How much would you pay if there were no minimum wage?
Discussion
Mods, please keep this in the lounge as its a general discussion topic I feel.
I employ around 40 people and 30 of them are on minimum wage, they do get periodic bonus' but essentially £6.50 an hour.
The vast majority are getting by quite wel on this, actually very well because they pay little in Tax and NI and live with their folks meaning most of their salary is disposable income.
I conduct regular appraisals and always get the feedback they are happy with their work conditions, pay etc and none are keen to push themselves to earn more which makes me think, were it not for the legal minimum wage what would they work for.
What would you pay in your businesses?
Just enough to scrape by but id pay a monthly bonus based on their/their teams productivity and company profit and I wouldn't mind if the bonus side was quit generous as they work harder to earn more and so do I.
£9 is a decent wage but now (or 2020) you can get this for scratching your arse all day.
£9 is a decent wage but now (or 2020) you can get this for scratching your arse all day.
My answer would depend on how much the business could bear. NMW is crap and I wouldn't be happy paying it whilst paying myself £5m a year. However, if the business was just getting by on paying NMW, then I wouldn't be looking to increase it.
I think £10/hour is the minimum you should pay an adult employee and if the business could do that and make a half decent profit, that would be my aim.
I think it's pretty outrageous that international corporations like fast food outlets and major hotel chains pay men and women with families to support NMW, that are then topped up by tax credits paid by the rest of us. So they can sell cheeseburgers for 99p and hotel rooms for £29, and Lenny f
king Henry £500K to advertise the fact.
I think £10/hour is the minimum you should pay an adult employee and if the business could do that and make a half decent profit, that would be my aim.
I think it's pretty outrageous that international corporations like fast food outlets and major hotel chains pay men and women with families to support NMW, that are then topped up by tax credits paid by the rest of us. So they can sell cheeseburgers for 99p and hotel rooms for £29, and Lenny f
king Henry £500K to advertise the fact.
I owned a small retail business when MW kicked in, and were already paying about right.
Saturdays were very busy and that's where we got over 50% of our turnover. We would always give them a bonus on a good day, which would be something like 2 or 3 hours extra wages.
In short we were actually paying them according to the value they were adding to the business.
Saturdays were very busy and that's where we got over 50% of our turnover. We would always give them a bonus on a good day, which would be something like 2 or 3 hours extra wages.
In short we were actually paying them according to the value they were adding to the business.
I'm self employed now, but I'm a time served Mechanical Engineer. It took me 4 years to gain that qualification and before I went self employed I'd got into a role where I earnt £15 an hour (I think previous to that it was something like £12.40 per hour).
What used to piss me and the other lads off was seeing the minimum wage lot get their annual rises whilst we got nothing. Year on year the pay gap between Skilled/Unskilled becomes smaller and smaller. If you let it continue there will come a point where there will be no point in going into further education because some numpty who's not listened at school will be able to walk into an Unskilled minimum wage job and earn a decent hourly rate.
Namby pamby bullst. If you can't be arsed to further yourself after school or even do your GCSE's you deserve to be on your arse IMO.
What used to piss me and the other lads off was seeing the minimum wage lot get their annual rises whilst we got nothing. Year on year the pay gap between Skilled/Unskilled becomes smaller and smaller. If you let it continue there will come a point where there will be no point in going into further education because some numpty who's not listened at school will be able to walk into an Unskilled minimum wage job and earn a decent hourly rate.
Namby pamby bulls
t. If you can't be arsed to further yourself after school or even do your GCSE's you deserve to be on your arse IMO.£9 per hour equates to an annual salary of £17.5k, assuming a 37 hour week. That's still not very much unless living at home with parents. However for many it can be hard work to get much above that, thinking about recent graduates who have been through at least 3 years of study plus racking up loads of debt.
When I graduated with a chemistry degree (2004) my starting salary was £16.5k, but having the student mentality and sharing a 1 bedroom flat (£450 between us IIRC) with my girlfriend meant that the salary stretched quite far back then. My salary now is obviously a lot more than that, but I have 2 kids, a house to pay for etc. I can't see how others in a similar boat could survive on £9 per hour.
To answer the original question I think it would ultimately come down to what a business could pay to keep the best staff, and how much a company cared about doing that (high staff turnover might not be a problem for some). Some scummy employers would pay half the minimum wage if they were allowed to, and people would still work for them if desperate.
When I graduated with a chemistry degree (2004) my starting salary was £16.5k, but having the student mentality and sharing a 1 bedroom flat (£450 between us IIRC) with my girlfriend meant that the salary stretched quite far back then. My salary now is obviously a lot more than that, but I have 2 kids, a house to pay for etc. I can't see how others in a similar boat could survive on £9 per hour.
To answer the original question I think it would ultimately come down to what a business could pay to keep the best staff, and how much a company cared about doing that (high staff turnover might not be a problem for some). Some scummy employers would pay half the minimum wage if they were allowed to, and people would still work for them if desperate.
StuTheGrouch said:
£9 per hour equates to an annual salary of £17.5k, assuming a 37 hour week. That's still not very much unless living at home with parents. However for many it can be hard work to get much above that, thinking about recent graduates who have been through at least 3 years of study plus racking up loads of debt.
When I graduated with a chemistry degree (2004) my starting salary was £16.5k, but having the student mentality and sharing a 1 bedroom flat (£450 between us IIRC) with my girlfriend meant that the salary stretched quite far back then. My salary now is obviously a lot more than that, but I have 2 kids, a house to pay for etc. I can't see how others in a similar boat could survive on £9 per hour.
To answer the original question I think it would ultimately come down to what a business could pay to keep the best staff, and how much a company cared about doing that (high staff turnover might not be a problem for some). Some scummy employers would pay half the minimum wage if they were allowed to, and people would still work for them if desperate.
£9 an hour in LincolnshireWhen I graduated with a chemistry degree (2004) my starting salary was £16.5k, but having the student mentality and sharing a 1 bedroom flat (£450 between us IIRC) with my girlfriend meant that the salary stretched quite far back then. My salary now is obviously a lot more than that, but I have 2 kids, a house to pay for etc. I can't see how others in a similar boat could survive on £9 per hour.
To answer the original question I think it would ultimately come down to what a business could pay to keep the best staff, and how much a company cared about doing that (high staff turnover might not be a problem for some). Some scummy employers would pay half the minimum wage if they were allowed to, and people would still work for them if desperate.
£1200 a month take home
Living with parents who agree free lodge or small amount
Moped to get to work
£200 allowance per month for everything
£1000 saving per month
£24k saved over 2 years
£80k starter house in nice area
£20k deposit £60k borrowed £4k fund for fees and stuff
£285 PCM repayment mortgage over 25yr
Council tax, utilities etc £250
Food £200
Fuel , insurance etc £200
Piece of piss and if you get with someone else who's earning £9 / hr you're laughing your cock off.
MajorProblem said:
£9 an hour in Lincolnshire
£1200 a month take home
Living with parents who agree free lodge or small amount
Moped to get to work
£200 allowance per month for everything
£1000 saving per month
£24k saved over 2 years
£80k starter house in nice area
£20k deposit £60k borrowed £4k fund for fees and stuff
£285 PCM repayment mortgage over 25yr
Council tax, utilities etc £250
Food £200
Fuel , insurance etc £200
Piece of piss and if you get with someone else who's earning £9 / hr you're laughing your cock off.
Yep - the definition of living the dream£1200 a month take home
Living with parents who agree free lodge or small amount
Moped to get to work
£200 allowance per month for everything
£1000 saving per month
£24k saved over 2 years
£80k starter house in nice area
£20k deposit £60k borrowed £4k fund for fees and stuff
£285 PCM repayment mortgage over 25yr
Council tax, utilities etc £250
Food £200
Fuel , insurance etc £200
Piece of piss and if you get with someone else who's earning £9 / hr you're laughing your cock off.
Major problem
I can't disagree with your figures.
Many people do use the cost of housing as the major stumbling block but it's very area dependant.
A lot of first time buyers set their sights now on what isn't what I'd call a first time buyers property.
When I bought my first place it was a flat, two bedroom, same as my brother did, now lots look at those as not worth buying, they want a house!
In a lot of the country you can buy a very nice 3 bed terrace for less than £100k, I know that's not possible in London but there are thousands of towns where it is, buy that as a couple and as you point out you can live very comfortably indeed.
The staff I employ pretty much all live with their parents, they give a nominal amount for housekeeping and enjoy £7/800 a month of completely disposable income.
Many buy a couple of pairs of £70 trainers a month, go out to bars for decent sessions weekly, have plenty of branded clothing and often have a costa coffee on the go.
I'm not saying that equates to living the high life but being on minimum wage for many can give a very comfortable life.
I can't disagree with your figures.
Many people do use the cost of housing as the major stumbling block but it's very area dependant.
A lot of first time buyers set their sights now on what isn't what I'd call a first time buyers property.
When I bought my first place it was a flat, two bedroom, same as my brother did, now lots look at those as not worth buying, they want a house!
In a lot of the country you can buy a very nice 3 bed terrace for less than £100k, I know that's not possible in London but there are thousands of towns where it is, buy that as a couple and as you point out you can live very comfortably indeed.
The staff I employ pretty much all live with their parents, they give a nominal amount for housekeeping and enjoy £7/800 a month of completely disposable income.
Many buy a couple of pairs of £70 trainers a month, go out to bars for decent sessions weekly, have plenty of branded clothing and often have a costa coffee on the go.
I'm not saying that equates to living the high life but being on minimum wage for many can give a very comfortable life.
rb5er said:
No good if younlive in a proper place though.
I expect your post is a bit tongue in cheek but when you say a proper place what do you mean. The guy says Lincolnshire but could as easily say Northampton, lancs, Yorkshire, beds, Leicstershire, Derby, Nottingham, West Midlands and loads more.Take any prejudiced hat off and tell me why those aren't decent places to live?
desolate said:
MajorProblem said:
£9 an hour in Lincolnshire
£1200 a month take home
Living with parents who agree free lodge or small amount
Moped to get to work
£200 allowance per month for everything
£1000 saving per month
£24k saved over 2 years
£80k starter house in nice area
£20k deposit £60k borrowed £4k fund for fees and stuff
£285 PCM repayment mortgage over 25yr
Council tax, utilities etc £250
Food £200
Fuel , insurance etc £200
Piece of piss and if you get with someone else who's earning £9 / hr you're laughing your cock off.
Yep - the definition of living the dream£1200 a month take home
Living with parents who agree free lodge or small amount
Moped to get to work
£200 allowance per month for everything
£1000 saving per month
£24k saved over 2 years
£80k starter house in nice area
£20k deposit £60k borrowed £4k fund for fees and stuff
£285 PCM repayment mortgage over 25yr
Council tax, utilities etc £250
Food £200
Fuel , insurance etc £200
Piece of piss and if you get with someone else who's earning £9 / hr you're laughing your cock off.
GT03ROB said:
So what lifestyle should minimum wage support? A genuine question nor criticism of your statement.
I accept that certain jobs are only going to be able to support certain lifestyles.I have always thought the minimum wage is way too low and I would be in favour of aiming to get it to the equivalent of £10 an hour, perhaps £12.
We do seem to be stuck in a low wage spiral - there's a valid argument that by increasing the minimum wage we are in danger of creating rampant wage inflation so I am not suggesting that this is a quick or simple fix.
The chap on this thread is talking about people who are obviously youngsters living at home and effectively earning beer money but on the thread about tax credits we see that you can have a couple whereby both are in work and receiving fairly significant tax credits. To my mind this is the government subsidising a low wage economy.
The depressing thing for those on low wages is that as their wage increases they will have their credits removed so the net effect to them personally is nil increase for the foreseeable future.
I think it is a good move from the government to push the minimum wage higher and try to reduce working credits - I'd just like to see them be bolder and push wages at the lower end of the scale much further.
StuTheGrouch said:
£9 per hour equates to an annual salary of £17.5k, assuming a 37 hour week.
Jesus that's a lot then for what can be a zero responsibility job. When I started as a trainee QS about ten years ago I was on £12k for a 45 hour (contractual but often a lot more) working week.
Living at home with parents I still lived like a king mind.
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