Ebay / Paypal minor ranty ranty
Discussion
I've been clearing out my old man's garage of rubbish over the last few weeks and months as he is considering downsizing. Hence, a lot of ebay activity. I've been slowly simmering about it for weeks but have now decided I would like to vent a little.
Final value fees on shipping. WTF? I understand that ebay provide a service and they can reasonably expect to get paid for providing a service, but charging me 10% on top of my shipping costs is extortion. What is the possible reason for this other than to rake in some extra cash? It's not much, but the items I'm selling at low value and after the paypal fee and final value fee, it's just another kick in the cock. I'f I sell an item for a tenner and the shipping costs £3 quid, I lose close to £3 in fees.
Final value fees in general. I have no issue paying for a service, which in this case is a trivial amount of web hosting space and a contribution towards manning a customer service presence; The problem comes with it being a fixed rate of 10%. Fine if I'm selling low value items for 10-20 quid but I had a set of wheels up for sale a while back. That would have been £30 for exactly the same level of service, had they sold on ebay.
Scrotes coming in with offers of bugger all, then getting the hump when they get turned down. You want a new one, go to the f
king shop.
Seller protection: Basically bugger all unless you accept paypal (and more fees!), use a tracked courier service, which increases your shipping costs and the FVFOS and even then you only qualify, there is still a case to open and await investigation of. Meanwhile buyers are sacrosanct and be as arsey and dodgy as they like.
What's set me off on this today? I've sold an item for a fair price, but now paypal are holding the payment. Apparently ebay have arbitrarily made me a 'casual seller', which does sound fair enough as its exactly what I am. However it means I have to send the item before I get the funds released, so another kick in the cock for the seller and makes it easier for the buyer to pull the rug out and get their money back later, at a guess.
I've not been scammed on ebay yet, it's the principle of the thing and the general hassle fcator that piss me off. If it wasn't the biggest place to advertise stuff I'd go elsewhere, but ads on scumtree etc get no traction whatsoever.
Oh and another thing, Ebay and Paypal customer service, very polite but absolutely useless, might as well stab yourself in the cock.
/rant
Final value fees on shipping. WTF? I understand that ebay provide a service and they can reasonably expect to get paid for providing a service, but charging me 10% on top of my shipping costs is extortion. What is the possible reason for this other than to rake in some extra cash? It's not much, but the items I'm selling at low value and after the paypal fee and final value fee, it's just another kick in the cock. I'f I sell an item for a tenner and the shipping costs £3 quid, I lose close to £3 in fees.
Final value fees in general. I have no issue paying for a service, which in this case is a trivial amount of web hosting space and a contribution towards manning a customer service presence; The problem comes with it being a fixed rate of 10%. Fine if I'm selling low value items for 10-20 quid but I had a set of wheels up for sale a while back. That would have been £30 for exactly the same level of service, had they sold on ebay.
Scrotes coming in with offers of bugger all, then getting the hump when they get turned down. You want a new one, go to the f
king shop.Seller protection: Basically bugger all unless you accept paypal (and more fees!), use a tracked courier service, which increases your shipping costs and the FVFOS and even then you only qualify, there is still a case to open and await investigation of. Meanwhile buyers are sacrosanct and be as arsey and dodgy as they like.
What's set me off on this today? I've sold an item for a fair price, but now paypal are holding the payment. Apparently ebay have arbitrarily made me a 'casual seller', which does sound fair enough as its exactly what I am. However it means I have to send the item before I get the funds released, so another kick in the cock for the seller and makes it easier for the buyer to pull the rug out and get their money back later, at a guess.
I've not been scammed on ebay yet, it's the principle of the thing and the general hassle fcator that piss me off. If it wasn't the biggest place to advertise stuff I'd go elsewhere, but ads on scumtree etc get no traction whatsoever.
Oh and another thing, Ebay and Paypal customer service, very polite but absolutely useless, might as well stab yourself in the cock.
/rant
Edited by goneape on Wednesday 9th September 17:49
These things changed because people abused the system.
People listed stuff as buy now £1 with £20 postage.
People took the sale proceeds out of paypal and then never sent the items.
st that affects decent people is generally caused by sts.
People listed stuff as buy now £1 with £20 postage.
People took the sale proceeds out of paypal and then never sent the items.
s
t that affects decent people is generally caused by sts.Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Wednesday 9th September 18:02
goneape said:
If it wasn't the biggest place to advertise stuff I'd go elsewhere
No-one's forcing you to use Ebay - if you don't like the opportunity to use a worldwide selling service, then don't....As for charging more for the same effective service, nothing new there - estate agents, anyone?
goneape said:
I have no issue paying for a service, which in this case is a trivial amount of web hosting space and a contribution towards manning a customer service presence; The problem comes with it being a fixed rate of 10%. Fine if I'm selling low value items for 10-20 quid but I had a set of wheels up for sale a while back. That would have been £30 for exactly the same level of service, had they sold on ebay.
You're not paying for a trivial amount of web hosting and potential use of customer service.You're paying for access to the biggest marketplace in the UK.
If you don't like it there are free alternatives. Local Facebook groups, Gumtree, etc.
Also just had a little clearout and took a different approach this time. Worked it out like this -
Minimum value I'd be happy with + cost of postage
Divided by 9, multiplied by 10 = starting price.
Then just put 'free postage'
That way it's a price you're happy with and the costs are covered. The free postage actually attracts a lot of interest I found, with more bids resulting in the final price being higher than similar auctions + postage costs. I think some people just struggle to do maths and there's a psychological thing that they're getting postage for 'free' - even though they're not.
The other problem I've encountered with eBay / Gumtree and similar is that a lot of sellers massively over estimate what their sh*t is worth (and I'm not accusing you of this btw, just going off on a tangent). It's second-hand, but people more often than not state what the item cost them and expect to make at least 75% return. That's not how this works! They're probably the same people who try to sell cars privately and base their price on similar vehicles from dealerships - then wonder why they can't sell it. /Rant.
Minimum value I'd be happy with + cost of postage
Divided by 9, multiplied by 10 = starting price.
Then just put 'free postage'
That way it's a price you're happy with and the costs are covered. The free postage actually attracts a lot of interest I found, with more bids resulting in the final price being higher than similar auctions + postage costs. I think some people just struggle to do maths and there's a psychological thing that they're getting postage for 'free' - even though they're not.
The other problem I've encountered with eBay / Gumtree and similar is that a lot of sellers massively over estimate what their sh*t is worth (and I'm not accusing you of this btw, just going off on a tangent). It's second-hand, but people more often than not state what the item cost them and expect to make at least 75% return. That's not how this works! They're probably the same people who try to sell cars privately and base their price on similar vehicles from dealerships - then wonder why they can't sell it. /Rant.
Recently I had a bit of a falling out with a buyer on eBay, there seems to be a growing trend for buyers to 'try it on' for a partial refund, "oh this has a terrible mark in it" followed by picture of a 1mm blemish "I could give you negative feedback, but I thought I'd give you the chance to remedy it first, say by refunding me the postage".
About 1 in 5 items this happens - we've got a little daughter who grows in and out of things at an alarming rate, so every other month my Wife informs me that Little Miss needs a whole new wardrobe, a high-chair, a car seat etc etc etc etc and I'm more than happy to buy them, but what to do with the old stuff?
The well worn stuff goes in the bin, the hardly worn stuff goes to charity and the either looks like new or never-worn stuff goes on eBay. When I started doing this I thought I was being a nice Guy, there's bound to be young families out there who are trying to raise babies who would love a half-price good-as-new chair, outfit, magic bottle making machine etc, it seemed so wasteful throwing perfectly good stuff away, the charities don't want anything with a plug on it and none or our friends are pregnant or want to be and hell, I've got a Mountain Bike addiction that needs feeding and Little Miss eats all by bike tokens.
But alas no, there are seemingly a huge amount of people on eBay buying and selling Baby stuff as traders and they're pretty ruthless.
So this Irish Lady bids on our 'ToddlePod' (if you're not familiar it's a cushion for babies that somehow costs £50) and wins it for £20 or something, I don't ship Internationally, don't want to get further in bed with eBay with their dubious sounding international shipping service so really she shouldn't had bid on it - but she uses some sort of service whereby I was given a PO box in Northern Ireland and it's shipped across the border on her behalf.
Sure enough moments after it lands I get the "this has a terrible mark.... partial refund" message - and photo of what I can only assume was the brushwork of a gnat because you can see the individual strands of the cover on the picture. I have only 1 response I use for this "sorry it wasn't what you expected, please start the appropriate eBay grievance procedure and return for a full refund". I have never, not once, had anything returned. What followed was a 5 day exchange of increasingly heated messages when I had to say "sorry, I'm not refunding the courier fees" (which surprisingly were more than the price she paid for it) "No I won't offer a partial refund" "No, I really won't" "No".
Sure enough the deadline to return it passes, Paypal release the Kings Ransom and I assume she used a damp cloth to remove the "terrible mark" before reselling it.
This brings me to the crux of my rant - when the transaction was finally over she was allowed to leave feedback - this is of course the whole trust structure of eBay - she wasn't allowed to leave negative feedback, because I sold it, she didn't like it, I offered to refund her, and although morals don't really come into it - she was trying to pull a fast one.
So she damned me with faint praise, gave a positive mark, but wrote what a terrible person I was, but more than that she used that star rating thing to give me no stars (or maybe 1 star) for everything.
So now PayPal 'helpfully' now hold all my sale proceeds for 21 days, until I can prove I dispatch my stuff on time.
Can I appeal it? No, Can I have the 'faint praise' feedback removed No.
As far as eBay are concerned all buyers must be happy all the time, it doesn't matter if they're unreasonable or they're low-level con artists, if they're not happy you're going to suffer.
About 1 in 5 items this happens - we've got a little daughter who grows in and out of things at an alarming rate, so every other month my Wife informs me that Little Miss needs a whole new wardrobe, a high-chair, a car seat etc etc etc etc and I'm more than happy to buy them, but what to do with the old stuff?
The well worn stuff goes in the bin, the hardly worn stuff goes to charity and the either looks like new or never-worn stuff goes on eBay. When I started doing this I thought I was being a nice Guy, there's bound to be young families out there who are trying to raise babies who would love a half-price good-as-new chair, outfit, magic bottle making machine etc, it seemed so wasteful throwing perfectly good stuff away, the charities don't want anything with a plug on it and none or our friends are pregnant or want to be and hell, I've got a Mountain Bike addiction that needs feeding and Little Miss eats all by bike tokens.
But alas no, there are seemingly a huge amount of people on eBay buying and selling Baby stuff as traders and they're pretty ruthless.
So this Irish Lady bids on our 'ToddlePod' (if you're not familiar it's a cushion for babies that somehow costs £50) and wins it for £20 or something, I don't ship Internationally, don't want to get further in bed with eBay with their dubious sounding international shipping service so really she shouldn't had bid on it - but she uses some sort of service whereby I was given a PO box in Northern Ireland and it's shipped across the border on her behalf.
Sure enough moments after it lands I get the "this has a terrible mark.... partial refund" message - and photo of what I can only assume was the brushwork of a gnat because you can see the individual strands of the cover on the picture. I have only 1 response I use for this "sorry it wasn't what you expected, please start the appropriate eBay grievance procedure and return for a full refund". I have never, not once, had anything returned. What followed was a 5 day exchange of increasingly heated messages when I had to say "sorry, I'm not refunding the courier fees" (which surprisingly were more than the price she paid for it) "No I won't offer a partial refund" "No, I really won't" "No".
Sure enough the deadline to return it passes, Paypal release the Kings Ransom and I assume she used a damp cloth to remove the "terrible mark" before reselling it.
This brings me to the crux of my rant - when the transaction was finally over she was allowed to leave feedback - this is of course the whole trust structure of eBay - she wasn't allowed to leave negative feedback, because I sold it, she didn't like it, I offered to refund her, and although morals don't really come into it - she was trying to pull a fast one.
So she damned me with faint praise, gave a positive mark, but wrote what a terrible person I was, but more than that she used that star rating thing to give me no stars (or maybe 1 star) for everything.
So now PayPal 'helpfully' now hold all my sale proceeds for 21 days, until I can prove I dispatch my stuff on time.
Can I appeal it? No, Can I have the 'faint praise' feedback removed No.
As far as eBay are concerned all buyers must be happy all the time, it doesn't matter if they're unreasonable or they're low-level con artists, if they're not happy you're going to suffer.
grumpy52 said:
My gripe with thiefbay ?
Returned fees , into my ebay account with no way of transferring them to my bank or paypal , so they get the use of MY money but I don't .
It is held towards any future fees .
You can get a refundReturned fees , into my ebay account with no way of transferring them to my bank or paypal , so they get the use of MY money but I don't .
It is held towards any future fees .
http://ocsnext.ebay.co.uk/ocs/cusr?query=892&d...
My wife sold an unwanted pair of real ladies Gucci sunglasses on the bay of E for about 25 quid. Packeged up and sent as she has done with over 300 items now with 100% feedback. Email back from buyer stating they are not what was advertised,(damaged and not as the pictures etc etc) case logged with the bay of E and she gets the buyer to send back the glasses.
Low and behold a bag of absolute st turns up, different box, different glasses and fake as well, broken and worthless.
Ebay finds for them. Little to no chance of regress.
fk Ebay.
Last item ever being sold on that nest of vipers.
Low and behold a bag of absolute s
t turns up, different box, different glasses and fake as well, broken and worthless. Ebay finds for them. Little to no chance of regress.
f
k Ebay.Last item ever being sold on that nest of vipers.
If you're a casual private seller, eBay is truly awful nowadays. They always, ALWAYS side with the buyer in disputes whilst making casual sellers adhere to practices far more suited to the traders on eBay who do it for a living.
Yes, you can get an awful lot of exposure and you really can sell any old st on there, but it's far too expensive - 10% flat fee up to a £750 final value fee including postage is a rip-off (it does NOT cost any more to sell a £500 item than it does to sell a £50 one. It just doesn't) and the fact that they force you to accept Paypal whilst they levy even more fees on you is ridiculous, and if you get fked over by a buyer, they don't give a st.
I also seem to encounter more and more dribbling retard sellers on there these days, particularly car spares "dealers" - receiving many rude and obnoxious replies to genuine questions and best offers - if you don't want to accept lower offers, set up the auto-decline feature, you thick morons.
Yes, you can get an awful lot of exposure and you really can sell any old s
t on there, but it's far too expensive - 10% flat fee up to a £750 final value fee including postage is a rip-off (it does NOT cost any more to sell a £500 item than it does to sell a £50 one. It just doesn't) and the fact that they force you to accept Paypal whilst they levy even more fees on you is ridiculous, and if you get fked over by a buyer, they don't give a st. I also seem to encounter more and more dribbling retard sellers on there these days, particularly car spares "dealers" - receiving many rude and obnoxious replies to genuine questions and best offers - if you don't want to accept lower offers, set up the auto-decline feature, you thick morons.
Pertinent timing... I've a trailer I want to sell so I've just stuck it up on Gumtree. I've never used Gumtree before but I've already had some contact asking for more info, so it seems to reach people. Maybe not as many as Ebay but if I can operate on the basis of old fashioned classifieds, I think it'd be easier than the stupid rules (and charges) from Ebay.
Does Craigslist work over here? I've heard anecdotal good things in forums about it.
Does Craigslist work over here? I've heard anecdotal good things in forums about it.
Watchman said:
Pertinent timing... I've a trailer I want to sell so I've just stuck it up on Gumtree. I've never used Gumtree before but I've already had some contact asking for more info, so it seems to reach people. Maybe not as many as Ebay but if I can operate on the basis of old fashioned classifieds, I think it'd be easier than the stupid rules (and charges) from Ebay.
Does Craigslist work over here? I've heard anecdotal good things in forums about it.
Gumtree is owned by eBay so you've still to get into bed with them, but it can be easier - small audience and if anything it attracts more idiots that eBay, but if you're willing to wait a bit it can be pretty good - it's the place to buy/sell Bangernomics candidates IMHO.Does Craigslist work over here? I've heard anecdotal good things in forums about it.
Lots of scams run on Gumtree too, I sold an expensive Mountain Bike about 3-4 years ago, the pictures and a bastardised version of my write-up was circulating Gumtree for years after. It's always listed as being in some remote location, only if you contact them they'll say "oh I'm sorry, it still in my Mums place in [other end of the country] but if you Paypal me I'll make sure it's posted". It was worth about £3k and they were offering it for £1000 - you only need one sucker who'll be too excited about their 'bargain' to stop to think about what they're doing.
Must admit, i very very rarely use ebay to sell, although i do pick up a few items from there sometimes.
I did start using Amazon to sell (and they are just as bed with fees etc) but thats becoming another scam website for people buying stuff and then doing a chargeback.
What happens is that people pay for items using a credit card, and then after a few days once they have delivery they file a chargeback claim through their credit card directly, which basically means, Amazon dont get involved.
I did start using Amazon to sell (and they are just as bed with fees etc) but thats becoming another scam website for people buying stuff and then doing a chargeback.
What happens is that people pay for items using a credit card, and then after a few days once they have delivery they file a chargeback claim through their credit card directly, which basically means, Amazon dont get involved.
Much prefer the local facebook neighbourhood "sell/swap" group for offloading household clutter these days. My one allows you to put a price for whatever you want rid of if you want to get a few quid back, or just put it for free if you just want someone else to reuse it or even just save you a trip to the dump. General rule is that the stuff goes to whoever responds first, so not suitable if you're determined to spend a week auctioning something off to the highest bidder.
- dead easy, just take a photo and slap it up there, no mega forms or rules to follow, interested group members can still post or PM questions if they want more info
- no fees to pay, cash straight in your hand
- no hassle, people that live round the corner don't tend to mess you about compared to anonymous people at the other end of the country who'll rip their own mother off given the chance
- generally stuff goes straight away (if the local group is big enough), no hanging about for a week waiting the auction to end
- dead easy, just take a photo and slap it up there, no mega forms or rules to follow, interested group members can still post or PM questions if they want more info
- no fees to pay, cash straight in your hand
- no hassle, people that live round the corner don't tend to mess you about compared to anonymous people at the other end of the country who'll rip their own mother off given the chance
- generally stuff goes straight away (if the local group is big enough), no hanging about for a week waiting the auction to end
kev1974 said:
Much prefer the local facebook neighbourhood "sell/swap" group for offloading household clutter these days. My one allows you to put a price for whatever you want rid of if you want to get a few quid back, or just put it for free if you just want someone else to reuse it or even just save you a trip to the dump. General rule is that the stuff goes to whoever responds first, so not suitable if you're determined to spend a week auctioning something off to the highest bidder.
- dead easy, just take a photo and slap it up there, no mega forms or rules to follow, interested group members can still post or PM questions if they want more info
- no fees to pay, cash straight in your hand
- no hassle, people that live round the corner don't tend to mess you about compared to anonymous people at the other end of the country who'll rip their own mother off given the chance
- generally stuff goes straight away (if the local group is big enough), no hanging about for a week waiting the auction to end
Was just about to post the same. Have given up on ebay for selling (though I will buy - with caution). Facebook selling pages working well for us at the moment - ok, so we're only reaching potential buyers in North Wilts and BANES, but it's much less hassle and no fees or postage to worry about.- dead easy, just take a photo and slap it up there, no mega forms or rules to follow, interested group members can still post or PM questions if they want more info
- no fees to pay, cash straight in your hand
- no hassle, people that live round the corner don't tend to mess you about compared to anonymous people at the other end of the country who'll rip their own mother off given the chance
- generally stuff goes straight away (if the local group is big enough), no hanging about for a week waiting the auction to end
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