Daddy, whats a car enthusiast ?
Discussion
Once upon a time (10 years ago) people bought GT3 and GT3 RS's new to use on track and large gaggles of them could be seen marauding over European and UK racing circuits as their drivers pitched themselves each other to hone their wheel skills. Then as the cars became a little older (and their first owners traded them in for 997 GT3 derivatives) they depreciated and passed into the hands of a new set of enthusiast who were prepared to modify said cars via the likes of Manthey, and Cargraphic, upgrading suspension and brakes to further improve the cars which were already strong and unstressed for circuit use. Those who had a little less to spend would go a bit older and purchase a 964 RS which also were widely seen in paddocks across the land and at the N'schiefe.
People posted on PH: details of trips they had taken in these cars, they discussed upgrades, advice to solve the odd fault that had developed, they warned of cars that had come a cropper on the track (and there were many), and generally discussed the joy of ownership that these cars provide in such depth.
sadly those days appear to have now passed, we have progressed...
now people post about: how many GT3's are on the market for sale / what colour to order for resale purposes / what specification to order, comfort seats, deviated stitching, leather dash, nav / what place you are in the queue at the OPC to get the latest GT car from Porsche / what the future values will be, which is the best 'investment' / should i flip my Cayman GT4 for £25k, because the gearing is a bit long, not because of the money obviously / factory delays for lightweight buckets / is sixty thousand pounds is realistic price for a 993 Carrera ?
i could go on. nothing to be done about it, times change, just a bit sad and I miss how things were, that's all.
People posted on PH: details of trips they had taken in these cars, they discussed upgrades, advice to solve the odd fault that had developed, they warned of cars that had come a cropper on the track (and there were many), and generally discussed the joy of ownership that these cars provide in such depth.
sadly those days appear to have now passed, we have progressed...
now people post about: how many GT3's are on the market for sale / what colour to order for resale purposes / what specification to order, comfort seats, deviated stitching, leather dash, nav / what place you are in the queue at the OPC to get the latest GT car from Porsche / what the future values will be, which is the best 'investment' / should i flip my Cayman GT4 for £25k, because the gearing is a bit long, not because of the money obviously / factory delays for lightweight buckets / is sixty thousand pounds is realistic price for a 993 Carrera ?
i could go on. nothing to be done about it, times change, just a bit sad and I miss how things were, that's all.
If it's any consolation, me and a few friends are off to Germany at the end of the week to drive our cars. No GT3's involved but there will be: 2 x 993, 1 x 996turbo, 1 x 997 Carrera S, 1 x 991 Carrera S, 1 x 3.2 targa, 1 x 944 and an MX5.
I doubt very much that there'll be time to discuss depreciation, re-sale values and whether or not the aftermarket stickers on my car unduly affect it's deminishing desirability. Do we care? Nope!
ETA we're all quite enthusiastic.
I doubt very much that there'll be time to discuss depreciation, re-sale values and whether or not the aftermarket stickers on my car unduly affect it's deminishing desirability. Do we care? Nope!
ETA we're all quite enthusiastic.
What are you doing about it or do you just want to have a moan?
Seems to me that people ARE still talking today about all the things you mention as being topics in the old days AS WELL AS the things you mention in the new days.
So a wider range of people on the site talking about a wider range of subjects surely is a good thing? Be a bit more inclusive and lighten up?
Seems to me that people ARE still talking today about all the things you mention as being topics in the old days AS WELL AS the things you mention in the new days.
So a wider range of people on the site talking about a wider range of subjects surely is a good thing? Be a bit more inclusive and lighten up?
yep, agree we need to use the cars as much as possible before increasingly intrusive legislation makes it harder - indeed I am using my 993 everyday over the summer as the daily driver, and I dragged my GT3 RS out for a blast at the weekend (first proper blat since returning from a Spa/'ring trip in May).
I was making an observation more than anything that certain topics of discussion on PH appear in my opinion to be drowning out the more traditional car enthusiast chat.
I was making an observation more than anything that certain topics of discussion on PH appear in my opinion to be drowning out the more traditional car enthusiast chat.
I have to agree that it was a special time to be GT3/RS owner in the UK 10-15 years ago. It was not uncommon to rock up with 10-20 mates all with RS's and chase each other round for a few days at a UK or European track day... Times have changed, but that doesn't mean all the fun has to stop.
I too miss those days, but still have a lot of the friends made back then and we can still make arrangements to get out on track. Down with apathy, lets book some track days
I too miss those days, but still have a lot of the friends made back then and we can still make arrangements to get out on track. Down with apathy, lets book some track days
It's easy to let our memories of the past or our worries about the future stop us enjoying the present.
One of the things I love about driving is it's one of the few things that keeps me completely in the moment, whether that's a track day or a good B-road blast it gets my mind in the present where it belongs.
I am off for a drive
PS That's a lovely garage you have there, seawise
One of the things I love about driving is it's one of the few things that keeps me completely in the moment, whether that's a track day or a good B-road blast it gets my mind in the present where it belongs.
I am off for a drive
PS That's a lovely garage you have there, seawise
seawise said:
yep, agree we need to use the cars as much as possible before increasingly intrusive legislation makes it harder - indeed I am using my 993 everyday over the summer as the daily driver, and I dragged my GT3 RS out for a blast at the weekend (first proper blat since returning from a Spa/'ring trip in May).
I was making an observation more than anything that certain topics of discussion on PH appear in my opinion to be drowning out the more traditional car enthusiast chat.
Im a little confused as to what legislation concerns a 996 rs more than a standard 993 tbh?I was making an observation more than anything that certain topics of discussion on PH appear in my opinion to be drowning out the more traditional car enthusiast chat.
Oso said:
It's easy to let our memories of the past or our worries about the future stop us enjoying the present.
One of the things I love about driving is it's one of the few things that keeps me completely in the moment, whether that's a track day or a good B-road blast it gets my mind in the present where it belongs.
I am off for a drive
PS That's a lovely garage you have there, seawise
that's true - I don't need much excuse for a drive if time permits, should us the GT3 a bit more thoughOne of the things I love about driving is it's one of the few things that keeps me completely in the moment, whether that's a track day or a good B-road blast it gets my mind in the present where it belongs.
I am off for a drive
PS That's a lovely garage you have there, seawise
seawise said:
none, but I can't get the 996 RS over the speed hump into the station car park...
Haha true..and I know what you are saying previously, but these cars have become very valuable over the last few years relative to earnings so people have got stuck in the drive it or make money situation..seawise said:
Once upon a time (10 years ago) people bought GT3 and GT3 RS's new to use on track and large gaggles of them could be seen marauding over European and UK racing circuits as their drivers pitched themselves each other to hone their wheel skills. Then as the cars became a little older (and their first owners traded them in for 997 GT3 derivatives) they depreciated and passed into the hands of a new set of enthusiast who were prepared to modify said cars via the likes of Manthey, and Cargraphic, upgrading suspension and brakes to further improve the cars which were already strong and unstressed for circuit use. Those who had a little less to spend would go a bit older and purchase a 964 RS which also were widely seen in paddocks across the land and at the N'schiefe.
People posted on PH: details of trips they had taken in these cars, they discussed upgrades, advice to solve the odd fault that had developed, they warned of cars that had come a cropper on the track (and there were many), and generally discussed the joy of ownership that these cars provide in such depth.
sadly those days appear to have now passed, we have progressed...
now people post about: how many GT3's are on the market for sale / what colour to order for resale purposes / what specification to order, comfort seats, deviated stitching, leather dash, nav / what place you are in the queue at the OPC to get the latest GT car from Porsche / what the future values will be, which is the best 'investment' / should i flip my Cayman GT4 for £25k, because the gearing is a bit long, not because of the money obviously / factory delays for lightweight buckets / is sixty thousand pounds is realistic price for a 993 Carrera ?
i could go on. nothing to be done about it, times change, just a bit sad and I miss how things were, that's all.
Hmm, my very heavily modified 996.1 CS K400 is going back for a service and after-service road test - cough! ahem! cough! to Meuspath this weekend. Wonder if Olaf would appreciate seeing his old worthless steer up on the ramps? Then I can get back to discussing it's sPeople posted on PH: details of trips they had taken in these cars, they discussed upgrades, advice to solve the odd fault that had developed, they warned of cars that had come a cropper on the track (and there were many), and generally discussed the joy of ownership that these cars provide in such depth.
sadly those days appear to have now passed, we have progressed...
now people post about: how many GT3's are on the market for sale / what colour to order for resale purposes / what specification to order, comfort seats, deviated stitching, leather dash, nav / what place you are in the queue at the OPC to get the latest GT car from Porsche / what the future values will be, which is the best 'investment' / should i flip my Cayman GT4 for £25k, because the gearing is a bit long, not because of the money obviously / factory delays for lightweight buckets / is sixty thousand pounds is realistic price for a 993 Carrera ?
i could go on. nothing to be done about it, times change, just a bit sad and I miss how things were, that's all.
t gearing, crap plastic interior and the fact it is worth sfa because it has been played with by a guy with a beard in Germany...You are forgetting the, "Who has put down a deposit on the 998 GT3 RS 2.0.1.4.5.6 and what will it be worth if I actually drive it" type threads, typically followed 15 years later by the "I didn't get a 998 GT3 RS 2.0.1.4.5.6 so Porsche are slags!" type threads 
Sadly no euro road trip for us this year, but putting together next years at the moment
Sadly no euro road trip for us this year, but putting together next years at the moment
I owned Porsches pre kids and have recently got into porsche again, yes okay generally people are more materialistic these days that's news to no one but I have found this forum pretty helpful on buying advice, I am personally not that interested in options and extras, but am very interested in engines and technical issues etc etc and I have found this forum to be pretty dam well informed.
And as for discussions on values etc, why not a bit of chit chat on values, I think its a bit st that values have gone up so much that air cooled porsches are not really considered everyday usable cars but thats life and not this forums fault.
Current Porsche chit chat should include the recent price increases as they are a bit silly and news...
It's all about balance, the world is a richer place now, better and worse, as my kids say stop sounding so bloody old you're not dead yet!!!!
And as for discussions on values etc, why not a bit of chit chat on values, I think its a bit s
t that values have gone up so much that air cooled porsches are not really considered everyday usable cars but thats life and not this forums fault.Current Porsche chit chat should include the recent price increases as they are a bit silly and news...
It's all about balance, the world is a richer place now, better and worse, as my kids say stop sounding so bloody old you're not dead yet!!!!
Slippydiff said:
Up until 4-5 years ago there were plenty like us on here, but the numbers have dwindled to be replaced with (and there's no polite way to put this) badge jockeys
It's a sign of the times, and whilst there were some options available for a 993/964/996 GT3 RS, the cars weren't bought for their kerb appeal, they were bought by drivers who drove them as their makers intended.
it seems Porsche are now pandering to a new breed of GT Porsche owner, and making damn sure they milk them for every penny in the process......
I totally get the nostalgia for better days and I understand that if you guys feel something has been lost then that must be a cause for remorse - I can't really comment on what it was like on here before as I am relatively new. But I'd like to think some new folks on here (myself included) can pedal a bit, know our cars and use them as intended.It's a sign of the times, and whilst there were some options available for a 993/964/996 GT3 RS, the cars weren't bought for their kerb appeal, they were bought by drivers who drove them as their makers intended.
it seems Porsche are now pandering to a new breed of GT Porsche owner, and making damn sure they milk them for every penny in the process......
I think you're wrong on the points above. There have been both comfort and track versions of Porsche's limited edition cars for decades. They're clearly not trying to milk people - if they were the retail price would be way closer to the price these cars trade at in the secondary market. And I know for sure that - in the case of my OPC at least - they have worked hard to get the GT cars into the hands of folks who appreciate them and will use them properly. Of course some of those might be of a new generation but in fairness to Porsche they need to have an eye on the future, too.
Like any club, the established members need to find a way of welcoming newcomers into the fold. I'm not sure how complaining about how it's not like the old days is going to attract/ retain the sort of people to the site that you say are missing.
Oso said:
I totally get the nostalgia for better days and I understand that if you guys feel something has been lost then that must be a cause for remorse - I can't really comment on what it was like on here before as I am relatively new. But I'd like to think some new folks on here (myself included) can pedal a bit, know our cars and use them as intended.
I think you're wrong on the points above. There have been both comfort and track versions of Porsche's limited edition cars for decades. They're clearly not trying to milk people - if they were the retail price would be way closer to the price these cars trade at in the secondary market. And I know for sure that - in the case of my OPC at least - they have worked hard to get the GT cars into the hands of folks who appreciate them and will use them properly. Of course some of those might be of a new generation but in fairness to Porsche they need to have an eye on the future, too.
Like any club, the established members need to find a way of welcoming newcomers into the fold. I'm not sure how complaining about how it's not like the old days is going to attract/ retain the sort of people to the site that you say are missing.
Agreed - some people just like to believe that they're somehow superior and more of an enthusiast than others, conveniently writing the 'rule' to suit!I think you're wrong on the points above. There have been both comfort and track versions of Porsche's limited edition cars for decades. They're clearly not trying to milk people - if they were the retail price would be way closer to the price these cars trade at in the secondary market. And I know for sure that - in the case of my OPC at least - they have worked hard to get the GT cars into the hands of folks who appreciate them and will use them properly. Of course some of those might be of a new generation but in fairness to Porsche they need to have an eye on the future, too.
Like any club, the established members need to find a way of welcoming newcomers into the fold. I'm not sure how complaining about how it's not like the old days is going to attract/ retain the sort of people to the site that you say are missing.
I don't really get the investment/value thing, and don't spend too much time on deviated stitching and the like. However, if that's what excites you, why not?.
I like to drive an RS any time I can, and track them periodically. My next RS will be in my hands in Zuffenhausen on September 2 and will be tracked on three tracks, do a rally, be Vmaxed and generally thrashed in its first month, However,this is not to everybody's taste, and we are all different.
I like to drive an RS any time I can, and track them periodically. My next RS will be in my hands in Zuffenhausen on September 2 and will be tracked on three tracks, do a rally, be Vmaxed and generally thrashed in its first month, However,this is not to everybody's taste, and we are all different.
Agree with Seawise and sadly old enough to be from the days when NO ONe wanted a 64 RS you could not give them away...... so we had fun shagged them .........Ring /Spa on slicks occasional off into the barrier .....
But happy they now have a sedate retirement in their humidity controlled cacoons as I know how hard they had to work !
But happy they now have a sedate retirement in their humidity controlled cacoons as I know how hard they had to work !
RDMcG said:
I don't really get the investment/value thing, and don't spend too much time on deviated stitching and the like. However, if that's what excites you, why not?.
I like to drive an RS any time I can, and track them periodically. My next RS will be in my hands in Zuffenhausen on September 2 and will be tracked on three tracks, do a rally, be Vmaxed and generally thrashed in its first month, However,this is not to everybody's taste, and we are all different.
Awesome that's the proper way to run in a car and gives you the chance really to get to know it too. Your profile says you are in Toronto? So you will keep the car over in Europe or do they ship it for you when you're finished your road trip?I like to drive an RS any time I can, and track them periodically. My next RS will be in my hands in Zuffenhausen on September 2 and will be tracked on three tracks, do a rally, be Vmaxed and generally thrashed in its first month, However,this is not to everybody's taste, and we are all different.
Oso said:
Awesome that's the proper way to run in a car and gives you the chance really to get to know it too. Your profile says you are in Toronto? So you will keep the car over in Europe or do they ship it for you when you're finished your road trip?
They run a Euro delivery program, so you order the car in Canada to a Canada spec, pick it up at the factory on temporary German plates,drive it for a few weeks and bring it back to the factory for where it is shipped conventionally to the dealer, ( NA spec cars are identical mechanically, but we lose the roll cage and the plexiglass for whatever reason). I will do three weeks with this one. It will be my fourth time. It is a wonderful experience.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff