Supercharged z4m or 996 turbo

[gav2612]

I'm In a bit of a dilemma. I currently own a 2006 z4m coupe. I've had it for around a year and enjoyed driving it however it's a weekend car and my last 3 weekend cars have all had 300+ bhp (5.0 chimera, 996 carrera 2, e46 m3 and now the Z) my daily driver is a remapped e90 285 bhp 330d. to call the m coupe slow would be silly, but I'm now looking for something with that bit more after a number of similarly quick cars. I drove an f430 a couple of years ago at a track day and the 480bhp or so in that light body was properly fast, but unfortunately just a little out of my budget! I am now considering either a VT1 or VT2 kit for the z4m or alternatively selling it and going for a 996 turbo.
Whilst the Mcoupe has only done 40,000 miles, it was a CAT D back in 2007 (extensive bodywork but no chassis damage) so is worth probably £11k - £12k. I have done all work on my own cars now for over 15 yrs, and recently supercharged my mx5 track car so would be fairly comfy with DIY'ing the supercharger conversion and just paying someone to tune it if required.. I reckon I could be in to the z4m for just over £20k including kw V3's and would look to pick up a second hand BBK to stop it. If and when I sell I can strip the parts and would expect to get the best part of £5k second hand for them.

I'd be looking at a much higher mileage 996 turbo and another £10k or so if I was going that way, however it's a 911 turbo! I thoroughly enjoyed driving the 996 carrera 2 I owned probably more than the Mcoupe and it did feel just that bit more special. I didn't however enjoy the price of parts and how hard it was to work on. I also know the turbo handling is much less sharp, but again it's a 911 turbo!

Does anyone have any experience of a supercharged Z4m in relation to in gear acceleration and comparisons with a 996 turbo? I know beedub sometimes posts on here and has the vt2,kit. Any thoughts or views welcomed

[Easty-5]

Beedub is indeed your man. I believe he has owned a few porks as well do should be able to give a good opinion. The Z4M is a very, very difficult car to replace without spending a LOT more money. It's a very quick car for the money in standard form. I think the only way to get a quicker car for the same money is to go jap. A modified Evo or Impreza for example.

[gav2612]

Thanks for the comments. I've already been down the fast subaru route in my mid twenties. It was great at the time, but i'm past that now. The 996 turbo would be awesome, but whether I could stretch to plowing the best part of £30k in to a second car I'm just not sure. The parts bills and lack of easy DIY on the 911 worries me and I'm just not sure the handling is going to be that much more enjoyable than the Z4M. My pro's and cons list below

Z4M. Pro's: Already own it and know what I have, cheaper, lower miles, easier to work on, relatively cheap parts in comparison, equally as fast as 911 turbo? more fun?
Con's: Reliabilty of the car with supercharger conversion? Re sale value, higher insurance of modded car, higher road tax

911 Turbo: Pro's: Proven reliable engine, running standard with no mods(until I felt the need to remap it!) better ride quality, resale value, cheaper insurance and road tax and its a 911 Turbo!
Con's: Initial cost, older and higher miles, less easy to work on, higher parts prices, not as sharp handling?

Any more comments greatly appreciated.

[Cactussed]

My concern would be that once the novelty of outright acceleration had worn off (and it does), you'd be left with a car which is so competent that it ultimately becomes a bit dull.

The Z4 on the other hand, N/A or S/C is an opportunity to go sideways at will.

I'd stick with what you know.

[JMBMWM5]

High mile porsches are a NO NO, lots of engine problems on the horizon IMO, steer clear unless rebuilt with bills.

[olliete]

Noble M12

[paulmc]

Go drive the porsche. I sold my F10 M5 as i thought i wanted an older classic type car. IT IS RUBBISH. I hated it from the word go. Lasted about 3k miles and sold.

Hard
noisy
uncomfy
slow
old tech, not toys inside
gearbox is from the stoneage
steering is weird. does not inspire confidence
cramped
no room for any luggage.

The list goes on lol.

[likesachange]

How did the f10 compare to the 996 turbo in performance terms??

You could always sell 330/z4m and buy a new m5
0% and up to 15k off!)

[paulmc]

F10 would kill it easily. i remapped the 996 turbo that did make a big difference but the F10 was still a good bit quicker.

[gav2612]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I have an e90 330d as a daily driver, so am really looking for a coupe for some weekend fun. As good as im sure the M5 is, I would see that as more of an extremely quick all rounder than a fun second car. Another alternative may be the XKR ideally the 5.0. I drove a 57 plate earlier version and thought it was absolutely brilliant, but it felt soft and less focused in comparison to the Z4 or 996 platform, more GT cruiser. The v8 supercharged noise was epic at full throttle though!

[Top pup]

I test drove a 997 turbo to go in the garage with my Z4mc and whilst the turbo was a quicker better car in most ways it felt less sharp and really quite soft edged in comparison. Unless you really want the straight line speed I would think a GT3 would make a more exciting weekend car.

[Beedub]

do it.

end thread.

[JMBMWM5]

paulmc said:

Go drive the porsche. I sold my F10 M5 as i thought i wanted an older classic type car. IT IS RUBBISH. I hated it from the word go. Lasted about 3k miles and sold.

Hard
noisy
uncomfy
slow
old tech, not toys inside
gearbox is from the stoneage
steering is weird. does not inspire confidence
cramped
no room for any luggage.

The list goes on lol.

Agree 100%, and this one I had for just ONE WEEK, Carrera S, Noisey slow unless thrashed, gave us a headache.

Edited by JMBMWM5 on Friday 14th August 09:15

[gav2612]

I realise that posting on the M Power page I was going to get slightly biased opinions, but really surprised at how against the 911 most of these comments have been. I ran a 996 carrera 2 for a couple of years five or 6 years ago and loved driving it. The only thing that put me off it was the constant worry with the made of chocolate m96 engine that it was about to go bang. I drove a 997 carrera S a couple of times more recently and equally found it great to drive. Similar engine worries and it not really being that much quicker than the Z4m are all that puts me off buying one. I think Beedub has done a great job of summarising in very few words that I should just go ahead and supercharge the Z4. My questions now are whether to go Vt1 or Vt2?
Beedub, you will be the perfect person to enlighten me if you'd be kind enough- I have read a number of your posts on the kits and the heatsoak issues with the Vt1 kit. Has the Vt2 kit made that much of a difference on that front? Any less reliabilty on the more complicated and powerful vt2 kit? How much worse economy wise is the vt2 kit than the Vt1? I only do 4000 or so miles a year in the car, so can live with high teens to the gallon rather than the 23 or so that I average just now, but dont want to go as far as doubling my fuel costs!

Edited by gav2612 on Saturday 15th August 15:16

[benny 61]

JMBMWM5 said:

High mile porsches are a NO NO, lots of engine problems on the horizon IMO, steer clear unless rebuilt with bills.

The 996 turbo has one of the most reliable performance car engines ever. I would certainly back it to outlast a supercharged Z4m.

[gav2612]

I thought the same Benny. Race derived block in the turbo and GT3 are meant to be bulletproof unlike the NA mass produced standard carrera engines.Radiators and other items can fail and are expensive, but story's of 500hp tuned 996 turbos with over 150,000 miles and no rebuild. Appreciate they might be a little too accomplished and possibly a little dull for it though.
I love my z4 when I'm in the right mood, the pure joy of putting what is quite a hard car to drive quickly together is awesome. I would however say it is far harder riding and far more likely to give me a headache than any 911 I've driven.

[gav2612]

I thought the same Benny. Race derived block in the turbo and GT3 are meant to be bulletproof unlike the NA mass produced standard carrera engines.Radiators and other items can fail and are expensive, but story's of 500hp tuned 996 turbos with over 150,000 miles and no rebuild. Appreciate they might be a little too accomplished and possibly a little dull for it though.
I love my z4 when I'm in the right mood, the pure joy of putting what is quite a hard car to drive quickly together is awesome. I would however say it is far harder riding and far more likely to give me a headache than any 911 I've driven.

[e46m3c]

Charge it. 996 is too dated now

I have 550 bhp m3 and my time below was in the damp with 255 rears. In the dry with 275 r888 would know SOE good time off

This is comparing to Edinburgh race the runway 0-1350m

23.01 McLaren 650s
23.84 Lambo lp700 aventador
26.5 Merc AMG SLS black series
26.62 Ferrari 458 spider
26.94 Audi R8
27.45 BMW M5
27.53 M3 ESS VT 2 550
28.35 Merc C63 black series
29. 88 TVR Tuscan
29.92 BMW M3 e93
30.60 BMW M3 STK (remap, 100kg weight loss, r888)
31.27 BMW 135i

In the dry it pulls on f10 m5

[gav2612]

Thanks e46m3c pretty impressive times. I take it that was a v10 r8 just ahead?
Are you Edinburgh based? I'm in Dunfermline.
How long have you been running with 550bhp? Any other engine mods to support it or just standard ? Upgraded clutch and brakes? The z4m has the CSL brakes, but to be honest I don't find them any better than my old e46 m3 and am concerned they wouldn't pull up 450bhp(or 525!) efficiently

Thanks for all the comments. Leaning towards the VT2 kit now, figure in for a penny in for a pound and the lower intake temps with the VT2 would be a definite benefit

[StuH]

I'd go drive one and see what you think. Personally I did find the 996TT a little dated, and the interior in all 996's is a bit rubbish. However, that said, they are quick out of the box and have huge scope for tuning - speak to the guys at 9Excellence to get an idea.

If you like the intimate and pretty basic/mechanical feel of the Z4 then I think a 99x turbo is a good direction to go. GT3 is more raw still, but they have to be worked hard which is tiring for road use and were a little too uncomprising for me - I did that full-on track car thing in my Noble M12 days. As to M5/M6 - not a chance - I've owned several M5's, brilliant and quick all-rounders, but they'll feel like driving a barge after the Z4! I came a whisker away from getting the new M6 with performance pack but after trying the 997TT it was a no contest - I cant believe the comments on here that they're quicker than the Porsche, I can only assume it had a boost leak as a well sorted 996TT is a good couple of seconds quicker to 100mph.