98elise]

crankedup said:

DragsterRR said:

This has always annoyed me about the motor trade.

If you hired a decorator to wallpaper your living room and they spent all day on it but then said...
"Well we tried to put the wallpaper up but it just kept peeling off again. Anyway, one wall is ok. That will be 300 quid please"

You would tell em where to shove it.

Thanks to all posters for their thoughts, I am inclined to agree with the wallpaper analogy.

On the Company web site it specifically states Vintage and classic, the chap doing the job suggests finding a replacement armature!! Yeah right, some hope of that. It tells me they are not able to strip down and rebuild the armature, I will send the unit off to a proper specialist who can and will, at the same time resolve the problem.
My lesson learnt. Lucky its only sixty quid.

I'd disagree with the wallpaper analogy. There is no undiagnosed fault with wallpapering that you are asking them to fix.

Fixing an issue is 3 distinct pieces of work, investigate, diagnose, and fix. That may involve repeating the same process over and over until a fix works.

In this case they didn't get to the fix point, but you have received a investigation service and you have better knowledge than you had before.

[HoHoHo]

I can't believe the OP is concerned about a £60 charge for an inspection. The man looked, couldn't find a problem and is expected to do that for nothing.

I'm assuming ther OP doesn't run a charity and charges accordingly for his line of work?

[crankedup]

HoHoHo said:

I can't believe the OP is concerned about a £60 charge for an inspection. The man looked, couldn't find a problem and is expected to do that for nothing.

I'm assuming ther OP doesn't run a charity and charges accordingly for his line of work?

If you read my post, clearly you didn't before posting, you will understand the sixty quid is not the issue. It is the principle that is up for discussion.
The previous auto electrician had a go at fixing the unit but was also unsuccessful having spent several hours on it. He said that no charge as he was unable to rectify the problem.

[TheEnd]

Garage labour rates are usually by the hour.

They took some time taking it off, opening it up, have a look in their professional capacity.

Say for example you brought a car in with a knocking engine and wanted it fixed. If they opened it up and found the internals were smashed to bits, you wouldn't just load it on a trailer and disappear without paying anything with a "well, you never fixed it, so I get the stripping down for free"

[MarshPhantom]

Tough one, should have agreed what the charges would be beforehand.