False Accusations
Discussion
Not me but for my elderly father.
He inherited an instrument from his late brother (my uncle) who owned it from the early 1980's and as he doesn't play he decided it was time to sell it on and so listed it on eBay and gumtree with accurate description and detailed photographs.
Last week he received a email from a guy on eBay which claimed he owned the instrument 39 years ago and it was stolen from him 18 years ago. My father replied that his brother had owned it for nearly 35 years and that he was clearly mistaken.
Messages started off ok
"hi how long have you owned this?
I used to own this instrument.
Had to play it differently.
I lost this instrument 18 years ago from a pub in *place name*.
My father bought it for me 39 years ago in *place name*
I would like to have this instrument again.
Could you give me a ring on *phone number*
Thanks,
The instrument was then sold privately to a guy on gumtree but despite messages telling him this the guy is again messaging wanting to know if he has proof of ownership. He is basically insisting it is his despite my father not owning it anymore. He sent my father his number asking to have a 'chat'. Then today my father has told me that the guy has bought one of my fathers other cheaper eBay items to get his email address and again has sent several messages.
"I wrote to you regarding the instrument that you had for sale on eBay.
I mentioned to you that I am nearly certain that I owned this particular instrument and it
was stolen from me about 18 years ago. there
Are a few very distinct scratches and marks
On it that I recognised as I new this instrument like the back of my hand.
I am writing to you out of Intrest and I am in no way accusing you of taking it as I am sure you probably purchased in good faith probably many years ago.
I was just hoping to find out how you came to have it or from where you bought it. This instrument was of great sentimental value to me and I was very keen to buy it form you but all I was hoping was to see it first before I bought it.
Please don't be offended by my writing. if you still have it I would sincerely like to but it from you.
I would be deeply grateful if you could please get in touch with me."
My father is no longer the owner of the instrument and my uncle owned it for 35 years but this guy seems unable to take heed of the messages.. My father is in his 70's and is therefore slightly concerned having never been in trouble with the law.
I'm near sure this guy is trying to pull some kind of stunt by which he would turn up at my fathers house with the plod.
Not quite sure how to handle it. Whether to ignore any further messages or tell him straight that if he contacts my father again i'll be passing all further communication over to the local police station.
If it was me being accused i'd probably just tell them straight.
He inherited an instrument from his late brother (my uncle) who owned it from the early 1980's and as he doesn't play he decided it was time to sell it on and so listed it on eBay and gumtree with accurate description and detailed photographs.
Last week he received a email from a guy on eBay which claimed he owned the instrument 39 years ago and it was stolen from him 18 years ago. My father replied that his brother had owned it for nearly 35 years and that he was clearly mistaken.
Messages started off ok
"hi how long have you owned this?
I used to own this instrument.
Had to play it differently.
I lost this instrument 18 years ago from a pub in *place name*.
My father bought it for me 39 years ago in *place name*
I would like to have this instrument again.
Could you give me a ring on *phone number*
Thanks,
The instrument was then sold privately to a guy on gumtree but despite messages telling him this the guy is again messaging wanting to know if he has proof of ownership. He is basically insisting it is his despite my father not owning it anymore. He sent my father his number asking to have a 'chat'. Then today my father has told me that the guy has bought one of my fathers other cheaper eBay items to get his email address and again has sent several messages.
"I wrote to you regarding the instrument that you had for sale on eBay.
I mentioned to you that I am nearly certain that I owned this particular instrument and it
was stolen from me about 18 years ago. there
Are a few very distinct scratches and marks
On it that I recognised as I new this instrument like the back of my hand.
I am writing to you out of Intrest and I am in no way accusing you of taking it as I am sure you probably purchased in good faith probably many years ago.
I was just hoping to find out how you came to have it or from where you bought it. This instrument was of great sentimental value to me and I was very keen to buy it form you but all I was hoping was to see it first before I bought it.
Please don't be offended by my writing. if you still have it I would sincerely like to but it from you.
I would be deeply grateful if you could please get in touch with me."
My father is no longer the owner of the instrument and my uncle owned it for 35 years but this guy seems unable to take heed of the messages.. My father is in his 70's and is therefore slightly concerned having never been in trouble with the law.
I'm near sure this guy is trying to pull some kind of stunt by which he would turn up at my fathers house with the plod.
Not quite sure how to handle it. Whether to ignore any further messages or tell him straight that if he contacts my father again i'll be passing all further communication over to the local police station.
If it was me being accused i'd probably just tell them straight.
Edited by velocefica on Saturday 19th September 01:12
Edited by velocefica on Saturday 19th September 01:14
^^This^^
The guy is either a fruitloop (if your father no longer owns the instrument this guy can't buy it off him, can he?) or a chancer (although how he is going to make anything stick escapes me).
He claims his father bought the instrument for him in 1976 and it went missing in 1997, yet your uncle appears to have owned it from 1980 until he died when it was inherited by your father. Unless your uncle acquired it much later than he is said to have done then it's an utter crock of s
e.
I believe the expression is 'he who asserts must prove'. I suspect that the pesterer is going to have hard time doing so. I doubt he can be certain that it is even the same instrument. Does he have paperwork to back up his ownership claim? He also needs to make up his mind whether he lost (as in mislaid) it or it was actually stolen. If the latter, does he have a crime reference number? His story has as many holes as a Swiss cheese.
I would tell him politely once, and only once, more that he is mistaken (given the time discrepancy) and to refrain from further contact. Block his phone number and don't reply to e-mails. Keep them all though in case his future course of conduct could be deemed harrassment.
The guy is either a fruitloop (if your father no longer owns the instrument this guy can't buy it off him, can he?) or a chancer (although how he is going to make anything stick escapes me).
He claims his father bought the instrument for him in 1976 and it went missing in 1997, yet your uncle appears to have owned it from 1980 until he died when it was inherited by your father. Unless your uncle acquired it much later than he is said to have done then it's an utter crock of s
e.I believe the expression is 'he who asserts must prove'. I suspect that the pesterer is going to have hard time doing so. I doubt he can be certain that it is even the same instrument. Does he have paperwork to back up his ownership claim? He also needs to make up his mind whether he lost (as in mislaid) it or it was actually stolen. If the latter, does he have a crime reference number? His story has as many holes as a Swiss cheese.
I would tell him politely once, and only once, more that he is mistaken (given the time discrepancy) and to refrain from further contact. Block his phone number and don't reply to e-mails. Keep them all though in case his future course of conduct could be deemed harrassment.
Your father would have either had to have has some involvement with the theft or know or believed it to be stolen. If he didn't and doesn't, there's no issue from a criminal point of view.
As above, I'd consider telling the person claiming it is theirs, that it is now sold and no more assistance can be offered.
As above, I'd consider telling the person claiming it is theirs, that it is now sold and no more assistance can be offered.
What sort of instrument? This happens quite often with vintage guitars. Miscreants would linger outside a pub/club at closing time and help themselves to some gear or even the whole Transit van. And as some guitars can be worth well over £100,000 the arguments are significant. Someone out there has Clapton's 'Beano' Les Paul, and if/when it comes on the market it will be spotted very quickly. Not sure that Clapton could/would try to recover it though.
Establishing ownership after all this time for undocumented 'ordinary' guitars would be tricky. And it doesn't help that some guitarists' memories are dusty (or alco/drug impaired), confuddled with guitars that have come/gone, or been borrowed/lent/given away over the years.
In your father's shoes, I'd just politely repeat the known family history, say it's since been sold, and that you wish the guy luck in finding his instrument.
Establishing ownership after all this time for undocumented 'ordinary' guitars would be tricky. And it doesn't help that some guitarists' memories are dusty (or alco/drug impaired), confuddled with guitars that have come/gone, or been borrowed/lent/given away over the years.
In your father's shoes, I'd just politely repeat the known family history, say it's since been sold, and that you wish the guy luck in finding his instrument.
Is it really feasible that somebody could absolutely positively identify THIS particular instrument as THEIR particular instrument, after not seeing it for nearly two decades, from the photos in an online ad?
Is this instrument so unique in some way? Can they actually produce the slightest evidence to back their story up?
Is this instrument so unique in some way? Can they actually produce the slightest evidence to back their story up?
there is a faint sniff of a scam here.....
Person you sold it to may be in on this with the other guy -
A has the instrument.
B claims is was his and stolen from him
C buys said instrument from A
C returns instrument to B
C comes after A and demands refund for the item.
B and C split the differnece and walk away with cash and instrument.
Person you sold it to may be in on this with the other guy -
A has the instrument.
B claims is was his and stolen from him
C buys said instrument from A
C returns instrument to B
C comes after A and demands refund for the item.
B and C split the differnece and walk away with cash and instrument.
TooMany2cvs said:
Is it really feasible that somebody could absolutely positively identify THIS particular instrument as THEIR particular instrument, after not seeing it for nearly two decades, from the photos in an online ad
Yes. Musicians develop a genuine affinity for some of their instruments, and will know every flaw. If it got marked very distinctively during the victim's ownership, it would be very easy to spot.And, the chances that the OP's father can be sure it's the same instrument that was in his brother's ownership continuously are not high. He doesn't play, and, speaking about guitars, most people think that every sunburst Strat looks the same as every other. So the brother could have swapped guitars and the OP's dad wouldn't know. For sure, my family have no idea about mine.
I'm only saying that it's feasible, not that the victim has a case that's likely to succeed.
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