Brown sludge and low water in S3 swirl-pot.
Discussion
Hi All
My TVR S3 seems to be getting some brown 'sludge' on the swirl-pot filler cap and floating on the top of the water in the swirl-pot. It also seems to be using / losing water.
For example before the run to Millbrook the weekend I topped up the water in the swirl-pot and checking it again today after having covered <100 miles it took approx. 500ml of water to bring it back up to the top.
My concern is a head gasket issue but the few people I have spoken to (other TVR owners and a TVR specialist garage) all seem to say if it was a head gasket issue the water would be cloudy and it would not be running right. Also another S owner who uses their car very little said they get this 'sludge' and have had all sorts of compression checks and flushes etc and it still comes back?
My car sounds and drives lovely, the oil on the dip stick is clean and the coolant in the swirl-pot when it's topped up is clear apart from these odd blobs of floating brown sludge and it does not overheat at all. Also no smoke or anything unusual out the exhausts on start up, tick-over or when revved up.
Any thoughts, hopefully that put my mind at rest!?
My TVR S3 seems to be getting some brown 'sludge' on the swirl-pot filler cap and floating on the top of the water in the swirl-pot. It also seems to be using / losing water.
For example before the run to Millbrook the weekend I topped up the water in the swirl-pot and checking it again today after having covered <100 miles it took approx. 500ml of water to bring it back up to the top.
My concern is a head gasket issue but the few people I have spoken to (other TVR owners and a TVR specialist garage) all seem to say if it was a head gasket issue the water would be cloudy and it would not be running right. Also another S owner who uses their car very little said they get this 'sludge' and have had all sorts of compression checks and flushes etc and it still comes back?
My car sounds and drives lovely, the oil on the dip stick is clean and the coolant in the swirl-pot when it's topped up is clear apart from these odd blobs of floating brown sludge and it does not overheat at all. Also no smoke or anything unusual out the exhausts on start up, tick-over or when revved up.
Any thoughts, hopefully that put my mind at rest!?
Hi I'm intending replacing all the cooling pipes, hoses and swirl-pot at some point over winter with SS ones from ACT so that would be the ideal time to do a good flush. The car was sat for a long while (like 8 years) and it still has the original coolant as when I got it MOTed and Serviced to put it back on road they checked the coolant quality and it tested out all okay so they didn't change it.
Water level in my pot was more like 3+ inches down!
Water level in my pot was more like 3+ inches down!
They may have tested the antifreeze for effectiveness against freezing but the most important job the antifreeze does is protect against corrosion. The corrosion inhibitors are almost certainly exhausted by now so it will need a good flush and new antifreeze. If it used half a litre in 100 miles then you probably need to be looking for leaks or deteriorated pressure cap seals. Also check for leaks from the water pump particularly if its sat for 8 years as any moisture in there will have damaged the bearings.
Rob.
Rob.
Griffinr said:
They may have tested the antifreeze for effectiveness against freezing but the most important job the antifreeze does is protect against corrosion. The corrosion inhibitors are almost certainly exhausted by now so it will need a good flush and new antifreeze. If it used half a litre in 100 miles then you probably need to be looking for leaks or deteriorated pressure cap seals. Also check for leaks from the water pump particularly if its sat for 8 years as any moisture in there will have damaged the bearings.
Rob.
Okay get yer. As far as leaks go not getting any puddles anywhere and caps on swirl=pot and expansion bottle tight with good seals. Could it just be that the 'normal' level for my swirlpot is low as with Phils S?Rob.
Might be worth taking the radiator off and flushing it with the stuff used for central heating systems.See what the others say. In any event, remember to thoroughly hose out all the little fins on the outside of the rad as these small spaces fill up with crap over the years and reduce the air-flow.
Don't forget to flush through the heater matrix as well.
Have a look at the "double-barreled" combined swirl pot/expansion tanks ShaunS3C makes. These give you 1L capacity in the expansion tank so by half filling and leaving a large expansion space it solves a lot of the "venting off" issues.
As above, if it has been standing a while, new hoses and a new water pump are a very good idea.
Don't forget to flush through the heater matrix as well.
Have a look at the "double-barreled" combined swirl pot/expansion tanks ShaunS3C makes. These give you 1L capacity in the expansion tank so by half filling and leaving a large expansion space it solves a lot of the "venting off" issues.
As above, if it has been standing a while, new hoses and a new water pump are a very good idea.
It's possible the inlet manifold gasket's leaking if it's mixing oil and coolant (which it sounds like it is). Sludge/mayo doesn't form in coolant for no reason (it can form in oil due to lack of use), and if it's stuck to the cap chances are it's oil-based. You've just got to go round eliminating any areas where oil could come into contact with coolant. And yes, change the coolant - it's probably well past it's use-by date!
I'm not sure why an S swirl pot should settle 2ins from the top as the cap is designed to allow coolant to bleed back into the swirl pot as the system cools - not getting into the which cap goes where though .... although a rubber washer under the swirl pot cap stopped the little leak there on mine so when the system was bled ok the swirl pot was full when cold (OK .... and the pressure cap was on the swirl pot ...
).
Jim
).Jim
Capgate?
Swirl pot cap is the cap of great importance. It must seal properly (no nasty cheap necks, rubber seals missing or poor sealing) and it must have the return valve and it must be the right length to reach the bottom face of the neck. Header tank is a fixed cap but vents to atmosphere through another hole.
Once that all works it will always hold water to within 1/4" of full if the rest of the system is good.
Plastic header tanks are best disposed of and replaced with stainless as they get a bit brittle near the exhausts - but not essential. These are usually about half full when working well.
Swirl pot cap is the cap of great importance. It must seal properly (no nasty cheap necks, rubber seals missing or poor sealing) and it must have the return valve and it must be the right length to reach the bottom face of the neck. Header tank is a fixed cap but vents to atmosphere through another hole.
Once that all works it will always hold water to within 1/4" of full if the rest of the system is good.
Plastic header tanks are best disposed of and replaced with stainless as they get a bit brittle near the exhausts - but not essential. These are usually about half full when working well.
Swirl pot dilemma deepens as been reading some other post on this forum and I was going for an ACT S.Steel swirl pot but I have seen various posts saying they leak after a short time (<12 Months) and people have had issues with getting a good cap seal... So now a bit 'put off' from buying one from ACT unless they have got their 'ACT together' (Excuse the pun)!! :-)
As far as my brown Mayo deposits and lower swirl pot water level goes I'm getting rather more worried as I have no visible evidence of leaks anywhere when the car is running and yet water is going somewhere and the sludge is coming from somewhere... Don't think its a head gasket as no steam out exhaust and oil filler cap and dip stick clean as a whistle so maybe it is inlet manifold like R.K. suggested... If so that seems like a big expensive job, how do I check this without a trip to TVR A&E?
Cheers M
As far as my brown Mayo deposits and lower swirl pot water level goes I'm getting rather more worried as I have no visible evidence of leaks anywhere when the car is running and yet water is going somewhere and the sludge is coming from somewhere... Don't think its a head gasket as no steam out exhaust and oil filler cap and dip stick clean as a whistle so maybe it is inlet manifold like R.K. suggested... If so that seems like a big expensive job, how do I check this without a trip to TVR A&E?
Cheers M
TVRHasgo said:
Swirl pot dilemma deepens as been reading some other post on this forum and I was going for an ACT S.Steel swirl pot but I have seen various posts saying they leak after a short time (<12 Months) and people have had issues with getting a good cap seal... So now a bit 'put off' from buying one from ACT unless they have got their 'ACT together' (Excuse the pun)!! :-)
As far as my brown Mayo deposits and lower swirl pot water level goes I'm getting rather more worried as I have no visible evidence of leaks anywhere when the car is running and yet water is going somewhere and the sludge is coming from somewhere... Don't think its a head gasket as no steam out exhaust and oil filler cap and dip stick clean as a whistle so maybe it is inlet manifold like R.K. suggested... If so that seems like a big expensive job, how do I check this without a trip to TVR A&E?
Cheers M
If the system is working properly there should be little or no air in the swirl pot as the system is designed to push any air out into the expansion tank when hot and then draw back fluid into the swirl pot as it cools down. What is the condition of the caps and where are they located?As far as my brown Mayo deposits and lower swirl pot water level goes I'm getting rather more worried as I have no visible evidence of leaks anywhere when the car is running and yet water is going somewhere and the sludge is coming from somewhere... Don't think its a head gasket as no steam out exhaust and oil filler cap and dip stick clean as a whistle so maybe it is inlet manifold like R.K. suggested... If so that seems like a big expensive job, how do I check this without a trip to TVR A&E?
Cheers M
The pressure cap should ideally be on the swirl pot and should have a rubber seal under the cap that seats on the filler neck and a return valve at the other end. If this is not all working properly you will lose water and probably not see where it’s going.
As far as the sludge goes I wouldn’t worry about that till the system is thoroughly flushed and refilled. If you still have sludge after that then that’s the time to worry.
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