Legal Question - Garage Impounding Car
Discussion
Just prior to Xmas, I agreed to buy a car with engine problems off a seller on ebay. I offered to transfer cash direct into his account (we are members of the same bank) but he said he would rather have a personal cheque and that I could collect the car once it was cleared. I agreed but told him that I would then be unable to arrange collection until the second week in January (as the collection company was on holiday over Xmas / New Year break and was then fully booked in the first week).
I need to confirm when my cheque cleared but due to the holiday period, I suspect it wasn’t until around the end of Dec. Also the seller sent me the complete V5 which I said I would send off to the DVLA upon receipt of the car. Ie the date of transfer is the 13th of January.
I phoned the garage at which the car was sitting to say that I was the new owner of the vehicle and that the car would be collected on 13th January. This is when I was hit with the news that the garage would be charging £15+VAT per day for storage and that the previous owner had only paid until 20th Dec. Basically I was forced to pay this charge (by Visa) from 21st Dec in order to secure the release of my car. If I hadn’t paid, the garage would have held my car, I would have lost my slot with the collection company and the situation would have got worse.
Anyway, the question is, can the garage legally hold my car to force me to pay charges due by the previous owner? If not, can I complain through my Visa company? I did authorise the payment but I made it clear that I wasn't happy.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
I need to confirm when my cheque cleared but due to the holiday period, I suspect it wasn’t until around the end of Dec. Also the seller sent me the complete V5 which I said I would send off to the DVLA upon receipt of the car. Ie the date of transfer is the 13th of January.
I phoned the garage at which the car was sitting to say that I was the new owner of the vehicle and that the car would be collected on 13th January. This is when I was hit with the news that the garage would be charging £15+VAT per day for storage and that the previous owner had only paid until 20th Dec. Basically I was forced to pay this charge (by Visa) from 21st Dec in order to secure the release of my car. If I hadn’t paid, the garage would have held my car, I would have lost my slot with the collection company and the situation would have got worse.
Anyway, the question is, can the garage legally hold my car to force me to pay charges due by the previous owner? If not, can I complain through my Visa company? I did authorise the payment but I made it clear that I wasn't happy.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Sounds like a civil matter. trot off to CAB and have a session with one of their free solicitors....
DVD
good idea, thank you. If their solicitor is of the opinion that the garage does not have the right to bill me, would the CAB / Visa provide me with help or would I at that point have to finance any dispute out of my own pocket (which for the sake of £430 I probably wouldn't).
jap-car said:
Just prior to Xmas, I agreed to buy a car with engine problems off a seller on ebay. I offered to transfer cash direct into his account (we are members of the same bank) but he said he would rather have a personal cheque and that I could collect the car once it was cleared. I agreed but told him that I would then be unable to arrange collection until the second week in January (as the collection company was on holiday over Xmas / New Year break and was then fully booked in the first week).
I need to confirm when my cheque cleared but due to the holiday period, I suspect it wasn’t until around the end of Dec. Also the seller sent me the complete V5 which I said I would send off to the DVLA upon receipt of the car. Ie the date of transfer is the 13th of January.
I phoned the garage at which the car was sitting to say that I was the new owner of the vehicle and that the car would be collected on 13th January. This is when I was hit with the news that the garage would be charging £15+VAT per day for storage and that the previous owner had only paid until 20th Dec. Basically I was forced to pay this charge (by Visa) from 21st Dec in order to secure the release of my car. If I hadn’t paid, the garage would have held my car, I would have lost my slot with the collection company and the situation would have got worse.
Anyway, the question is, can the garage legally hold my car to force me to pay charges due by the previous owner? If not, can I complain through my Visa company? I did authorise the payment but I made it clear that I wasn't happy.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Err..... no - unless I'm seriously mistaken. You are only responsible for the debt from when you owned the car. WTF is it to do with you what happened before then ?
wolf1 said:
They cannot impound your property but they can invoice you for the storage and chase the debt if it is left unpaid.
I accept that the garage probably has the right to expect payment, but from me?? They definitely said that they would not release the car until the debt was paid ie they did impound my property.
parrot of doom said:
You're only liable for the charges from the date at which ownership transferred to yourself. Before that, its between the garage and the previous owner.
That's what I was hoping to hear. I hope you speak from a position of legal knowledge rather than common sense (which sometines differ I think
).parrot of doom said:
You're only liable for the charges from the date at which ownership transferred to yourself. Before that, its between the garage and the previous owner.
And that date is...
The end of the auction?
The date the cheque was handed over?
The date the cheque cleared?
Gareth
g_attrill said:
You're only liable for the charges from the date at which ownership transferred to yourself. Before that, its between the garage and the previous owner.
And that date is...
The end of the auction?
The date the cheque was handed over?
The date the cheque cleared?
Gareth
Obviously I'd like to go with the date of registered keeper change but the seller would like to go with the date I agreed to buy. Good point....
Sounds like the garage is treating your car as security for the seller's debt. Are they entitled to do this without explicit agreement? If not, my uninformed opinion is that the garage have no right to prevent you from retrieving your property and you would have been within your rights to forcibly remove the car from their property (sending bailiffs in if necessary).
MilnerR said:
Your agreement to buy doesn't constitute ownership in any way. Otherwise as soon as an offer for a house was accepted you could move your stuff in.
Isn't that how auctions work though, even for houses? Of course, eBay is not legally an auction.
MilnerR said:
When you became liable for that car as the registered keeper is from when you should pay.
Registered keeper means nothing - owner could be someone else entirely.
>> Edited by bobbins on Tuesday 1st February 15:00
jap-car said:
parrot of doom said:
You're only liable for the charges from the date at which ownership transferred to yourself. Before that, its between the garage and the previous owner.
And that date is...
The end of the auction?
The date the cheque was handed over?
The date the cheque cleared?
Gareth
Obviously I'd like to go with the date of registered keeper change but the seller would like to go with the date I agreed to buy. Good point....
If you were not made aware of these charges in advance then they do seem unreasonable. Have you asked the seller to pay?
At the very least, he surely ought to pay until the transaction (perhaps his acceptance that the funds had cleared?) was complete?
I think for £50 you can go through small claims court - might be worth doing that and maybe he'll cave in? No idea if you'd win if you had to go through with it, though.
bobbins said:
If you were not made aware of these charges in advance then they do seem unreasonable. Have you asked the seller to pay?
At the very least, he surely ought to pay until the transaction (perhaps his acceptance that the funds had cleared?) was complete?
I think for £50 you can go through small claims court - might be worth doing that and maybe he'll cave in? No idea if you'd win if you had to go through with it, though.
I wasn't previously aware of any storage charges.
Although the car was advertised on ebay, I came to a private agreement with the seller and the sale was not through ebay.
Admittedly I haven't asked the seller to pay these charges. I'm pretty sure he won't pay them (why would he - he has my cash) but thinking about it, I will ask him so that it is on record for legal purposes.
I will also contact my Visa company regarding whether the payment to the garage can be retained. I suspect it can't be as I agreed to the payment but maybe not....
I will also contact CAB and see what they say about the chances if I take to small claims court....
Thanks for all your replies and I'll let you know of any results.
jap-car said:
I will also contact my Visa company regarding whether the payment to the garage can be retained. I suspect it can't be as I agreed to the payment but maybe not....
There's no need for Visa to retain the payment - they'll just do a charge back if they want to.
Visa will expect you to at least try to sort this out yourself first, and, given the complicated circumstances, I doubt they would help (but no harm in asking).
Sorry Jap-car, I'm afraid you're on to a loser with this one.
The garage have what is known as a right of lien; this is a facet of the law that allows certain types of businesses, mostly service industries, to retain custody of goods purchased or equipment or vehicles worked on that moneys are owed against.
It quite clearly is outside the control of the garage whether or not a customer sells their vehicle on; but any debt due to them that remains unpaid gives them the right to retain the vehicle.
The seller of course should have informed you of this debt, and in failing to do so he renders himself in breach of contract unless there was an agreement between the two of you that you would accept the storage debts; that makes him fully liable for the charges, and you can show that you had to pay them to get the vehicle, but it was under duress.
I would raise a small claims against him in your County Court as long as you are sure he is resident and good for the money; there is no point in suing someone who has no cash or assets.
The garage have what is known as a right of lien; this is a facet of the law that allows certain types of businesses, mostly service industries, to retain custody of goods purchased or equipment or vehicles worked on that moneys are owed against.
It quite clearly is outside the control of the garage whether or not a customer sells their vehicle on; but any debt due to them that remains unpaid gives them the right to retain the vehicle.
The seller of course should have informed you of this debt, and in failing to do so he renders himself in breach of contract unless there was an agreement between the two of you that you would accept the storage debts; that makes him fully liable for the charges, and you can show that you had to pay them to get the vehicle, but it was under duress.
I would raise a small claims against him in your County Court as long as you are sure he is resident and good for the money; there is no point in suing someone who has no cash or assets.
Sorry Jap-car, I'm afraid you're on to a loser with this one.
The garage have what is known as a right of lien; this is a facet of the law that allows certain types of businesses, mostly service industries, to retain custody of goods purchased or equipment or vehicles worked on that moneys are owed against.
It quite clearly is outside the control of the garage whether or not a customer sells their vehicle on; but any debt due to them that remains unpaid gives them the right to retain the vehicle.
The seller of course should have informed you of this debt, and in failing to do so he renders himself in breach of contract unless there was an agreement between the two of you that you would accept the storage debts; that makes him fully liable for the charges, and you can show that you had to pay them to get the vehicle, but it was under duress.
I would raise a small claims against him in your County Court as long as you are sure he is resident and good for the money; there is no point in suing someone who has no cash or assets.
The garage have what is known as a right of lien; this is a facet of the law that allows certain types of businesses, mostly service industries, to retain custody of goods purchased or equipment or vehicles worked on that moneys are owed against.
It quite clearly is outside the control of the garage whether or not a customer sells their vehicle on; but any debt due to them that remains unpaid gives them the right to retain the vehicle.
The seller of course should have informed you of this debt, and in failing to do so he renders himself in breach of contract unless there was an agreement between the two of you that you would accept the storage debts; that makes him fully liable for the charges, and you can show that you had to pay them to get the vehicle, but it was under duress.
I would raise a small claims against him in your County Court as long as you are sure he is resident and good for the money; there is no point in suing someone who has no cash or assets.
kevinday said:
Iolaire is correct on this one. Small claims court is the way to go.
Is it really worth loosing any sleep over a "relatively" small amount of money,
perhaps the seller was unaware that the garage would hit you with this charge??, personally I would put it down to bad luck and experience, imo going to court is a non starter, as it was hardly the sellers fault that for whatever reason, you were unable to pick the car up promptly........ Might be worth contacting the seller though, explaining the position , and seeing if he will go 50%, but I wouldn't hold your breath..........
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