Discussion
Has anyone got Protech two way adjustable shocks on their Chimaera,,,,
I might be the first to try!
I've looked at the various options and I know in some quarters people don't rate Protech but I'm not into a race set up so I've been considering a softer spring and two way to control ride.
Thoughts please chaps.
I might be the first to try!
I've looked at the various options and I know in some quarters people don't rate Protech but I'm not into a race set up so I've been considering a softer spring and two way to control ride.
Thoughts please chaps.
If I was flushed,,,,, that's why for less then a grand your just touching the surface so why not give them ago, I like the dynamics of the two way, They must have a garrantee so if they don't work,,,,,,
I'd go for less aggressive spring and control with valves, better for my every day usage Alex.
I'll have the odd track day but I'm not setting the car up to be firm.
It seems like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other with all these shocks sometimes!
I'd go for less aggressive spring and control with valves, better for my every day usage Alex.
I'll have the odd track day but I'm not setting the car up to be firm.
It seems like 6 of one and half a dozen of the other with all these shocks sometimes!
Alexdaredevils said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Alexdaredevils said:
I personally believe you can't have a shock perfect for road and track, there is no half way point its either road OR track
Not unless you have fancy active controllers
I have a cunning plan, watch this space Not unless you have fancy active controllers
And you'd be right.
So with that in mind if I go with say 350/300 and double adjusts I might have a good road set up, I'm aware Alex, my speed on the road has always been well conformed, yeah right! ,
See where I'm going, my cars not a track car, I want the electrics to stop bouncing, I reckon even with soft springs by banging up the dampers on track the car would drive to its max Hp potential and give me the grip in and out, I'm not going to win straight line fights with many cars,,,, better brakes and mid corner grip go f
king flying in, haha, no only problem is I know they won't hack my aggressive turn in with to soft a spring but it's not important, ultimate pace, don't matter as long as I can have the odd day with the boys then settle back to compliance and control,
Single control damper as you know is limited especially with proper springs on. st if I wanted a track Chim you'd be pushing huge spring rates,,, well I would, hard as poss, cart, only compliance if undulation requires which it usually does.... Unfortunatly!
Anyway, road,,,,, two way/ softish spring
Question
Would such as soft spring be working the dampers to much, I'm going to be having it on fairly high clicks I reckon even on the road, especially country lanes ( bottoming) ???????
I'm happy to try different springs so if one isn't quite right I'll try again.
I'm feeling like having a go with them for the money it might be half right.
I don't expect an answer I just like typing by the look of all that old waffle
So with that in mind if I go with say 350/300 and double adjusts I might have a good road set up, I'm aware Alex, my speed on the road has always been well conformed, yeah right! ,
See where I'm going, my cars not a track car, I want the electrics to stop bouncing, I reckon even with soft springs by banging up the dampers on track the car would drive to its max Hp potential and give me the grip in and out, I'm not going to win straight line fights with many cars,,,, better brakes and mid corner grip
go fking flying in, haha, no only problem is I know they won't hack my aggressive turn in with to soft a spring but it's not important, ultimate pace, don't matter as long as I can have the odd day with the boys then settle back to compliance and control, Single control damper as you know is limited especially with proper springs on. s
t if I wanted a track Chim you'd be pushing huge spring rates,,, well I would, hard as poss, cart, only compliance if undulation requires which it usually does.... Unfortunatly! Anyway, road,,,,, two way/ softish spring
Question
Would such as soft spring be working the dampers to much, I'm going to be having it on fairly high clicks I reckon even on the road, especially country lanes ( bottoming) ???????
I'm happy to try different springs so if one isn't quite right I'll try again.
I'm feeling like having a go with them for the money it might be half right.
I don't expect an answer I just like typing by the look of all that old waffle
Standard is 275/325.
You need at least + 20% for fast road and those rates actually feel little different from standard.
I run 400/450 with Monos set at soft damping for road use and these feel very compliant.
When wound up firmer they are good on the track but at full chat on a fast circuit like Combe, actually feel too soft!
It has to be a compromise but get it right and you'll be happy most of the time, (I am as car is used plenty on the road).
You need at least + 20% for fast road and those rates actually feel little different from standard.
I run 400/450 with Monos set at soft damping for road use and these feel very compliant.
When wound up firmer they are good on the track but at full chat on a fast circuit like Combe, actually feel too soft!
It has to be a compromise but get it right and you'll be happy most of the time, (I am as car is used plenty on the road).
Probably.
Nitron give out 500/400 as standard now but that extra 50 lbs will be barely noticeable.
You really need to stiffen the setup a lot more to be very effective on the track but then you compromise the road feel.
I but yours felt floaty towards the end of the main straight at Combe, mine certainly did!
I don't get this at Snetterton or Bedford as these are pretty much flat tracks.
Nitron give out 500/400 as standard now but that extra 50 lbs will be barely noticeable.
You really need to stiffen the setup a lot more to be very effective on the track but then you compromise the road feel.
I but yours felt floaty towards the end of the main straight at Combe, mine certainly did!
I don't get this at Snetterton or Bedford as these are pretty much flat tracks.
Yes, braking in the middle of Avon Rise, about to turn into Quarry, was alarming at 125 mph on the bumps. Back end got a bit out of shape a few times, but I am not sure how I could make the car more stable.
Having said which, my Racing Red springs are softer than my GGP springs were. 425/400 IIRC. I could put 500s on the front for circuits like Combe, but what about the rear? I have always found a softer rear improves the handling - it gets very hoppy with harder springs on the rear.
What are your thoughts (sorry for the partial thread hijack, but all damper/spring info is useful info for a man about to open his wallet in that direction)?
Alun, go for Gaz Monos. Set soft they are really compliant on the road, stiffened up they are good on track. Mat Smith can do you a set for around the £1,000 mark. Peter uses them, Mat ses them himself. I woud be using them if I hadn't recently got my Racing Reds second hand.
Having said which, my Racing Red springs are softer than my GGP springs were. 425/400 IIRC. I could put 500s on the front for circuits like Combe, but what about the rear? I have always found a softer rear improves the handling - it gets very hoppy with harder springs on the rear.
What are your thoughts (sorry for the partial thread hijack, but all damper/spring info is useful info for a man about to open his wallet in that direction)?
Alun, go for Gaz Monos. Set soft they are really compliant on the road, stiffened up they are good on track. Mat Smith can do you a set for around the £1,000 mark. Peter uses them, Mat ses them himself. I woud be using them if I hadn't recently got my Racing Reds second hand.
Can someone tell me the spring rates Gaz give you as standard with a set of Gaz Gold Pros? That's what I have and I can't for the life of me remember what the spring rates were Derek at the Gaz factory gave me.
Suffice to say very very occasionally I do bottom out the rear end, I have raised the ride height and upped the damping rate by three clicks and also run more forgiving 55 profile rear tyres. It's all helped but that very occasional bottoming out moment still raises its ugly head from time to time.
All this shouldn't put people off from the Gaz Gold Pros which generally I've fount to have been an excellent product, the reason I'm bottoming out is I have two heavy steel LPG tanks in my boot with 14 gallons of LPG in them, plus 5 gallons of reserve petrol!
That all works out at around 30kg more weight in the boot if you compare a fully fueled standard Chimaera with my car fully double fueled and ready to cover the best part of 500 miles without stopping for fuel (standard car does about 315 tops in my experience).
Actually the extra 30kgs has a very positive effect on traction & handling, but I am now looking for a solution to that very occasional bottoming out.
I also have a little development project brewing in the background that takes a whole new and fresh look at the suspension on these cars which if successful could be the answer to the better compromise between handing and ride quality we're all looking for.
But for the time being I need to go up from my standard rear Gaz Gold Pro spring rates, does anyone know what these are and how to calculate the extra load rating I need on my new springs to get things just right with my additional 30KGs in the boot?
Cheers, Dave.
Suffice to say very very occasionally I do bottom out the rear end, I have raised the ride height and upped the damping rate by three clicks and also run more forgiving 55 profile rear tyres. It's all helped but that very occasional bottoming out moment still raises its ugly head from time to time.
All this shouldn't put people off from the Gaz Gold Pros which generally I've fount to have been an excellent product, the reason I'm bottoming out is I have two heavy steel LPG tanks in my boot with 14 gallons of LPG in them, plus 5 gallons of reserve petrol!
That all works out at around 30kg more weight in the boot if you compare a fully fueled standard Chimaera with my car fully double fueled and ready to cover the best part of 500 miles without stopping for fuel (standard car does about 315 tops in my experience).
Actually the extra 30kgs has a very positive effect on traction & handling, but I am now looking for a solution to that very occasional bottoming out.
I also have a little development project brewing in the background that takes a whole new and fresh look at the suspension on these cars which if successful could be the answer to the better compromise between handing and ride quality we're all looking for.
But for the time being I need to go up from my standard rear Gaz Gold Pro spring rates, does anyone know what these are and how to calculate the extra load rating I need on my new springs to get things just right with my additional 30KGs in the boot?
Cheers, Dave.
FWIW Dave, I noticed that my car rode about 1.5 inches lower at the rear upon adding a small petrol lawn mower to the boot (don't ask!). Can't have been more than 15-20kg.
I would guess it is just a matter of trial and error in the absence of any other info. At least your added weight is in front of the rear wheels, so its turning moment is less than a lawnmower behind the axle.
If you try stiffening up the rear dampers a bit more first you could at least see if that solved it without changing the springs. I found that GGPs have a rather small area in the clicks between quite soft and quite hard - 7 clicks up from soft was still soft, while 11 clicks was pretty hard. The critical point on mine it seemed to be at a round 9 clicks up from soft. What I am saying is that GGPs don't seem to increase evenly in stiffness. However, on a Snetterton track day I started with my rear dampers on 15 clicks, and had to back them right back down to 6 clicks to stop the car hopping on hairpin bands.
I have a feeling that the spring rates for standard road use are 325/275, though am not sure which is the front, as while I would have the stiffer at the front, I have read the converse on here. I do have a pair of 350 lb springs sitting on my man cave shelf if you would like to try them. It is easy enough to swap them over - am I correct in assuming you know how? I also have a pair of 500 lb springs if you want to try really stiff. Both sets are nearly new and clean. I used to run my car on 500 lb front and 400 lb rear springs on GGPs, but that was aimed at track use. However, the car didn't ground on the way to the track with a full load of tools, fluids, wheels and tyres in the boot - I must have had 50-60 kg of stuff in there.
The other thing you could do is to give Derek at Absolutely Shocking a call - he may well be able to advise you on spring rates, and he supplies springs at very reasonable prices. I think the last ones I bought were about £60 the pair delivered.
I would guess it is just a matter of trial and error in the absence of any other info. At least your added weight is in front of the rear wheels, so its turning moment is less than a lawnmower behind the axle.
If you try stiffening up the rear dampers a bit more first you could at least see if that solved it without changing the springs. I found that GGPs have a rather small area in the clicks between quite soft and quite hard - 7 clicks up from soft was still soft, while 11 clicks was pretty hard. The critical point on mine it seemed to be at a round 9 clicks up from soft. What I am saying is that GGPs don't seem to increase evenly in stiffness. However, on a Snetterton track day I started with my rear dampers on 15 clicks, and had to back them right back down to 6 clicks to stop the car hopping on hairpin bands.
I have a feeling that the spring rates for standard road use are 325/275, though am not sure which is the front, as while I would have the stiffer at the front, I have read the converse on here. I do have a pair of 350 lb springs sitting on my man cave shelf if you would like to try them. It is easy enough to swap them over - am I correct in assuming you know how? I also have a pair of 500 lb springs if you want to try really stiff. Both sets are nearly new and clean. I used to run my car on 500 lb front and 400 lb rear springs on GGPs, but that was aimed at track use. However, the car didn't ground on the way to the track with a full load of tools, fluids, wheels and tyres in the boot - I must have had 50-60 kg of stuff in there.
The other thing you could do is to give Derek at Absolutely Shocking a call - he may well be able to advise you on spring rates, and he supplies springs at very reasonable prices. I think the last ones I bought were about £60 the pair delivered.
QBee said:
The other thing you could do is to give Derek at Absolutely Shocking a call - he may well be able to advise you on spring rates, and he supplies springs at very reasonable prices. I think the last ones I bought were about £60 the pair delivered.
Cheers, FYI the additional 30kgs is neither forward or behind the wheels, it's right over the axle line.I designed it that way and it really does make the rear end more planted, from completely empty of both fuels to absolutely full of petrol & LPG I'm actually adding 50kgs over the axle line and I've never really noticed the car sink on its springs when fueling.
Previously I could get the rear end out very easily, with the extra mass over the axle line she'll still spin her wheels but now always tracks straight when doing so where before she'd wag her tail like a happy dog.
Planted is how I'd describe it, and since going gas it seems pretty clear to me the car has benefited from the conversion in ways I never expected, but she will bottom out every now and then so that needs sorting.
If springs are only £60 a pair I think I'll go for a set that are say 50lbs heavier and see how I get on, perhaps I'll get ya man in Downham Market to fit them as I hear he's very reasonable & knows his suspension setups.
But I first need to understand exactly what I have right now, I've been meaning to contact Derek with that very question for some time now but just thought I'd see if anyone on here had the answer first.
Then there's my other idea that's forming nicely, but that will take some time.
Pitch & yaw Anthony, pitch & yaw
ClassiChimi said:
Has anyone got Protech two way adjustable shocks on their Chimaera,,,,
I might be the first to try!
I've looked at the various options and I know in some quarters people don't rate Protech but I'm not into a race set up so I've been considering a softer spring and two way to control ride.
Thoughts please chaps.
I fitted Protech double adjustable during my suspension refurb over the winter. Give Kevin a ring at protech and have a chat to him, he's really helpful and makes them up to your exact specification as all sets are made to order.I might be the first to try!
I've looked at the various options and I know in some quarters people don't rate Protech but I'm not into a race set up so I've been considering a softer spring and two way to control ride.
Thoughts please chaps.
I don't do track days so had 400 springs front and 325 rear but he will fit anything you want.
They also carry a 3 year guarantee so peace of mind.
And there was I thinking that pitch and yawn was something to do with golf? 
or international football with England playing?
Mat Smith is good at suspension set up and can change the springs, check your GGPs and all the suspension joints, adjust the ride height if needed, and do you a four wheel alignment while you are there. And do it while you wait and let you watch, if you ask him. There is a rumour he enjoys a chat too, so you should be amongst friends there. I am quite sure he will be interested in your LPG set up, and he's not expensive either.
If you would like to try my 350 lb springs just say and I will drop them off at Mat's, as I need to see him before the end of the month.
or international football with England playing? Mat Smith is good at suspension set up and can change the springs, check your GGPs and all the suspension joints, adjust the ride height if needed, and do you a four wheel alignment while you are there. And do it while you wait and let you watch, if you ask him. There is a rumour he enjoys a chat too, so you should be amongst friends there. I am quite sure he will be interested in your LPG set up, and he's not expensive either.
If you would like to try my 350 lb springs just say and I will drop them off at Mat's, as I need to see him before the end of the month.
QBee said:
And there was I thinking that pitch and yawn was something to do with golf? or international football with England playing?
Mat Smith is good at suspension set up and can change the springs, check your GGPs and all the suspension joints, adjust the ride height if needed, and do you a four wheel alignment while you are there. And do it while you wait and let you watch, if you ask him. There is a rumour he enjoys a chat too, so you should be amongst friends there. I am quite sure he will be interested in your LPG set up, and he's not expensive either.
If you would like to try my 350 lb springs just say and I will drop them off at Mat's, as I need to see him before the end of the month.
Cheers mate your 350lb springs might be just the ticket, that's a very kind offer or international football with England playing? Mat Smith is good at suspension set up and can change the springs, check your GGPs and all the suspension joints, adjust the ride height if needed, and do you a four wheel alignment while you are there. And do it while you wait and let you watch, if you ask him. There is a rumour he enjoys a chat too, so you should be amongst friends there. I am quite sure he will be interested in your LPG set up, and he's not expensive either.
If you would like to try my 350 lb springs just say and I will drop them off at Mat's, as I need to see him before the end of the month.
However, I still need to understand exactly what I have now, I have a feeling the standard Chimaera Gaz Gold Pros like mine are supplied with 400lbs springs front and 325lbs rear, but at the end of the day I'm just guessing.
Anyway I've emailed Gaz and await their response on Chimaera spring rates, in the mean time does anyone know the true answer?
I've also just found a useful little spring rate calculator that with some corner weight figures should tell me what I need, I could even take the figures from another Chimaera and add my additional 30kg at the rear to give the approximate spring rate increase I'll need.
Not very scientific I know, but that's the theory
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