Squats... ROM?

[Otispunkmeyer]

So was in the gym the other day and this woman is using the squat rack. She's got the bar well loaded at 120 kg, I mean in my opinion 120 is heavy because my best is about 80kg! Shes very svelte too, not big or bulky by any stretch. So I was massively impressed.

Then I watched her doing a few squats.... If she bent her knees more than 30 degrees I'd be surprised. Proper shallow.

Now my question is, is doing heavy weight with such little movement actually worth doing? I don't go for Ass-To-Grass but I do try to get parallel in order to count a rep as a good one. My best parallel squat is a 5x5 set of 80 kg. I can just about do this. Oddly my 1 RM isn't much higher, certainly not 120!

But if I do less than half the movement I can put a fair bit more on. Question is whats the benefit? Do you get some sort of effect from essentially over loading?

[chris watton]

I don't think there is much of a benefit to just bending your legs slightly with loads of weight. I guess it could be argued that it could have negative effects, as you are really supporting more weight than your body can cope with, with massive pressure on the back.

I made this mistake when I first started, thought I was strong 'squatting' with 150kg - until I filmed myself, and they were pathetic. had to go back to the start, with much lighter weight and re-practiced the proper deeper form (parallel). Much, much harder, but ultimately much better for you.

I am sure that proper ROM in any weight lifting exercise is very important, as it strengthens all muscles affected, thus preventing any potential imbalance and injury.

[liam1986]

hip crease below the knee at the bottom of a squat, or its not a squat.

cracks me up the amount of people that think they can 'squat' 150kg+ and when I watch I'd bet they would struggle doing 1 proper rep with 80kg

[Tallow]

This is the thing, I suppose. Technique is more important than weight, but the amount of times you'll see people showboating big weights in the gym with poor technique is quite surprising.

I'm not an expert, but I'd have thought that doing that with very high weight has to be a risk for injuring your back, too. Personally, I tend to do front squats on the basis that they seem to feel a bit better for balance. It means lower weight, but I'm doing it to get stronger, not to impress people about how much I can lift.

That said, there's a girl who squats in the gym at the same time I do a late night session and she's impressively strong at 80kg, with good technique and full range and she's pretty small (well, not massive) too.

[SpunkyGlory]

Slightly off topic but I've recently changed my squat technique following some feedback from a PT, as I was putting to much weight through my toes rather than my heels. While the squats feel a lot better and I'm now able to go deeper, I've also noticed I get a really sharp pain if I go to deep (more noticeable on front squats). The pain is best described as a sharp burning pain, at the top of my right thigh almost in the pubic region.

After reading a couple of articles it seems this might be caused by my Hip Flexor being tight, does this sound like the probable cause?

[944fan]

SpunkyGlory said:

After reading a couple of articles it seems this might be caused by my Hip Flexor being tight, does this sound like the probable cause?

I swim a lot and spend most of day swimming at a desk. Consequently my hip flexors are very tight and they are aggravated when doing squats.

Get a foam roller and lie face down on it position it at your help flexor on one leg. Bend the other leg out to the side and rest on the knee. Roll away. You will look like you are humping the roller so you might want to do it at home. Swap legs. Then stretch the flexors by knelling on one knee with the other foot flat and push forward till you feel the stretch.

I do that every night, keeps them lose.

[Hoofy]

chris watton said:

I don't think there is much of a benefit to just bending your legs slightly with loads of weight. I guess it could be argued that it could have negative effects, as you are really supporting more weight than your body can cope with, with massive pressure on the back.

I made this mistake when I first started, thought I was strong 'squatting' with 150kg - until I filmed myself, and they were pathetic. had to go back to the start, with much lighter weight and re-practiced the proper deeper form (parallel). Much, much harder, but ultimately much better for you.

I am sure that proper ROM in any weight lifting exercise is very important, as it strengthens all muscles affected, thus preventing any potential imbalance and injury.

Pah. That's not deep. A2G, mister!

WRT your previous statement about negative effects, if you build up to it with a 30 degree partial squat, you'll be good at doing 30 degree partial squats, surely, so your body can cope with the heavy load but just not if you suddenly do an A2G squat.

[didelydoo]

Try to get as full a range of movement as is comfortable. Partial squats have their place, but not if you can't already do a full squat.

[Otispunkmeyer]

944fan said:

SpunkyGlory said:

After reading a couple of articles it seems this might be caused by my Hip Flexor being tight, does this sound like the probable cause?

I swim a lot and spend most of day swimming at a desk. Consequently my hip flexors are very tight and they are aggravated when doing squats.

Get a foam roller and lie face down on it position it at your help flexor on one leg. Bend the other leg out to the side and rest on the knee. Roll away. You will look like you are humping the roller so you might want to do it at home. Swap legs. Then stretch the flexors by knelling on one knee with the other foot flat and push forward till you feel the stretch.

I do that every night, keeps them lose.

I do these at home (or when I am the only person in the gym... as in the only guy, even the owner isn't there) for the same reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1KEiksHH2M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMSWhbeSGk0

I struggle to keep my hands and arms flat on the wall though. They tend to come forward.

[Hoofy]

Otispunkmeyer said:

I struggle to keep my hands and arms flat on the wall though. They tend to come forward.

Poor shoulder mobility. Do strict shoulder dislocates with a broom handle: https://www.trainonline.com/shoulder-dislocates-ex...
Cheating is wasting time so arms straight and wide apart, keep your body straight (don't stick out your chest or tum to compensate). Will take months to notice any improvement but it will come.

[Otispunkmeyer]

Hoofy said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

I struggle to keep my hands and arms flat on the wall though. They tend to come forward.

Poor shoulder mobility. Do strict shoulder dislocates with a broom handle: https://www.trainonline.com/shoulder-dislocates-ex...
Cheating is wasting time so arms straight and wide apart, keep your body straight (don't stick out your chest or tum to compensate). Will take months to notice any improvement but it will come.

Cheers pet. I always wondered what they were for and thought it was some kind of warm up exercise. I try to stretch out my lats/shoulders by facing a wall, putting my hands up in stream line and then pushing them to make it go behind my head. I will give these a go too... I take it intermediate and hard versions of this are different width grips?

Anyway this if I can get some extra mobility in the shoulders should help with my fly and fly kick UW. Do you know what would cause the poor mobility in the first place? Is it muscles being too strong on the front vs the back?

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 10th August 17:29

[hajaba123]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Cheers pet. I always wondered what they were for and thought it was some kind of warm up exercise. I try to stretch out my lats/shoulders by facing a wall, putting my hands up in stream line and then pushing them to make it go behind my head. I will give these a go too... I take it intermediate and hard versions of this are different width grips?

Anyway this if I can get some extra mobility in the shoulders should help with my fly and fly kick UW. Do you know what would cause the poor mobility in the first place? Is it muscles being too strong on the front vs the back?

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 10th August 17:29

Probably that and also thoracic mobility, get googling, get some lacrosse balls and try to hide your pain face when fixing it!

[Hoofy]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Hoofy said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

I struggle to keep my hands and arms flat on the wall though. They tend to come forward.

Poor shoulder mobility. Do strict shoulder dislocates with a broom handle: https://www.trainonline.com/shoulder-dislocates-ex...
Cheating is wasting time so arms straight and wide apart, keep your body straight (don't stick out your chest or tum to compensate). Will take months to notice any improvement but it will come.

Cheers pet. I always wondered what they were for and thought it was some kind of warm up exercise. I try to stretch out my lats/shoulders by facing a wall, putting my hands up in stream line and then pushing them to make it go behind my head. I will give these a go too... I take it intermediate and hard versions of this are different width grips?

Anyway this if I can get some extra mobility in the shoulders should help with my fly and fly kick UW. Do you know what would cause the poor mobility in the first place? Is it muscles being too strong on the front vs the back?

Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Monday 10th August 17:29

I don't do stretching as a warm up - do it on rest days or as a cool down. These will work the shoulders differently to the exercise you mention. To make it harder, just move your hands closer together while keeping your arms straight and not sticking your chest/tum out. Some people can do it with their hands together!!

How does it happen? Years of desk diving, hunched over a keyboard to nicely stretch the back muscles and tighten/shorten the chest muscles.

[benaldo]

I do find that doing heavier weights with a smaller ROM does assist me with 'proper' squats at a lower weight. As the weight increases with 50-60% ROM, then my 'proper' squats also increase as they now feel easier to complete. Therefore, my proper squats are often 20-30kg under my poor squats but it kinda prepares your body for the increase in weights and makes you believe you can actually do them.

Dunno if that makes much sense!??!?

[MrBarry123]

Allows you to continue squatting if injured?

[LordGrover]

I used to just 'shoulder the weight' occasionally.
When I was doing 5x5 north of 100kgs I was getting 1. exhausted and 2. a little fearful.
To help psyche myself up I found it useful to simply unrack a decent amount above my working weight periodically. Gave the CNS a bit of a shock and I think prepared me for what was to come.
e.g. If workout was 5x5 120kgs I'd pop an extra couple of tens on, maybe a little more, and just unrack and stand for a few moments. Maybe even a 'mini-squat' or two.

Not sure if that's wise if you're already squatting 200kgs plus though.

[chris watton]

LordGrover said:

I used to just 'shoulder the weight' occasionally.
When I was doing 5x5 north of 100kgs I was getting 1. exhausted and 2. a little fearful.
To help psyche myself up I found it useful to simply unrack a decent amount above my working weight periodically. Gave the CNS a bit of a shock and I think prepared me for what was to come.
e.g. If workout was 5x5 120kgs I'd pop an extra couple of tens on, maybe a little more, and just unrack and stand for a few moments. Maybe even a 'mini-squat' or two.

Not sure if that's wise if you're already squatting 200kgs plus though.

I find calf raises good for this, as you can pile on the weight!

[didelydoo]

When squats get very heavy, I found the walk out harder than the actual squat!

[LordGrover]

didelydoo said:

When squats get very heavy, I found the walk out harder than the actual squat!

Yes, but you're doing properly heavy, not medium 'heavy' like we normals.

[DSharp]

didelydoo said:

When squats get very heavy, I found the walk out harder than the actual squat!

I would definitely agree with that!!