Changing Fashions
Discussion
As a detailer specialising in Classic and Vintage cars I find myself receiving more and more enquiries from owners who do not wish for perfectly finished paintwork, rather those who want to preserve the patination that their car has picked up during its lifetime. Have tastes changed?
To be frank, I prefer to see a bit of "life" on a car and whilst it should be clean (with dirt comes corrosion) a nicely weathered finish shows that a car has some history. Surely that should be preserved?
To be frank, I prefer to see a bit of "life" on a car and whilst it should be clean (with dirt comes corrosion) a nicely weathered finish shows that a car has some history. Surely that should be preserved?
The problem is that some owners want either pristine or patinated - and will spend whatever is necessary to create that look, both being entirely artificial and thus as bad as each other . Having said that I love the distressed look of some VSCC cars which I see at Cadwell and Harewood and which I am quite sure are 'real' .I am also rather drawn to rat look drag racers. Both are preferable to the ludicrous pantomime of various salon prive/Pebble Beach pantomimes. Nothing more tragic than a gleaming F40 which has done fewer miles in its 25 years than I do a month. Drive 'em and to hell with the stone chips !
I was hugely impressed with an elderly gent I met a few years ago at a race circuit- he was admiring my Seven and telling me his son was competing in his own T35 Bugatti (respect) ; the gent himself told me he drove down through France every summer in his 1920 something Bugatti Brescia- that's what classics are for - not being gurned over by bloody Jodie Kidd et al at some eurotrash extravaganza -the sort of event which Octane magazine wet their corporate trousers over....
I was hugely impressed with an elderly gent I met a few years ago at a race circuit- he was admiring my Seven and telling me his son was competing in his own T35 Bugatti (respect) ; the gent himself told me he drove down through France every summer in his 1920 something Bugatti Brescia- that's what classics are for - not being gurned over by bloody Jodie Kidd et al at some eurotrash extravaganza -the sort of event which Octane magazine wet their corporate trousers over....
I think as classic values have shot back up some collectors have realised there isn't so much value in, for example a perfect E-Type when anyone can buy one, pay to have it fully restored and make a profit. Suddenly a degree of that rarity value is gone. On the other hand the number of E-Types with orginal paint, even if it is a little faded and not as shiny as a freshly resprayed car will only ever go down, making them rarer and so in collector terms more valuable.
My 1928 vauxhall saloon is busy with hire duties, as well as for my own enjoyment, each and every prospective client is invited to inspect the car prior to booking. The interior of the car is Bedford cord in an oatmeal colour, it is original showing heavy water-stains, thread bare in places and generally full of old age (patina). I always advise my clients that the material is actually clean but stained with water ingress and 88 years of wear,that I am not about to replace it with shiny new leather or new upholstery any time soon. Each and every person has replied along the lines 'no don't replace it, it's wonderful and shows the age and character of the car, its what we want. They then go on making a booking.
At some point somebody is bound to refuse the car but it certainly appears to me that patina is preferred.
At some point somebody is bound to refuse the car but it certainly appears to me that patina is preferred.
Picture this , two E types for sale , one a fully restored blinged up 65 convertable , the other in original condition but needing to be recommissioned .
Needless to say the bling sells within a couple of days , the other ?
Lets just say the chassis number was under 50 , and worth maybe 5 times more than the other , but people just ignored it , boring colour , tired trim , tatty wheels , well used but an absolute joy to drive .
I know which one I preferred but until those numbers come up its just a dream .
Needless to say the bling sells within a couple of days , the other ?
Lets just say the chassis number was under 50 , and worth maybe 5 times more than the other , but people just ignored it , boring colour , tired trim , tatty wheels , well used but an absolute joy to drive .
I know which one I preferred but until those numbers come up its just a dream .
grumpy52 said:
Picture this , two E types for sale , one a fully restored blinged up 65 convertable , the other in original condition but needing to be recommissioned .
Needless to say the bling sells within a couple of days , the other ?
Lets just say the chassis number was under 50 , and worth maybe 5 times more than the other , but people just ignored it , boring colour , tired trim , tatty wheels , well used but an absolute joy to drive .
I know which one I preferred but until those numbers come up its just a dream .
OK, I sympathise, but used and enjoyed with wear and patina does not mean it should be tatty or dishevelled though...Needless to say the bling sells within a couple of days , the other ?
Lets just say the chassis number was under 50 , and worth maybe 5 times more than the other , but people just ignored it , boring colour , tired trim , tatty wheels , well used but an absolute joy to drive .
I know which one I preferred but until those numbers come up its just a dream .
I love to see both original and pristine. I'm not a fan of "fake patina", though I'd be more bothered if someone was trying to pass it off as real. I love to see something that's been restored to perfect condition, and I don't really object to something being better than it would ever have been originally as long, again, as the owner isn't trying to suggest it's original. But equally, some of the cars that caught my eye at Prescott last weekend were those that had obviously been well-used - the Jensen CV8 in the car park with rust on the back wing, dull paint and plenty of stone chips was just as appealing as the immaculate Bentley Continental.
Real patina for me every time, over bling over restoration.
Was at Bicester Heritage the other week for the ROG cruise, and was looking over a lovely Massa 3500 with superb patina and originality. Sales guy was hoping that it would be kept that way and not bought and restored. Lovely smell to it, and having come in from Sicily, it even had some dubious past owner history to add some flavour to it's past.
Was at Bicester Heritage the other week for the ROG cruise, and was looking over a lovely Massa 3500 with superb patina and originality. Sales guy was hoping that it would be kept that way and not bought and restored. Lovely smell to it, and having come in from Sicily, it even had some dubious past owner history to add some flavour to it's past.
aeropilot said:
Real patina for me every time, over bling over restoration.
Same here. None of our bikes (mainly 1920s) have been restored, unless there really is no option.Most have scrapes, dents, bent oil lines etc from people falling off them, leaning them in hedges to work on them and generally using them over their lifetimes.
To me that's what makes an old vehicle interesting. I know of at least one American board track racer that has been recently 'de-restored' which is even worse than a fancy bling resto, in my opinion!
aeropilot said:
Real patina for me every time, over bling over restoration.
There's a lot to be said for that, unfortunately with a lot of vehicles it's just not possible. My current project (it's rare, but it's not necessarily of wide interest) simply wouldn't exist if it wasn't being restored. For various historical reasons it's been left outside and enough had gone that anything less than a complete restoration wasn't possible. And because of that, it will have to have new shiny paint, and if I don't deal with the trim at the same time then it will let the rest down.In the choice between interestingly patinated and restored, patinated is good. But if the choice is between restored to shiny showroom condition and left to rot away completely, I'd take restored.
droopsnoot said:
There's a lot to be said for that, unfortunately with a lot of vehicles it's just not possible. My current project (it's rare, but it's not necessarily of wide interest) simply wouldn't exist if it wasn't being restored. For various historical reasons it's been left outside and enough had gone that anything less than a complete restoration wasn't possible. And because of that, it will have to have new shiny paint, and if I don't deal with the trim at the same time then it will let the rest down.
In the choice between interestingly patinated and restored, patinated is good. But if the choice is between restored to shiny showroom condition and left to rot away completely, I'd take restored.
Of course.In the choice between interestingly patinated and restored, patinated is good. But if the choice is between restored to shiny showroom condition and left to rot away completely, I'd take restored.
Next best to original patina, is older full restoration that has been used, and started to get it's 2nd patina, rather than the 'over-restored and never used trailer queen look'.
Dr Interceptor said:
droopsnoot said:
the Jensen CV8 in the car park with rust on the back wing
I'd hope not, they were fibreglass! Only the doors were aluminium, the rest of the body was all fibreglass.grumpy52 said:
Picture this , two E types for sale , one a fully restored blinged up 65 convertable , the other in original condition but needing to be recommissioned .
Needless to say the bling sells within a couple of days , the other ?
Seems that things are changing though...Needless to say the bling sells within a couple of days , the other ?
http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/unrestored-gu...
I feel like a lot of these "blingy" restorations are just bad restorations in my eyes. Mind you not bad from a technical standpoint. They use the very latest fillers, epoxy primers and paints for perfect shine. 100% perfect shut lines, far better than on current cars. Visually perfect reproduction parts. Higher quality materials in the interior.
A good and authentically restored car is as it left the factory, not better.
The big difference between the "blingy" and the original restoration is that the blingy car starts to look worse over time while the original restoration regains patina.
Of course very few enthusiasts go for the authentic/original restoration - you pay far more than a perfect "blingy" restoration would cost and end up with what 99% of the population views as a "worse" result.
A good and authentically restored car is as it left the factory, not better.
The big difference between the "blingy" and the original restoration is that the blingy car starts to look worse over time while the original restoration regains patina.
Of course very few enthusiasts go for the authentic/original restoration - you pay far more than a perfect "blingy" restoration would cost and end up with what 99% of the population views as a "worse" result.
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff