Formal adult warning in Scotland
Discussion
Evening all,
I am here looking for some legal advice on the following situation.
I have been accused of a crime. I have been questioned about the circumstances which led me to be at the location where it is claimed to have happened.
Let me make it clear that I was present but did not commit the alleged offence.
I have not been asked to give any form of statement about the alleged offence.
I was specifically told that should I insist in giving a statement that I would have to be taken to the local police station and could be there for an untold period of time.
I have been asked to attend either the local police station or the premises in which I reside when visiting the area.
The purpose of this meeting is for the officer to issue me with a formal adult warning. The officer states that this is the result of his conversation with his sergeant and the procurator fiscal.
I have read about the Formal Adult Warning Scheme. It seems that these can be issued without the requirement of a guilty plea from myself.
These stay on the force computer for a minimum of 2 years, up to 5!
How should I deal with this?
I have not committed the alleged offence
I was with my partner at the time, she is my witness
The complainant I believe had their sibling present
As far as I know there are no other witnesses
At the time off the alleged offence I was on the phone to a 999 call handler advising them of the situation and exactly what was happening.
Should I refuse this warning and offer that they proceed with allegation or should I accept it on the basis that it's probably easier?
Please help, this meeting is tomorrow.
Thanks!
I am here looking for some legal advice on the following situation.
I have been accused of a crime. I have been questioned about the circumstances which led me to be at the location where it is claimed to have happened.
Let me make it clear that I was present but did not commit the alleged offence.
I have not been asked to give any form of statement about the alleged offence.
I was specifically told that should I insist in giving a statement that I would have to be taken to the local police station and could be there for an untold period of time.
I have been asked to attend either the local police station or the premises in which I reside when visiting the area.
The purpose of this meeting is for the officer to issue me with a formal adult warning. The officer states that this is the result of his conversation with his sergeant and the procurator fiscal.
I have read about the Formal Adult Warning Scheme. It seems that these can be issued without the requirement of a guilty plea from myself.
These stay on the force computer for a minimum of 2 years, up to 5!
How should I deal with this?
I have not committed the alleged offence
I was with my partner at the time, she is my witness
The complainant I believe had their sibling present
As far as I know there are no other witnesses
At the time off the alleged offence I was on the phone to a 999 call handler advising them of the situation and exactly what was happening.
Should I refuse this warning and offer that they proceed with allegation or should I accept it on the basis that it's probably easier?
Please help, this meeting is tomorrow.
Thanks!
General Madness said:
I have read about the Formal Adult Warning Scheme. It seems that these can be issued without the requirement of a guilty plea from myself.
These stay on the force computer for a minimum of 2 years, up to 5!
Unless there has been a change in the last couple of years, according to this - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/173585/resp... - a FWA is only retained on the Scottish CHS and the PNC for 2 years, not 5. Bear in mind though that if you apply for job where Enhanced Disclosure is needed the Warning will be revealed.These stay on the force computer for a minimum of 2 years, up to 5!
General Madness said:
How should I deal with this?
I have not committed the alleged offence
I was with my partner at the time, she is my witness
The complainant I believe had their sibling present
As far as I know there are no other witnesses
At the time off the alleged offence I was on the phone to a 999 call handler advising them of the situation and exactly what was happening.
Should I refuse this warning and offer that they proceed with allegation or should I accept it on the basis that it's probably easier?
Please help, this meeting is tomorrow.
Thanks!
If you decline to accept it, the police have to decide whether to take it further. They may decide to NFA it or refer it to the PF. It will then be up to him/her whether to issue a Complaint - https://www.askthe.scottish.police.uk/content/Q562...I have not committed the alleged offence
I was with my partner at the time, she is my witness
The complainant I believe had their sibling present
As far as I know there are no other witnesses
At the time off the alleged offence I was on the phone to a 999 call handler advising them of the situation and exactly what was happening.
Should I refuse this warning and offer that they proceed with allegation or should I accept it on the basis that it's probably easier?
Please help, this meeting is tomorrow.
Thanks!
I know little about the system in Scotland so I can't say whether a referral will make it more likely that a prosecution will follow. You are in a somewhat difficult position. Only you know whether the evidence against you is likely to stack up, so it's your judgement call whether to roll the dice and rely on Police Scotland binning it. If you do decline the FWA, I suggest you might want to have a solicitor on speed dial should the
hit the fan.Your call to the call handler may be your Ace of Spades or the Two of Clubs. Depends on what is in the log.
Presumably the call to 999 will have been recorded and have a date/time stamp on it. If you can prove the incident that is alleged occurred during that call then you have them bang to rights.
Incidentallally re your accuser are they mistaken or are they somehow 'benefitting' from the accusation?
No way I'd be blighting my future by admitting to something I hadn't done. When the officer turns up and you refuse to accept the warning is it likely you'll be arrested. I'd suggest that if you don't look worried and are confident in your approach you may well generate enough doubt they'll drop it. Not sure if you could claim costs for wrongful arrest but worth putting on record that you will pursue it vigorously.
Incidentallally re your accuser are they mistaken or are they somehow 'benefitting' from the accusation?
No way I'd be blighting my future by admitting to something I hadn't done. When the officer turns up and you refuse to accept the warning is it likely you'll be arrested. I'd suggest that if you don't look worried and are confident in your approach you may well generate enough doubt they'll drop it. Not sure if you could claim costs for wrongful arrest but worth putting on record that you will pursue it vigorously.
Thanks for the replies.
I guess I'm just pretty miffed that I can effectively be punished for something that has not happened. Christ they've not even asked for my side of the story.
Copied from the government website
We recommend the introduction of a system of formal recorded police warnings. These warnings should not require an admission of guilt. They should be accessible to police and procurators fiscal for a period of not less than 2 years and not more than 5 years from the warning. They should not be referable to in court proceedings.
Link http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2004/03/19042/341...
The 999 call was from myself, I was reporting an incident and explaining what actions I took whilst they were happening!
Of course they could just say that it's still only what I have said to them and that it doesn't count.
I am also guessing that if they'd have had any intention on prosecuting me then they would have went straight for it. I can't see how though.
I don't want to run the risk of my word not being believed, after all that's realistically the only evidence either party has.
By the way, I have still not had a response regarding my 999 call. First visit from the police and it was made clear that they were responding to a call from the other party which they received when I left the area.
Solicitor - that's something which is have to rely on legal aid for.
Any other info is greatly welcomed! As you can see it's keeping me up!
I guess I'm just pretty miffed that I can effectively be punished for something that has not happened. Christ they've not even asked for my side of the story.
Copied from the government website
We recommend the introduction of a system of formal recorded police warnings. These warnings should not require an admission of guilt. They should be accessible to police and procurators fiscal for a period of not less than 2 years and not more than 5 years from the warning. They should not be referable to in court proceedings.
Link http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2004/03/19042/341...
The 999 call was from myself, I was reporting an incident and explaining what actions I took whilst they were happening!
Of course they could just say that it's still only what I have said to them and that it doesn't count.
I am also guessing that if they'd have had any intention on prosecuting me then they would have went straight for it. I can't see how though.
I don't want to run the risk of my word not being believed, after all that's realistically the only evidence either party has.
By the way, I have still not had a response regarding my 999 call. First visit from the police and it was made clear that they were responding to a call from the other party which they received when I left the area.
Solicitor - that's something which is have to rely on legal aid for.
Any other info is greatly welcomed! As you can see it's keeping me up!
Sounds like the other 999 call was retaliatory rather than contemporary.olice should be bright enough to see that, well hopefully.
Why not post up a few brief details - it sounds like some sort of violent incident to me. Again I wouldn't want that on my record. Is it possible there could be some CCTV evidence?
Why not post up a few brief details - it sounds like some sort of violent incident to me. Again I wouldn't want that on my record. Is it possible there could be some CCTV evidence?
Ok
I have been accused of pushing a lady in her 50s and breach of the peace. I was recovering property that was being withheld without the owners permission.
No physical contact was made.
She placed the items down on the drivers seat of her car with the door open. We were both standing in a public parking area. I reached in and took the items. I was explaining this in detail to the call operator as it happened.
I have been charged with these offences about 3 weeks ago and just been told about this formal warning.
My meeting is Saturday evening.
I am a 29 year old male.
Cheers
I have been accused of pushing a lady in her 50s and breach of the peace. I was recovering property that was being withheld without the owners permission.
No physical contact was made.
She placed the items down on the drivers seat of her car with the door open. We were both standing in a public parking area. I reached in and took the items. I was explaining this in detail to the call operator as it happened.
I have been charged with these offences about 3 weeks ago and just been told about this formal warning.
My meeting is Saturday evening.
I am a 29 year old male.
Cheers
Edited by General Madness on Saturday 18th July 03:17
Contact solicitor and make sure they come with you to the police station.
Do not turn up without them. Do not use the solicitor on the phone. They need to be physically present.
Ask for the interview to be bumped if they can not attend until they can attend.
Although you think you are not guilty and think that justice will prevail, someone thinks you might be.
Or, come on the internet and ask for advice from a bunch of randoms where 99% are pub lawyers.
Do not turn up without them. Do not use the solicitor on the phone. They need to be physically present.
Ask for the interview to be bumped if they can not attend until they can attend.
Although you think you are not guilty and think that justice will prevail, someone thinks you might be.
Or, come on the internet and ask for advice from a bunch of randoms where 99% are pub lawyers.
My meeting is at a family members home, the officer has agreed to see me there. It is from anytime after 9pm tonight!
It is here that he intends to issue me with this warning.
I do not have a solicitor and to be honest I have never had any dealings with them before.
I have a feeling that they are issuing me with this in the hope that it will be the end of the matter. This whole issue is on the back of a situation in which the other party has obtained cash through deception. The police are fully aware of the issue but have still not questioned me about what actually took place at the time of the alleged offence.
Are the police following the correct procedures? Can they actually issue me with a Formal Adult Warning without taking a statement from me?
Thanks again!
It is here that he intends to issue me with this warning.
I do not have a solicitor and to be honest I have never had any dealings with them before.
I have a feeling that they are issuing me with this in the hope that it will be the end of the matter. This whole issue is on the back of a situation in which the other party has obtained cash through deception. The police are fully aware of the issue but have still not questioned me about what actually took place at the time of the alleged offence.
Are the police following the correct procedures? Can they actually issue me with a Formal Adult Warning without taking a statement from me?
Thanks again!
General Madness said:
Copied from the government website
We recommend the introduction of a system of formal recorded police warnings. These warnings should not require an admission of guilt. They should be accessible to police and procurators fiscal for a period of not less than 2 years and not more than 5 years from the warning. They should not be referable to in court proceedings.
Link http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2004/03/19042/341...
As is clear from the url, that is dated March 2004. I would not take an 11 year old report as an authoritative statement of current law in 2015. We recommend the introduction of a system of formal recorded police warnings. These warnings should not require an admission of guilt. They should be accessible to police and procurators fiscal for a period of not less than 2 years and not more than 5 years from the warning. They should not be referable to in court proceedings.
Link http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2004/03/19042/341...
Read the FoI link I posted earlier. The response is dated 19 August 2013. AFAIK the retention period has not changed since then.
General Madness said:
The 999 call was from myself, I was reporting an incident and explaining what actions I took whilst they were happening!
Of course they could just say that it's still only what I have said to them and that it doesn't count.
I am also guessing that if they'd have had any intention on prosecuting me then they would have went straight for it. I can't see how though.
I don't want to run the risk of my word not being believed, after all that's realistically the only evidence either party has.
By the way, I have still not had a response regarding my 999 call. First visit from the police and it was made clear that they were responding to a call from the other party which they received when I left the area.
Solicitor - that's something which is have to rely on legal aid for.
Guesswork is not what you should be banking on right now. As for a solicitor, I think you're mistaken, see - http://www.slab.org.uk/providers/DutyPlans/PoliceS...Of course they could just say that it's still only what I have said to them and that it doesn't count.
I am also guessing that if they'd have had any intention on prosecuting me then they would have went straight for it. I can't see how though.
I don't want to run the risk of my word not being believed, after all that's realistically the only evidence either party has.
By the way, I have still not had a response regarding my 999 call. First visit from the police and it was made clear that they were responding to a call from the other party which they received when I left the area.
Solicitor - that's something which is have to rely on legal aid for.
However if you pick one yourself ahead of time who will be ready to rock up to help you note paragraphs 4 & 5. If he/she is not on the list you'll be allocated whoever is on call and available there and then.
General Madness said:
Any other info is greatly welcomed! As you can see it's keeping me up!
DON'T PANIC!Cpl Jones
Remember the first verse of Kipling's 'If'.
General Madness said:
My meeting is at a family members home, the officer has agreed to see me there. It is from anytime after 9pm tonight!
It is here that he intends to issue me with this warning.
I do not have a solicitor and to be honest I have never had any dealings with them before.
I have a feeling that they are issuing me with this in the hope that it will be the end of the matter. This whole issue is on the back of a situation in which the other party has obtained cash through deception. The police are fully aware of the issue but have still not questioned me about what actually took place at the time of the alleged offence.
Are the police following the correct procedures? Can they actually issue me with a Formal Adult Warning without taking a statement from me?
Thanks again!
GET A SOLICITOR.......It is here that he intends to issue me with this warning.
I do not have a solicitor and to be honest I have never had any dealings with them before.
I have a feeling that they are issuing me with this in the hope that it will be the end of the matter. This whole issue is on the back of a situation in which the other party has obtained cash through deception. The police are fully aware of the issue but have still not questioned me about what actually took place at the time of the alleged offence.
Are the police following the correct procedures? Can they actually issue me with a Formal Adult Warning without taking a statement from me?
Thanks again!
A Formal warning that sits on a file is serious and could cause issues.
You have either mis-read the situation as you made the 999 call - or there is something wrong with the basis of the polices' assumptions.
You need a solicitor to advise on the specific scenario - beg, borrow or steal - but get that specific advise for your situation.
As I am worried about this issue I have typed up the following. I intend on asking the officer to read over and address my points before proceeding. When I last spoke with him he seemed to be quite pleasant.
I would like to make it clear that I have not yet refused to accept the Formal Adult Warning
I am greatly concerned about the impact a Formal Adult Warning will have against my future career prospects. I am aware that these are held on the Force database and are to be disclosed during background checks.
If I refuse to accept this warning what are your intentions? Will I be arrested?
Can you explain to me why this issue has progressed to this level without me having given an official statement regarding the alleged offence?
Have you or a colleague listened to the recording of my 999 call? If so then why is this issue being pursued? If not then again why is this issue being pursued?
It would seem that the allegation made by X has developed from spite. A sort of one-upmanship. I would like you as the investigating officer to take this into consideration.
Why have I not been asked to give a statement in regards to my 999 call where I reported the theft of money and jewellery by X and breach of the peace by X?
If I refuse to accept the Formal Adult Warning
I refer you to the recorded 999 call that I made. Everything I said and done during the alleged incident was reported by me to your emergency call handler.
Does this sound like a good idea?
Thanks for all the help folks.
I would like to make it clear that I have not yet refused to accept the Formal Adult Warning
I am greatly concerned about the impact a Formal Adult Warning will have against my future career prospects. I am aware that these are held on the Force database and are to be disclosed during background checks.
If I refuse to accept this warning what are your intentions? Will I be arrested?
Can you explain to me why this issue has progressed to this level without me having given an official statement regarding the alleged offence?
Have you or a colleague listened to the recording of my 999 call? If so then why is this issue being pursued? If not then again why is this issue being pursued?
It would seem that the allegation made by X has developed from spite. A sort of one-upmanship. I would like you as the investigating officer to take this into consideration.
Why have I not been asked to give a statement in regards to my 999 call where I reported the theft of money and jewellery by X and breach of the peace by X?
If I refuse to accept the Formal Adult Warning
I refer you to the recorded 999 call that I made. Everything I said and done during the alleged incident was reported by me to your emergency call handler.
Does this sound like a good idea?
Thanks for all the help folks.
I don't understand what is being said about a solicitor. I was under the impression that if I am arrested on suspicion of a crime that I would be entitled to speak with one for advice and that this would be provided as a right to me without me having to pay!
Please tell me this is true otherwise I will probably just have to accept this Formal Adult Warning
Please tell me this is true otherwise I will probably just have to accept this Formal Adult Warning
General Madness said:
My meeting is at a family members home, the officer has agreed to see me there. It is from anytime after 9pm tonight!
It is here that he intends to issue me with this warning.
I do not have a solicitor and to be honest I have never had any dealings with them before.
I have a feeling that they are issuing me with this in the hope that it will be the end of the matter. This whole issue is on the back of a situation in which the other party has obtained cash through deception. The police are fully aware of the issue but have still not questioned me about what actually took place at the time of the alleged offence.
Are the police following the correct procedures? Can they actually issue me with a Formal Adult Warning without taking a statement from me?
Thanks again!
I have already posted a link about this. For your benefit here it is again - https://www.askthe.scottish.police.uk/content/Q562...It is here that he intends to issue me with this warning.
I do not have a solicitor and to be honest I have never had any dealings with them before.
I have a feeling that they are issuing me with this in the hope that it will be the end of the matter. This whole issue is on the back of a situation in which the other party has obtained cash through deception. The police are fully aware of the issue but have still not questioned me about what actually took place at the time of the alleged offence.
Are the police following the correct procedures? Can they actually issue me with a Formal Adult Warning without taking a statement from me?
Thanks again!
You have a choice whether or not to accept it. As I see it the real question is, should you refuse it, do the police have sufficient evidence to pass to the PF to support a prosecution? Nobody on here can advise you what to do as we have insufficient detail.
Having the meeting on your turf has the upside of it not being an alien environment.
Red Devil said:
I have already posted a link about this. For your benefit here it is again - https://www.askthe.scottish.police.uk/content/Q562...
You have a choice whether or not to accept it. As I see it the real question is, should you refuse it, do the police have sufficient evidence to pass to the PF to support a prosecution? Nobody on here can advise you what to do as we have insufficient detail.
Having the meeting on your turf has the upside of it not being an alien environment.
I am sorry but I still do not understand. You have a choice whether or not to accept it. As I see it the real question is, should you refuse it, do the police have sufficient evidence to pass to the PF to support a prosecution? Nobody on here can advise you what to do as we have insufficient detail.
Having the meeting on your turf has the upside of it not being an alien environment.
How can I be given a formal warning that stays on my record for 2 years without the police or the PF having heard my side of the story?
According to the police officer he has taken the word of the complainant and spoken with the PF. They have decided to issue me with this warning.
I have not been questioned on the accusation made against me. How can this be?
You are correct though, I do feel a little more comfortable doing this at the family members home.
Edited -
I cannot see what evidence they could possibly have against me apart from their word against mine. The incident did not happen as they are claiming
Edited by General Madness on Saturday 18th July 13:42
OP
is the disputed property yours ?
are you a certificated bailiff with a warrant ( or what ever the Scottish equivalrent is ) to seize that property ...
as the story you have presented implies that you were working in some kind of debt collectyion / warrant enforcement capacity ...
here in lays the problem
is the disputed property yours ?
are you a certificated bailiff with a warrant ( or what ever the Scottish equivalrent is ) to seize that property ...
as the story you have presented implies that you were working in some kind of debt collectyion / warrant enforcement capacity ...
here in lays the problem
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff