To MSc or not MSc...

[Conor D]

Without going into too much detail, my Education/Career history looks a little like this:

- Undergraduate Placement working in the Automotive Industry (12 Months)
- BEng Mechanical Engineering (Non Russell Group - 2:2 - had a bad year when I returned after a year long Placement)
- Graduate Design Engineer role (12 Months - Still in this role at the minute)

When I graduated last summer. I had received an offer for a position at a Russell Group University for an MSc in Advanced Mechanical Engineering. I decided to go out and get some experience instead.

I don't see the progression in my current job in terms of Financial progression, career or personal development that I have experienced during my placement.. Which I would like to have.

I now have another offer for the same University as 12 months ago for the same MSc degree. At the time I debated if Experience would trump additional qualifications. It's a now or never time for doing the MSc as I can't imagine doing it a few years down the line...

I think about where I would like to be in 5 years time and can't decide if my current situation may hold me back... and if doing the MSc now might be worth it (it might not help me in the slightest).

I have the money to do it so that is not an issue at the minute. I'm looking for other opinions on whether or not it would really be paying off, or if it could be a waste of time vs gaining more experience still...

[CubanPete]

You may need an MSc if you want to get chartered, though this is only 'needed' in a few industries.

There are lots of engineering jobs out there at the moment if you are prepared to travel

[randlemarcus]

You are in a competitive industry (and always will be). You have the opportunity to put yourself beyond spotty Kev with his degree from Wolverhampton, and some small bit that you can point to when you re-emerge from academia saying "Can do, not just talk about".

You've no reason to stay earning, i.e. wife and kids, and you get to mess with Freshers again.

Get it done, lad - probably worht talking to your current employer, see if you can work something out for the holidays, to keep a) current with them and b) a tiny income.

[rog007]

Any opportunity to learn should be grasped. If it's attached to a Masters, all the better. Even better still if you do it now ahead of the competition whilst you have no other distractions. Good luck!

[bucksmanuk]

Pick your masters carefully
you must have an idea which direction of technology/business you want to go in by now, so do some homework and choose your MSc which is the most recognised in that field, easier said than done I know....

[Conor D]

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

bucksmanuk said:

Pick your masters carefully
you must have an idea which direction of technology/business you want to go in by now, so do some homework and choose your MSc which is the most recognised in that field, easier said than done I know....

I do know a few people who have graduated with a BEng degree and then did a MSc in a different subject such as Business Management. I had thought at times that this could be beneficial to diversify but the Engineering MSc seems to be fairly broad in its scope.

Do you make this point for Engineering careers also?

[pimpchez]

I am exactly 4 years into graduate roles. I didn't see the "point" in spending another 2 years (part time) going down the MSc route , their wasnt any "graduate" 20-30k jobs that asked for it. I struggled to find jobs that actually did.

I wouldn't call a 2:2 a bad year either , you have found a job just fine. I was in the same boat 4 years ago , and i just moved jobs until i finally had the "experience" to end up in the automotive industry as a project manager. My advise would be to stick it out 18months then move on. Its nigh on impossible to get a decent raise in the same role.

[bucksmanuk]

I can only speak for engineering careers- coz that’s wot I is doing…. (For 29 years….)
What is involved in an "Advanced Mechanical Engineering" MSc? - By this I mean…..
What’s the subject matter?
Where do the graduates go and work?
What jobs does it lead to?
What positions do they get to?
What’s the spread of companies they go and work for?
Do they earn shed loads? (Optimism always helps in engineering…)

I can only speak from my own experience, but I had 2 favoured options for a M.Sc. - one in robotics and the other in Rotating Machines. The robotics degree meant I would work with robot technology (unsurprisingly), but the Rotating Machines course meant I had more subject matter that could easily lead into other areas.
As stated above, and from me the same, get some more experience under your belt, you will hit an MSc with FAR more purpose after 5 years’ experience than a reasonably fresh graduate. It was 5 years in my case.
Although if others have another point of view, theirs is just as valid…

[Conor D]

bucksmanuk said:

I can only speak for engineering careers- coz that’s wot I is doing…. (For 29 years….)
What is involved in an "Advanced Mechanical Engineering" MSc? - By this I mean…..
What’s the subject matter?
Where do the graduates go and work?
What jobs does it lead to?
What positions do they get to?
What’s the spread of companies they go and work for?
Do they earn shed loads? (Optimism always helps in engineering…)

I don't know if I can answer all of these.. This is an outline of the course content below:

Compressible Flow and Fluid Machines
Computational Fluid Dynamics
Design and Simulation Integration
Design for Manufacture
Finite Element Analysis
Fracture Mechanics
Research Methods
Strength of Materials

Optional modules
Biomaterials and Medical Devices
Composite Materials
Composite Structures
Internal Combustion Engines
Nuclear Engineering
Operations Management in the New Economy
Polymer Processing
Solid Mechanics for Polymer Engineering
Sustainable Transportation Systems
Turbomachinery

I know a number of people who have completed the MEng degree at this school, and I believe the modules are similar for the final year of the MEng and MSc.

They are working in a mixture of the Auto Industry, Aerospace industry and General project roles. I have heard first hand that a large, specialist, historic Auto manufacturer in the UK are fans of hiring out of this school.

[bucksmanuk]

How many of the above options do you do? A real danger (in my mind) of spreading yourself too thinly here. My first thoughts are that some of these specialisms are suitable for MSc further study all on their own.
Do most of the grads off this MSc head towards a certain jet engine manufacturer in the Derby area? or something more "big cat" based? If that’s where you want to go, do the MSc, but think about it VERY CAREFULLY.
I hope others pitch in here with their thoughts, as there are almost as many career paths and options in engineering as there are engineers.

[a311]

Generally I would say the main focus of a Masters is to head towards chartership, does chartership get you further is a bigger argument.

I'm finding the majority of engineering graduates coming in these days have done the integrated masters courses (MEng/MChem. From my own experience my qualifications are ticks in the boxes rather than advancing my career, which I put down to experience, taking internal oppurtunities to gain more experience and generally being thrown in at the deep end.

I guess at a paper sift the MSc will get you ahead. At interviews all things being equal I'm more concerned how a candiate generally comes across, and how they'll fit in.

I'm going to say it's not worth the personal outlay over experience. MSc is only 2 years part time so I'd think agian in the future depending how your career pans out. You may already be aware that to progress will mean less time hands on and more likely than not skills you pick over time will be what gets you into management type roles (if that's what you want).

Also despite it seems having attended on I'd never heard of the 'Russell Group'universities until I came onto this section of the forums.

[bearman68]

For me after 30 odd years in heavy engineering, it's been very very rare that I have needed to use any more than basic engineering knowledge in my day to day role. The day to day tends in my experience to be very specific to the process in which you are working - I spent 3 or 4 years looking at fractured glass - took me about a year to learn the nitty gritty, and it was very useful and profitable while doing so. Now having moved to new fields, it's a useless piece of understanding, that is occasionally nice to trot out when a wine glass breaks. Similar results for furnace combustion and heat distribution, etc etc - you name it.
So, my observation is that the best engineers are also good people managers, and not just technical bods. The MSc is progressing you more in a technical field where you are already miles ahead of the basic knowledge you need, and (probably) miles behind in your specific industry understanding. Your salary and career progression will be with these and not the Msc, unless you plan to teach.
That's not a reason for not doing an MSc, it's just that it's really an unnecessary addition.

[Conor D]

a311 said:

I'm finding the majority of engineering graduates coming in these days have done the integrated masters courses (MEng/MChem. From my own experience my qualifications are ticks in the boxes rather than advancing my career, which I put down to experience, taking internal oppurtunities to gain more experience and generally being thrown in at the deep end.

One of my motivations of doing a MSc would be to avoid the possibility of being an easy person to lose in the application process if I was to be up against another candidate with similar experience, who went to a better school. I'm not saying there are any rules in place for this to happen but I expect that this occurs (even subconsciously), and I want to make sure I have the best chance at this stage to ensure I can get interviews for the positions I want.

ETA:

I feel that my education is the weak part of my CV. I have more experience than other graduates that I know of personally but on paper I lack the same standard of education - either by the 2:2 qualification or the Non Russell Group University.

I may be totally incorrect in my thinking.

Edited by Conor D on Thursday 13th August 13:38

[a311]

Conor D said:

One of my motivations of doing a MSc would be to avoid the possibility of being an easy person to lose in the application process if I was to be up against another candidate with similar experience, who went to a better school. I'm not saying there are any rules in place for this to happen but I expect that this occurs (even subconsciously), and I want to make sure I have the best chance at this stage to ensure I can get interviews for the positions I want.

ETA:

I feel that my education is the weak part of my CV. I have more experience than other graduates that I know of personally but on paper I lack the same standard of education - either by the 2:2 qualification or the Non Russell Group University.

I may be totally incorrect in my thinking.

Edited by Conor D on Thursday 13th August 13:38

I really couldn't give two about which university a candidate went to. Realistically you're going to need 3-5 years experience to apply against other positions other than graduate type roles. I can't think of a role that has specifically asked for a masters. I have a masters but did it part time and my employer paid for it.

I work in R&D (nuclear) so it will change from one organisation to another. My employer seem to put a lot of stock into academic qualifications, plenty of people with PhD's but in turn not many of them know the pointy end of a spanner..... I would/do honestly judge a candidate on experience.