New Mid Range vs Used High Range

[Martin4356111]

Evening all,

I'm looking for some advice before I commit to my next watch purchase.

I already own a Red Arrows Citizen (around £500) and a Torgoen limited edition 29 squadron (£350) and I'm liking the idea of having a little collection.

I've got around £1000 to spend on my next watch which I know isn't a lot. However, its decent amount to me so I want to make sure I'm buying the right watch.

So my question is, do I go for a new Mid range watch like a Hamilton or Longines or do I go for a used high(ish) end marque like an Omega or Breitling? There seems to be quite a market for these. I've seen a fair few Omega Seamaster's sub £1000 and a late 90's Breitling for just over a grand.

Any advice would be appreciated.

In the mean time, i'll keep saving for that Bremont I have my eye on.

Martin

Edited by Martin4356111 on Sunday 20th September 23:01

[bobbybee]

Buying second hand will give you better value for money so more watch for the cash. As long a it has been recently serviced and from a reputable seller personally I'd go second hand. If going new you do get the fuzzy warm feeling from AD service and warranty though. So it's really up to you which you feel most comfortable with.
BTW
Hamilton is low end, Longines is higher up but still in the low end of the market. Omega and Breitling are mid-tier.
High end your looking at AP, PP, VC

[Lorneg]

I'd go brand new with a swiss automatic movement. The funny thing about mid-range and high-end watches is that generally speaking they're all made from stainless steel and run the same movements.

The Longines Hydroconquest: £995, http://www.chisholmhunter.co.uk/longines-hydro-con... Runs an ETA base movement in a stainless steel case.

The IWC Spitfire: About £6k, also looks like it runs the same ETA movement in a stainless steel case. http://forums.watchuseek.com/f350/questions-about-...

So what are you paying for in the price difference?

[Ikemi]

Lorneg said:

I'd go brand new with a swiss automatic movement. The funny thing about mid-range and high-end watches is that generally speaking they're all made from stainless steel and run the same movements.

The Longines Hydroconquest: £995, http://www.chisholmhunter.co.uk/longines-hydro-con... Runs an ETA base movement in a stainless steel case.

The IWC Spitfire: About £6k, also looks like it runs the same ETA movement in a stainless steel case. http://forums.watchuseek.com/f350/questions-about-...

So what are you paying for in the price difference?

Not strictly true. I don't mean to go off-topic, but there are varying grades of ETA movement within the ETA company itself; standard, elabor, top and chronometer.

It's also worth noting that many companies, including IWC, modify the ETA (or ask ETA to do this for them!) movement substantially. Just look at the Omega co-axial movement, for example. I believe the ETA movement in the IWC Dopplechrono comprises of more IWC bits than ETA bits! As such, it's difficult to compare an ETA movement in a very good Longines with an ETA movement in a more expensive IWC.

Also, look at in-house movements ... Why spend £20K on a PP when you can get an in-house movement from Nomos for £1-2K? It all depends on budget and what is important to you!

OP, I'd go second hand. There are so many watches that are bought and sold on within days/weeks (owner not bonding with it), or have been stored in safes their entire lives, you can get a mint second hand piece for a lot less. Let someone else pay the depreciation and buy a better piece for your £1K! Also, if you ever want to sell the piece to fund the Bremont, you'll get roughly what you paid for it - Not c.50% back, as per a new £1K piece.

[ReaperCushions]

Lorneg said:

So what are you paying for in the price difference?

Marketing and brand positioning.

[SVS]

You're paying for this marketing and brand positioning.

[marcosgt]

Do you buy cars new or used?

It's effectively the same argument.

There's something nice about having a brand new car/watch that's never been owned by someone else, but would you rather drive a new Kia/Hyundai or a nice condition, but used, Mercedes/BMW? (Insert your own brands here, I'm not making analogies between Longines/Hamilton and Omega/Breitling here, before we disappear down another rathole).

You decide - I do have a few watches I bought new, including a Longines Hydroconquest as I found it very hard to find a used one, but at any price point, used will always deliver better value than new.

Personally, starting from where you are, I'd look at new and used, but choose STRICTLY on what you like best.

If you REALLY like the Seamaster, buy a used one, but if you'd be just as happy with a Hydroconquest, try and find a used one of those and keep half your £1000!

M

[TheJimi]

Further, do you want lots of horological bang for buck?

If so, go Seiko.

It may not get you the perceived kudos down the pub, but in terms of what you'd get for your money, £1k gets you a LOT of watch from Seiko.

and *everything* is in-house

[Lorneg]

Ikemi said:

Lorneg said:

I'd go brand new with a swiss automatic movement. The funny thing about mid-range and high-end watches is that generally speaking they're all made from stainless steel and run the same movements.

The Longines Hydroconquest: £995, http://www.chisholmhunter.co.uk/longines-hydro-con... Runs an ETA base movement in a stainless steel case.

The IWC Spitfire: About £6k, also looks like it runs the same ETA movement in a stainless steel case. http://forums.watchuseek.com/f350/questions-about-...

So what are you paying for in the price difference?

Not strictly true. I don't mean to go off-topic, but there are varying grades of ETA movement within the ETA company itself; standard, elabor, top and chronometer.

It's also worth noting that many companies, including IWC, modify the ETA (or ask ETA to do this for them!) movement substantially. Just look at the Omega co-axial movement, for example. I believe the ETA movement in the IWC Dopplechrono comprises of more IWC bits than ETA bits! As such, it's difficult to compare an ETA movement in a very good Longines with an ETA movement in a more expensive IWC.

Also, look at in-house movements ... Why spend £20K on a PP when you can get an in-house movement from Nomos for £1-2K? It all depends on budget and what is important to you!

OP, I'd go second hand. There are so many watches that are bought and sold on within days/weeks (owner not bonding with it), or have been stored in safes their entire lives, you can get a mint second hand piece for a lot less. Let someone else pay the depreciation and buy a better piece for your £1K! Also, if you ever want to sell the piece to fund the Bremont, you'll get roughly what you paid for it - Not c.50% back, as per a new £1K piece.

OT, but yes, there's a lot of modification to base ETA movements. I do exactly the same with the movements I use; built to my own spec in the factory and then further modified outside the factory to add a nice self winding rotor, better fixity and greater accuracy. Doesn't mean charging an extra £4k per watch though! (kind of wish it did actually)

[Ikemi]

Lorneg said:

OT, but yes, there's a lot of modification to base ETA movements. I do exactly the same with the movements I use; built to my own spec in the factory and then further modified outside the factory to add a nice self winding rotor, better fixity and greater accuracy. Doesn't mean charging an extra £4k per watch though! (kind of wish it did actually)

You do have a point! That said, I guess IWC can charge the extra, what with marketing, brand placement and the fact the majority of their pieces are desirable to watch enthusiasts and Joe Public. You could argue that IWC are a bargain in comparison to Hublot (;)), who as you know, use ETA movements (with exception to the UNICO) and charge £10K+ for pieces ... Still, people buy them! (Including watch enthusiasts!)

[AlexC1981]

You can't tell how a watch will make you feel from it's price point and spec sheet. Try some on, look at lots of on-wrist photos, read owners reviews. Understand the heritage of the watch from reading the history of the maker and the model you are looking at. Don't rush into a decision.

I sound so pompous

[Madness60]

Keep saving and wait for the Bremont, very worth the wait

Which one are you eying up?

This one



This one



or another one?

[Lorneg]

SVS said:

You're paying for this marketing and brand positioning.

Completely Off Topic but it's a good video. Am I mistaken or did he say something at 5 mins 20 seconds that sounds strangely along the same lines Gerald Ratner unuttered in a speech once??

Couldn't help clicking on the IWC Pilots watch commercial next to it; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf2oJjUoG0I Absolutely brilliant! 2 clipped wing spitfires close in on a Junkers tri-motor and instead of blasting it out of the sky they play chase the stockings. Makes me think why the IWC is called the Spitfire? Surely it'd be more appropriate to call it the messerschmitt and give it a little yellow nose.

Anyway they're lovely watches, as is everything listed here so far. Key thing I think is a mechanical movement and something that suits you and is not bought for how you think other people will think of it.

[andy_s]

Lorneg said:

Anyway they're lovely watches, as is everything listed here so far. Key thing I think is a mechanical movement and something that suits you and is not bought for how you think other people will think of it.

I'd agree with that sentiment.