Any chartered accountants?
Discussion
Well at the grand old age of 26 and having gone between a few jobs since completing my Masters, I'm now looking for a proper career to settle into. I already thought I had one but honestly the job isn't challenging me at all mentally and the hours are spectacularly awful.
I'm just curious if anyone has any experience in accountancy and if they have any insight as to what a typical day may involve (in assurance), the variation of their work, what the working hours can be like, where they see themselves going throughout their career.
While salary isn't hugely important to me I'd would like to know what the earning potential can be in this field as if I left my current job I'd be walking away from a 50-60k a year job, which is a big step.
Thanks.
I'm just curious if anyone has any experience in accountancy and if they have any insight as to what a typical day may involve (in assurance), the variation of their work, what the working hours can be like, where they see themselves going throughout their career.
While salary isn't hugely important to me I'd would like to know what the earning potential can be in this field as if I left my current job I'd be walking away from a 50-60k a year job, which is a big step.
Thanks.
Eric Mc said:
Are there any particular aspects of accounting that interest you?
What do you know about accountancy at the moment?
External audit interests me because I'm a nosey git, generally quite inquisitive by nature and would enjoy the chance to visit plenty of different industries. I've previously worked in shareplan management and enjoyed working with a variation of clients.What do you know about accountancy at the moment?
I know nada about accountancy short of completing a few modules on the subject while doing my undergrad.
Auditing to me was the most boring aspect of my training and I have spent most of my post qualified life (35 years) avoiding having to do it.
It ended up being mostly a statistical and risk analysis exercise rather than containing any "snooping" activity.
Perhaps forensic accounting might suit your interest better?
It ended up being mostly a statistical and risk analysis exercise rather than containing any "snooping" activity.
Perhaps forensic accounting might suit your interest better?
Perhaps, I was intending on applying to the big 4 and Assurance seemed like a popular scheme, assuming that I can then move into other areas if that was particularly dull or other areas interest me more.
Could you give any indication to the possible earnings once ACCA accredited, I know within practice it'll be £40-50k which I'll be happy with but outside of that and outside of London?
Could you give any indication to the possible earnings once ACCA accredited, I know within practice it'll be £40-50k which I'll be happy with but outside of that and outside of London?
Pop along to any accountancy recruitment website and you will get a feel for the salary levels. I work for myself now (in practice) so have no idea what the current going rates are for qualifieds.
In the end, if you are only doing it for the money, maybe the "boringness" of any one sector may not matter too much.
In the end, if you are only doing it for the money, maybe the "boringness" of any one sector may not matter too much.
Yeah I've looked on glassdoor and have been doing some googling, but I suppose from the horse's mouth would be better. Getting information for mid-tier and roles within industry is also a bit harder.
The money is way down on my list of priorities, I'm on decent enough money now and happy to take a paycut for a little while but I don't want my earnings to 'peak' in my mid-20s.
The money is way down on my list of priorities, I'm on decent enough money now and happy to take a paycut for a little while but I don't want my earnings to 'peak' in my mid-20s.
Starting salaries are around £27k in London and £21k in the regions, rising to around £40k post-qualification as you say. Beyond that it's a wide world out there but there's certainly potential to exceed your current salary once qualified. The institutes publish annual salary surveys, with breakdowns by age, location, sector and role. Most do leave for industry fairly soon after qualifying but have seen plenty go on international secondments, transfer to other service lines like Corporate Finance or pivot into roles like investment banking and financial journalism.
Big 4 graduate schemes are generally ACA/CA rather than ACCA. Most schemes are still block release but there are some schemes that front load the exams before setting you loose on clients while others may expect much more self study at evenings/weekends. Exams are very passable if your put the work in.
Hours vary hugely within firms, departments, even the same engagements. Some can be working long hours for weeks on end while others are strictly 9-5 even in busy season. Just avoid financial services audit as that has the worst hours and is the least interesting.
Generally external assurance isn't necessarily as bad as often made out. The regional offices often have the more interesting jobs - smaller clients means more smaller teams and more responsibility for trainees compared to those in London. They also tend to have a single assurance department covering all non-FS clients in the area whereas London offices organise departments by industry sectors. Internal Audit engagements is a big growth area, which might interest you as they tend to be unique and involve interviewing client staff to understand and report on the client's processes/risks/project implementations etc.
The work initially may be very basic and even appear box-ticking for the sake of box-ticking but you can learn a lot about how finance departments function through interaction with low and mid level client staff. At the end of the day, you get out what you put into the job.
Mid Tier is similar, just smaller scale and perhaps lower salaries.
Applications for September/October 2016 entry should be opening any day now, if not already open. No closing dates as such but the earlier you apply the better as schemes close once they have sufficient good enough applicants. Your age won't be an issue as long you're comfortable working for people 4-5 years younger than you and managers who are the same age. Your experience ought to help you stand out in interviews and assessment centres though.
Useful websites for finding out more are http://www.wikijob.co.uk and http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk
Big 4 graduate schemes are generally ACA/CA rather than ACCA. Most schemes are still block release but there are some schemes that front load the exams before setting you loose on clients while others may expect much more self study at evenings/weekends. Exams are very passable if your put the work in.
Hours vary hugely within firms, departments, even the same engagements. Some can be working long hours for weeks on end while others are strictly 9-5 even in busy season. Just avoid financial services audit as that has the worst hours and is the least interesting.
Generally external assurance isn't necessarily as bad as often made out. The regional offices often have the more interesting jobs - smaller clients means more smaller teams and more responsibility for trainees compared to those in London. They also tend to have a single assurance department covering all non-FS clients in the area whereas London offices organise departments by industry sectors. Internal Audit engagements is a big growth area, which might interest you as they tend to be unique and involve interviewing client staff to understand and report on the client's processes/risks/project implementations etc.
The work initially may be very basic and even appear box-ticking for the sake of box-ticking but you can learn a lot about how finance departments function through interaction with low and mid level client staff. At the end of the day, you get out what you put into the job.
Mid Tier is similar, just smaller scale and perhaps lower salaries.
Applications for September/October 2016 entry should be opening any day now, if not already open. No closing dates as such but the earlier you apply the better as schemes close once they have sufficient good enough applicants. Your age won't be an issue as long you're comfortable working for people 4-5 years younger than you and managers who are the same age. Your experience ought to help you stand out in interviews and assessment centres though.
Useful websites for finding out more are http://www.wikijob.co.uk and http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk
ninja-lewis said:
Big 4 graduate schemes are generally ACA/CA rather than ACCA. Most schemes are still block release but there are some schemes that front load the exams before setting you loose on clients while others may expect much more self study at evenings/weekends. Exams are very passable if your put the work in.
Hours vary hugely within firms, departments, even the same engagements. Some can be working long hours for weeks on end while others are strictly 9-5 even in busy season. Just avoid financial services audit as that has the worst hours and is the least interesting.
Generally external assurance isn't necessarily as bad as often made out. The regional offices often have the more interesting jobs - smaller clients means more smaller teams and more responsibility for trainees compared to those in London. They also tend to have a single assurance department covering all non-FS clients in the area whereas London offices organise departments by industry sectors.
Wot he sed. Hours vary hugely within firms, departments, even the same engagements. Some can be working long hours for weeks on end while others are strictly 9-5 even in busy season. Just avoid financial services audit as that has the worst hours and is the least interesting.
Generally external assurance isn't necessarily as bad as often made out. The regional offices often have the more interesting jobs - smaller clients means more smaller teams and more responsibility for trainees compared to those in London. They also tend to have a single assurance department covering all non-FS clients in the area whereas London offices organise departments by industry sectors.
I would avoid London Big4 unless you are willing to sign your life away for three years, potentially on something you discover you hate. Outside London the Big4 are more normal and you get a decent range of stuff to look at.
As someone who's just finishing a Masters, you're going to be older/more experienced/generally a bit more clued up than the average trainee. This doesn't mean that you'll get given any better work, and can reasonably expect to spend your first year doing very simple tasks and being micromanaged by someone three years younger than you. Outside the Big4, you might move faster, but you won't get the CV benefit.
Finally, future earnings: if you're willing to work a lot of hours you can go a long way in this business (there's a number of people on this forum that have done precisely that); if you can sell snow to Eskimos you'll go even further. If you make partner, annual income at the Big4 averages £700k, outside that drops quite rapidly. Some smaller firms have annual partner income of £100k a year... suddenly the extra hassle, sales and risk doesn't appeal.
That's why I work in internal audit, because I'm lazy but the money's good.
I work in external audit assurance for an independent CA firm, although I am ACCA myself.
The work we do is much tougher than it used to be when I started - more "thought" involved, and as noted above, the focus is on a risk based approach to the audit. The "ticking and bashing" that used to be the norm went long ago, and the regulatory burden in terms of auditing standards has increased massively - unlike the audit fees which haven't risen in line in the sector I work in. Very much a case of more for less, and we work our trainees and qualified staff pretty hard at the busy time of year - managers and partners act likewise.
The work in the larger independent firms is certainly very varied and you get to spend time with all sorts of different organisations - My portfolio includes charities (lots of them as I specialise in this area), housing associations, property investment and/or development, retailers, and FCA registered entities. Our staff should also develop accounts preparation skills which some might argue you don't get from the mid-tier or big-four firms, ie it is often more than just "auditing". Inevitably you get drawn into other related work as well such as management accounting, forecasting, reviews, due diligence and other advisory work.
You certainly shouldn't get bored, but it is hard work, and very frustrating if your busy period covers a time of the year when you like to get involved in outdoor pursuits.
You will also certainly earn more money once qualified by moving out of practice, and the many of our trainees, once qualified, go on to work in financial services in some form or other (helped by the endless supply of jobs where we are based) - I'm not convinced I wouldn't get bored doing that or working in industry, but regardless, the qualification and experience gives you all sorts of opportunity - if you stay in practice and are half-decent at your job you will never be out of work given the difficulty we have in finding good (sometime any) staff a lot of the time.
The work we do is much tougher than it used to be when I started - more "thought" involved, and as noted above, the focus is on a risk based approach to the audit. The "ticking and bashing" that used to be the norm went long ago, and the regulatory burden in terms of auditing standards has increased massively - unlike the audit fees which haven't risen in line in the sector I work in. Very much a case of more for less, and we work our trainees and qualified staff pretty hard at the busy time of year - managers and partners act likewise.
The work in the larger independent firms is certainly very varied and you get to spend time with all sorts of different organisations - My portfolio includes charities (lots of them as I specialise in this area), housing associations, property investment and/or development, retailers, and FCA registered entities. Our staff should also develop accounts preparation skills which some might argue you don't get from the mid-tier or big-four firms, ie it is often more than just "auditing". Inevitably you get drawn into other related work as well such as management accounting, forecasting, reviews, due diligence and other advisory work.
You certainly shouldn't get bored, but it is hard work, and very frustrating if your busy period covers a time of the year when you like to get involved in outdoor pursuits.
You will also certainly earn more money once qualified by moving out of practice, and the many of our trainees, once qualified, go on to work in financial services in some form or other (helped by the endless supply of jobs where we are based) - I'm not convinced I wouldn't get bored doing that or working in industry, but regardless, the qualification and experience gives you all sorts of opportunity - if you stay in practice and are half-decent at your job you will never be out of work given the difficulty we have in finding good (sometime any) staff a lot of the time.
Thanks all, very helpful It sounds like there'd always be something to aim for or work towards, which is what I'm currently missing. Funny how I spent most of my youth trying to get out of education and as soon as I manage it, getting back to learning and using my brain is all I want to do. Easy jobs are certainly overrated.
It sounds like there'd always be something to aim for or work towards, which is what I'm currently missing. Funny how I spent most of my youth trying to get out of education and as soon as I manage it, getting back to learning and using my brain is all I want to do. Easy jobs are certainly overrated. Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff