Doing a mag shoot - help!
Discussion
I have provisionally been offered some trial work for a magazine shooting at a track day (they were impressed by the contents of my website it would seem!).
Now apart from the usual kit/photography questions I was thinking more on a business sense, once I send the pictures to them I take it I cannot use them on my website?
Also do they prefer just the RAW/JPEGs or is it my job to enhance, crop and edit them up as well in the price of my days shooting?
Any other advice on this would be appreciated - i've never done anything like this before!
Now apart from the usual kit/photography questions I was thinking more on a business sense, once I send the pictures to them I take it I cannot use them on my website?
Also do they prefer just the RAW/JPEGs or is it my job to enhance, crop and edit them up as well in the price of my days shooting?
Any other advice on this would be appreciated - i've never done anything like this before!
1st question:
Are they paying you for this?
If they are...what is the structure:
Up front?
Fixed fee?
What the results are like?
This will dictate what you ownership you should exert over the images.
No pay, you keep the pictures, you put them on your site, anything they see must have a Phil S watermark pasted all over them.
For me, its gotten to the point where I feel my pictures (some of them) are good enough to be worth something to someone else, and so am reluctant to do things for nothing anymore, under the concept of "Its a learning experience".
Of course this doesn't always apply, but you should think long and hard before making a decision. Remember, you're the one in control, as they are your images to give away should you choose to.
LB
Are they paying you for this?
If they are...what is the structure:
Up front?
Fixed fee?
What the results are like?
This will dictate what you ownership you should exert over the images.
No pay, you keep the pictures, you put them on your site, anything they see must have a Phil S watermark pasted all over them.
For me, its gotten to the point where I feel my pictures (some of them) are good enough to be worth something to someone else, and so am reluctant to do things for nothing anymore, under the concept of "Its a learning experience".
Of course this doesn't always apply, but you should think long and hard before making a decision. Remember, you're the one in control, as they are your images to give away should you choose to.
LB
Well that's encouraging.
Have you got a detailed brief of what they are looking for, and where/how they might like to use the images.
Have they asked you to assign copyright over to them.
Have they said you can't use them on your website?
Have you told them you will use them on your site?
If they are printed, do you get royalties, or does the fixed fee mean there will be no more payments?
Try to go fixed up front fee, to cover expenses and time. This shouldn't include any post processing (as you will naturally want to edit the pics and make sure they are at their best for when they see them). Unlikely you'll charge for this, as its the first time. However, if there is a chance of repeat business, you want to get the fees right, as they'll try to get you for the same rate each time, and you'll find it difficult to justify more dosh for subsequent shoots.
Perhaps say something like I'll do the post processing for free this time, up to a maximum of x hours, and for which I'll be charging £y per hour for any subsequent shoots, which of course is negotiable.
You should be entitled to Royalties depending on how your shots are published/used, along with your details alongside the images.
All this is preferable, but perhaps not all are likely to be achieved.
Key is to be firm about what you want out of it, don't sell yourself short, and remember to set yourself up for repeat business, in terms of what you give to them, and getting the right pricing model, that is mutually agreeable.
Plus there's my 10% fee
LB
Have you got a detailed brief of what they are looking for, and where/how they might like to use the images.
Have they asked you to assign copyright over to them.
Have they said you can't use them on your website?
Have you told them you will use them on your site?
If they are printed, do you get royalties, or does the fixed fee mean there will be no more payments?
Try to go fixed up front fee, to cover expenses and time. This shouldn't include any post processing (as you will naturally want to edit the pics and make sure they are at their best for when they see them). Unlikely you'll charge for this, as its the first time. However, if there is a chance of repeat business, you want to get the fees right, as they'll try to get you for the same rate each time, and you'll find it difficult to justify more dosh for subsequent shoots.
Perhaps say something like I'll do the post processing for free this time, up to a maximum of x hours, and for which I'll be charging £y per hour for any subsequent shoots, which of course is negotiable.
You should be entitled to Royalties depending on how your shots are published/used, along with your details alongside the images.
All this is preferable, but perhaps not all are likely to be achieved.
Key is to be firm about what you want out of it, don't sell yourself short, and remember to set yourself up for repeat business, in terms of what you give to them, and getting the right pricing model, that is mutually agreeable.
Plus there's my 10% fee
LB
I joined the National Union of Journalists when I first set up PH as I thought it might prove useful. It didn't.
However, part of the welcome pack was a very interesting booklet all about copyright, and a guide to what to charge for photographs.
The rates are dependent on readership of the mag, the right to reproduce again, and the size of the print. Very useful stuff as a guide to determining what rate you should charge.
That said, as with everything in life things are only worth what people are prepared to pay for them. However, getting hold of a copy of something like that may stop someone taking advantage.
However, part of the welcome pack was a very interesting booklet all about copyright, and a guide to what to charge for photographs.
The rates are dependent on readership of the mag, the right to reproduce again, and the size of the print. Very useful stuff as a guide to determining what rate you should charge.
That said, as with everything in life things are only worth what people are prepared to pay for them. However, getting hold of a copy of something like that may stop someone taking advantage.
luca brazzi said:
For me, its gotten to the point where I feel my pictures (some of them) are good enough to be worth something to someone else, and so am reluctant to do things for nothing anymore, under the concept of "Its a learning experience".
I downloaded a couple of pics of me at the DOTY championship from your website and gave them to my mum. How much do I owe you
Some great advice there Luca thanks, i'll have to make a list of 'demands' for when we finalise it.
Fortunately from previous meetings with the magazine editor I know they pay around £250 a day to their normal photographers. This time round I agreed to a much lower rate than this but did mention this was because it is a trial basis. (Also they know I have not done anything like this before!)
At the end of the day the money is not a big issue for me this time round (as I was alread going to attend the show/track just to take some photos for myself) but I want to do things properly and makesure everything goes smoothly so they come back for more repeat business - freelance photography is something i'd like to try and get into full time eventually.
I am assuming I send them the photos and they do as they please from there onwards and I take my wage for the day and leave it at that.
Ted, I will have a search around for the information contained in that booklet as it does sound very useful indeed. Short of joining the Union of Journo's (sounds evpensive and irrelevant to a photographer) if you have any hints as to where the information could be found online
Thanks again PH
Fortunately from previous meetings with the magazine editor I know they pay around £250 a day to their normal photographers. This time round I agreed to a much lower rate than this but did mention this was because it is a trial basis. (Also they know I have not done anything like this before!)
At the end of the day the money is not a big issue for me this time round (as I was alread going to attend the show/track just to take some photos for myself) but I want to do things properly and makesure everything goes smoothly so they come back for more repeat business - freelance photography is something i'd like to try and get into full time eventually.
I am assuming I send them the photos and they do as they please from there onwards and I take my wage for the day and leave it at that.
Ted, I will have a search around for the information contained in that booklet as it does sound very useful indeed. Short of joining the Union of Journo's (sounds evpensive and irrelevant to a photographer) if you have any hints as to where the information could be found online
Thanks again PH
This site may be useful
http://media.gn.apc.org/feesguide/photo.html but because you say you have agreed a fixed fee maybe not. I would not just hand over my photos for them to do as they want unless they pay you a hell of a lot more than £250. You should retain copyright and licence them to use the photos. I would make sure this is sorted out before the event just so both sides know what will happen and get something signed.
Just some things to bear in mind
Cheers
Ian
Edited to fix link and after reading the first post again
>> Edited by Ian_H on Thursday 3rd February 16:55
http://media.gn.apc.org/feesguide/photo.html but because you say you have agreed a fixed fee maybe not. I would not just hand over my photos for them to do as they want unless they pay you a hell of a lot more than £250. You should retain copyright and licence them to use the photos. I would make sure this is sorted out before the event just so both sides know what will happen and get something signed.
Just some things to bear in mind
Cheers
Ian
Edited to fix link and after reading the first post again
>> Edited by Ian_H on Thursday 3rd February 16:55
Phil S said:
Now apart from the usual kit/photography questions I was thinking more on a business sense, once I send the pictures to them I take it I cannot use them on my website?
Unless they have made you sign away your copyright you can do with them a you please. Although, if you tried to sell the pics to other mag's, it might not do you any favours with them for the future.
Phil S said:
Also do they prefer just the RAW/JPEGs or is it my job to enhance, crop and edit them up as well in the price of my days shooting?
They wouldn't want RAW. A high quality publication would expect CMYK .TIF files supplied on disk. Reference contact sheets would also be useful to them. Depending how they work they may accept JPGs but I would ask them what they want. If they want CMYK you might want to ask them what profile/colour space they prefer.
I wouldn't crop them too tightly. Give the designer something to work with, they can always crop down later. You would be expected to supply files with correct colour/curves/sharpening and any digital dust spots removed (you do want them to ask you again don't you?). I wouldn't get too excited about making more money doing post processing, most magazines work on a fixed day rate. You will also only get paid on, or after, publication date. Again, talk to them, ask them questions and don't sign away your copyright. Good luck.
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