How to motivate an unmotivateable (sp) person?
Discussion
I work for a small company running the workshop and site work and have 4 guys working under me. 2 are great and just get on with what they're asked in the correct amount of time. The other 2, one is 18 and getting anything done in a hurry is ridiculous. No matter how much he gets told how long he has and how to do it. He is just painful to watch.
The other is 36/7 with a one year old to his 18 year old gf with all sorts of aspergers and adhd and social problems and they all live with his dad.
If me and the boss are out nothing gets done, if his job entails anything thats not a square box he spends most of his time having a melt down about even though he has more experience than me. If he gets told off he speeds up for a day and if he gets praise he goes slower.
due to the nature of our work find good staff that dont expect £100ph is very hard in our province, so the boss cant really afford to get rid of them.
As an insentive my boss even paid for the older ones driving license ( half a dozen lessons and tests) and that didnt do much.
So, what as there are so many powerfully built directors here what would you suggest?
M open for all ideas, stupid or helpful
The other is 36/7 with a one year old to his 18 year old gf with all sorts of aspergers and adhd and social problems and they all live with his dad.
If me and the boss are out nothing gets done, if his job entails anything thats not a square box he spends most of his time having a melt down about even though he has more experience than me. If he gets told off he speeds up for a day and if he gets praise he goes slower.
due to the nature of our work find good staff that dont expect £100ph is very hard in our province, so the boss cant really afford to get rid of them.
As an insentive my boss even paid for the older ones driving license ( half a dozen lessons and tests) and that didnt do much.
So, what as there are so many powerfully built directors here what would you suggest?
M open for all ideas, stupid or helpful
IME, once a person is in a rut its almost impossible to change them.
We have tried all sorts over the years for people like this, more pay, attendance bonus, better conditions, more responsibility, duvet days etc etc.
In the end, they end up back where they started and you wanted a load of money and time trying to bring them round.
Just bite the bullet and get rid is my advice.
You may think they are hard to replace, but just do it. If you are that worried line up a replacement before hand.
Staff very rarely give you any thanks for the extras you might provide either. We work seasonal hours so in the winter the working day drops to 7 hours yet they still get paid for 8. Never once has a member of staff said thanks and if you ask someone to stay 10 minutes late (i.e still under 8 hours) in the winter they throw a strop. Gets right on my nerves.
We have tried all sorts over the years for people like this, more pay, attendance bonus, better conditions, more responsibility, duvet days etc etc.
In the end, they end up back where they started and you wanted a load of money and time trying to bring them round.
Just bite the bullet and get rid is my advice.
You may think they are hard to replace, but just do it. If you are that worried line up a replacement before hand.
Staff very rarely give you any thanks for the extras you might provide either. We work seasonal hours so in the winter the working day drops to 7 hours yet they still get paid for 8. Never once has a member of staff said thanks and if you ask someone to stay 10 minutes late (i.e still under 8 hours) in the winter they throw a strop. Gets right on my nerves.
proper performance management so as not to fall foul of employment law etc...
weekly 1:1s, supervisor notes (keep written records and share them so the employee knows and agrees to what needs to improve) and after 6 weeks, if it hasn't improved, official verbal warning (s), then written then dismiss.
follow the procedure as in the majority of cases of trying to "get rid" of poor performers the fact that you didn't follow the procedure or process loses your case.
alternatively, offer them a months salary in liue of notice tax free and ask them not to come back on monday.
threaten them with a poor reference too for future employment if they don't play ball....
weekly 1:1s, supervisor notes (keep written records and share them so the employee knows and agrees to what needs to improve) and after 6 weeks, if it hasn't improved, official verbal warning (s), then written then dismiss.
follow the procedure as in the majority of cases of trying to "get rid" of poor performers the fact that you didn't follow the procedure or process loses your case.
alternatively, offer them a months salary in liue of notice tax free and ask them not to come back on monday.
threaten them with a poor reference too for future employment if they don't play ball....
Good idea Nom
Some jobs he can knock out in an except able time.
Then I just have to deal with the constant questions about the same thing he does every day.
MajorProblem said:
Get rid of the worst one and see if it focuses the mind of the the other one, if not then bin him too.
Oh and what is it that you can employ these idiots for on £100 / hr? Can I apply for their positions?
just Joinery work, making Engineered Stone and Corian Benchtops. Troule is the older one can do fantastic work aslong as its staight forward. Something a bit designery and different and I will seem him at some points with his head in his hands.Oh and what is it that you can employ these idiots for on £100 / hr? Can I apply for their positions?
Some jobs he can knock out in an except able time.
Then I just have to deal with the constant questions about the same thing he does every day.
Some people do need more management than others. If the older one does good work but isn't able to do anything non standard without more investment from you and the boss that sounds like he needs some training and looking after, that's investment in staff. Put the younger one on disciplinary and follow it through all legally and correctly.
I'm assuming the younger and older one aren't on the same pay. If its 3 of you relatively experienced and one inexperienced consider raising the salary for a new worker. As people have said if he's not working he's already costing you money so why not pay a bit more for someone who actually does something?
I'm assuming the younger and older one aren't on the same pay. If its 3 of you relatively experienced and one inexperienced consider raising the salary for a new worker. As people have said if he's not working he's already costing you money so why not pay a bit more for someone who actually does something?
Free advice at ACAS:
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4668
Make sure you apply the process to everyone.
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4668
Make sure you apply the process to everyone.
Tony Starks said:
I work for a small company running the workshop and site work and have 4 guys working under me. 2 are great and just get on with what they're asked in the correct amount of time. The other 2, one is 18 and getting anything done in a hurry is ridiculous. No matter how much he gets told how long he has and how to do it. He is just painful to watch.
The other is 36/7 with a one year old to his 18 year old gf with all sorts of aspergers and adhd and social problems and they all live with his dad.
If me and the boss are out nothing gets done, if his job entails anything thats not a square box he spends most of his time having a melt down about even though he has more experience than me. If he gets told off he speeds up for a day and if he gets praise he goes slower.
due to the nature of our work find good staff that dont expect £100ph is very hard in our province, so the boss cant really afford to get rid of them.
As an insentive my boss even paid for the older ones driving license ( half a dozen lessons and tests) and that didnt do much.
So, what as there are so many powerfully built directors here what would you suggest?
M open for all ideas, stupid or helpful
How much are they really paid per hour?The other is 36/7 with a one year old to his 18 year old gf with all sorts of aspergers and adhd and social problems and they all live with his dad.
If me and the boss are out nothing gets done, if his job entails anything thats not a square box he spends most of his time having a melt down about even though he has more experience than me. If he gets told off he speeds up for a day and if he gets praise he goes slower.
due to the nature of our work find good staff that dont expect £100ph is very hard in our province, so the boss cant really afford to get rid of them.
As an insentive my boss even paid for the older ones driving license ( half a dozen lessons and tests) and that didnt do much.
So, what as there are so many powerfully built directors here what would you suggest?
M open for all ideas, stupid or helpful
Don't say £100, because that would not be true would it?
Ive been in this situation,
Put up with it for two years,
there are dozens of examples that she would over quote on difficult jobs, so as not to get them
she would always ring me on holiday, several times a day, on my payg phone so it cost me,
If jobs came into the group email she would leave them, if quotes came in later than five she wouldn't do them.
Scruffy unkempt, lazy, but convinced herself she was doing well.
she was hopeless, if i was going on holiday the week before, she would make my life a misery, almost in tears if it was busy.
i ended up on a driver awareness course because she would ring me about stupid pointless easy to solve queries, and foolishly i answered
Coat was on dead on half past five, wouldn't log in from home wouldn't stay late, wouldnt answer another phone on the pod.
she was very clever the way she manipulated me, and she was an utter pig, played on it and abuses the good nature of other staff.
relied on lifts from her parents even though she was thirty, and had her own house
on several occasions she would wait till 6-20om for her dad to come and get her, and take her home rather than walk the ten minutes home,
she would sit ten feet from the multimillionaire directors, and do as little as possible, moaning about the company that paid her bills, then straight on facebook and slagging them off.
the only compliment i could give her was that her work was neat and meticulous.
in the end, we got wind of her having an interview, she got it, but wasnt to leave for a few months so we got a replacement lined up and he started a day after she left.
she got her new job and has since been sacked,
i know i carried her for two years,and was worried what i would do if she left.
The replacement is on less money works five times harder and the team is a lot happier
in short, at home my father was dying, and in work, it was a living hell
if my mobile rang she would panic about me having to nip out.
i was desperately unhappy.
so i look back on it now, and i kick myself for putting up with her pathetic attitude.
she left six months on and revenue has more than doubled.
at the time we didnt see a way out or any light in the tunnel, it would take months to train someone else, and we put up with her for fear of the unknown.
Now i look back and im extremely annoyed at myself for putting up with her in the first place,
so i would say that her attitude pretty much ruined the job ive done for 28 years
now shes gone i enjoy it, im getting home earlier and happier
you cant just get shot of them for no reason, i know that but without them and the negativity they bring, your workplace will be transformed
Put up with it for two years,
there are dozens of examples that she would over quote on difficult jobs, so as not to get them
she would always ring me on holiday, several times a day, on my payg phone so it cost me,
If jobs came into the group email she would leave them, if quotes came in later than five she wouldn't do them.
Scruffy unkempt, lazy, but convinced herself she was doing well.
she was hopeless, if i was going on holiday the week before, she would make my life a misery, almost in tears if it was busy.
i ended up on a driver awareness course because she would ring me about stupid pointless easy to solve queries, and foolishly i answered
Coat was on dead on half past five, wouldn't log in from home wouldn't stay late, wouldnt answer another phone on the pod.
she was very clever the way she manipulated me, and she was an utter pig, played on it and abuses the good nature of other staff.
relied on lifts from her parents even though she was thirty, and had her own house
on several occasions she would wait till 6-20om for her dad to come and get her, and take her home rather than walk the ten minutes home,
she would sit ten feet from the multimillionaire directors, and do as little as possible, moaning about the company that paid her bills, then straight on facebook and slagging them off.
the only compliment i could give her was that her work was neat and meticulous.
in the end, we got wind of her having an interview, she got it, but wasnt to leave for a few months so we got a replacement lined up and he started a day after she left.
she got her new job and has since been sacked,
i know i carried her for two years,and was worried what i would do if she left.
The replacement is on less money works five times harder and the team is a lot happier
in short, at home my father was dying, and in work, it was a living hell
if my mobile rang she would panic about me having to nip out.
i was desperately unhappy.
so i look back on it now, and i kick myself for putting up with her pathetic attitude.
she left six months on and revenue has more than doubled.
at the time we didnt see a way out or any light in the tunnel, it would take months to train someone else, and we put up with her for fear of the unknown.
Now i look back and im extremely annoyed at myself for putting up with her in the first place,
so i would say that her attitude pretty much ruined the job ive done for 28 years
now shes gone i enjoy it, im getting home earlier and happier
you cant just get shot of them for no reason, i know that but without them and the negativity they bring, your workplace will be transformed
A view from the shop floor (hypothetically)
If you seemingly do not address poor performance from slackers your 'good' employees may well think "why am I bothering going the extra mile when I can just sit and stare at the sky all day and still get paid"
Then you are in far more trouble.
You aren't Sainsburys - you cannot afford to 'carry' workers and you can be certain the ones that are skilled will soon question the value they are percieved to have when compared to such a peer. Best case is they take thier foot of the gas. Worst case is they leave.
It will be hard to implement an 'up your game or get out' attitude ESPECIALLY in a small business - but for the sake of your livelihood you must.
If you seemingly do not address poor performance from slackers your 'good' employees may well think "why am I bothering going the extra mile when I can just sit and stare at the sky all day and still get paid"
Then you are in far more trouble.
You aren't Sainsburys - you cannot afford to 'carry' workers and you can be certain the ones that are skilled will soon question the value they are percieved to have when compared to such a peer. Best case is they take thier foot of the gas. Worst case is they leave.
It will be hard to implement an 'up your game or get out' attitude ESPECIALLY in a small business - but for the sake of your livelihood you must.
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