Graduate Job applications
Discussion
I am just entering my third year at university, studying law. I had previously wanted to do law at a big commercial city firm and earn tonnes and tonnes of money, but have found myself hating law, and can imagine literally nothing worse than spending hours of every day doing it.
So I have tried to research other options. I have no real preference as to which job I want: only that it be reasonably good, reasonably well paid and with a good scope for career advancement.
Due to the way in which my degree is structured, my second year results were ok, but fall under the 2:2 category. I am working towards a 2:1, and think it likely I will achieve this, and therefore do not feel like a fake in answering the question "Are you currently on a 2:1 or expected to get a 2:1?" with a yes.
This is all background. My question really is: has anyone any advice or knowledge about graduate schemes for me? It could be that you have just gone into one, are a well built company director who recommends their own grad scheme or any other scenario.
I have tried my own research but graduate recruitment pages are nearly always incomprehensible and badly written.
Thanks in advance
So I have tried to research other options. I have no real preference as to which job I want: only that it be reasonably good, reasonably well paid and with a good scope for career advancement.
Due to the way in which my degree is structured, my second year results were ok, but fall under the 2:2 category. I am working towards a 2:1, and think it likely I will achieve this, and therefore do not feel like a fake in answering the question "Are you currently on a 2:1 or expected to get a 2:1?" with a yes.
This is all background. My question really is: has anyone any advice or knowledge about graduate schemes for me? It could be that you have just gone into one, are a well built company director who recommends their own grad scheme or any other scenario.
I have tried my own research but graduate recruitment pages are nearly always incomprehensible and badly written.
Thanks in advance
I'm at the same point just now but except deciding what kind of engineering I want to get into with a mechanical degree. But I spent a loooooonnnngggg time in 3rd year trying to find a summer placement so understand how it is to look at those websites and come away more unsure tan you were before.
You need to decide what kind of thing you want to do... Or at least what sector you'd like to work in.
You'll find though that although you don't like the law, a lot of jobs will be similar to it except instead of drafting a notice for your partner you'll be making a report on something else.
The other thing to keep in mind is that (a lot of the time) companies can be picky depending on what uni you go to.
Other than that, read about companies, research them, check out which companies most fit your values and work for them.
Or choose something that will let you gain skills to start your own company in the future...
You need to decide what kind of thing you want to do... Or at least what sector you'd like to work in.
You'll find though that although you don't like the law, a lot of jobs will be similar to it except instead of drafting a notice for your partner you'll be making a report on something else.
The other thing to keep in mind is that (a lot of the time) companies can be picky depending on what uni you go to.
Other than that, read about companies, research them, check out which companies most fit your values and work for them.
Or choose something that will let you gain skills to start your own company in the future...
How about the property industry maybe in investments for the large commercial firms or in Development as a land buyer/developer.
There is good money in the industry and there are jobs, as there is just not enough people entering the industry as there are leaving.
I've just started my graduate scheme for a well known developer as a land graduate. The starting salary is good (mid twenties) and progression can be quick. It a interesting job also, I get to travel and see some pretty interesting things.
There is good money in the industry and there are jobs, as there is just not enough people entering the industry as there are leaving.
I've just started my graduate scheme for a well known developer as a land graduate. The starting salary is good (mid twenties) and progression can be quick. It a interesting job also, I get to travel and see some pretty interesting things.
Edited by olivebrown on Monday 21st September 19:12
olivebrown said:
How about the property industry maybe in investments for the large commercial firms or in Development as a land buyer/developer.
There is good money in the industry and there are jobs, as there is just not enough people entering the industry as there are leaving.
I've just started my graduate scheme for a well known developer as a land graduate. The starting salary is good (mid twenties) and progression can be quick. It a interesting job also, I get to travel and see some pretty interesting things.
Might I ask where? Which firms did you look at in comparison? Why did you decide on that particular firm?There is good money in the industry and there are jobs, as there is just not enough people entering the industry as there are leaving.
I've just started my graduate scheme for a well known developer as a land graduate. The starting salary is good (mid twenties) and progression can be quick. It a interesting job also, I get to travel and see some pretty interesting things.
Edited by olivebrown on Monday 21st September 19:12
Twin2 said:
I'm at the same point just now but except deciding what kind of engineering I want to get into with a mechanical degree. But I spent a loooooonnnngggg time in 3rd year trying to find a summer placement so understand how it is to look at those websites and come away more unsure tan you were before.
You need to decide what kind of thing you want to do... Or at least what sector you'd like to work in.
You'll find though that although you don't like the law, a lot of jobs will be similar to it except instead of drafting a notice for your partner you'll be making a report on something else.
The other thing to keep in mind is that (a lot of the time) companies can be picky depending on what uni you go to.
Other than that, read about companies, research them, check out which companies most fit your values and work for them.
Or choose something that will let you gain skills to start your own company in the future...
Regarding uni snobbery, I attend Uni of Nottingham. Not a bad uni, and good for law, so I might not experience that, unless Oxbridge/Durham snobbery is still around and kicking?You need to decide what kind of thing you want to do... Or at least what sector you'd like to work in.
You'll find though that although you don't like the law, a lot of jobs will be similar to it except instead of drafting a notice for your partner you'll be making a report on something else.
The other thing to keep in mind is that (a lot of the time) companies can be picky depending on what uni you go to.
Other than that, read about companies, research them, check out which companies most fit your values and work for them.
Or choose something that will let you gain skills to start your own company in the future...
Good points all round though, thank you
i studied engineering at uni and really didn't enjoy it. i graduated 13 years ago and worked in various engineering roles since. can't say i've ever had a bad job and the one i have now is very interesting indeed. it also has diddly squat in common with all the maths and physics i was lectured on.
i can imagine law is the same. many different fields and many varied roles available if you look at it obliquely. any company working with large budgets and high risks [oil/energy/aerospace etc.] would provide interesting legal or commercial roles.
i can imagine law is the same. many different fields and many varied roles available if you look at it obliquely. any company working with large budgets and high risks [oil/energy/aerospace etc.] would provide interesting legal or commercial roles.
Twin2 said:
I'm at the same point just now but except deciding what kind of engineering I want to get into with a mechanical degree. But I spent a loooooonnnngggg time in 3rd year trying to find a summer placement so understand how it is to look at those websites and come away more unsure tan you were before.
You need to decide what kind of thing you want to do... Or at least what sector you'd like to work in.
You'll find though that although you don't like the law, a lot of jobs will be similar to it except instead of drafting a notice for your partner you'll be making a report on something else.
The other thing to keep in mind is that (a lot of the time) companies can be picky depending on what uni you go to.
Other than that, read about companies, research them, check out which companies most fit your values and work for them.
Or choose something that will let you gain skills to start your own company in the future...
I don't usually pull other people's responses in but this was an excellent response.You need to decide what kind of thing you want to do... Or at least what sector you'd like to work in.
You'll find though that although you don't like the law, a lot of jobs will be similar to it except instead of drafting a notice for your partner you'll be making a report on something else.
The other thing to keep in mind is that (a lot of the time) companies can be picky depending on what uni you go to.
Other than that, read about companies, research them, check out which companies most fit your values and work for them.
Or choose something that will let you gain skills to start your own company in the future...
As it states, what does interest you if law doesn't? If you can bring some focus on to that then some more pointed responses may follow.
There should be careers events/fairs happening around now that you go along to. Your careers service will also be able to offer guidance and they're generally worth having a chat with.
Once you have a better idea of what you want to do these sites will help with the applications processes:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f...
https://www.wikijob.co.uk/
Once you have a better idea of what you want to do these sites will help with the applications processes:
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f...
https://www.wikijob.co.uk/
Just to play Devil's Advocate, have you had any experience of actually practising law? You might have some deep-rooted objections to that area, but I'd recommend getting experience of that before you completely rule it out as it can be a rewarding career, both financially and intellectually.
As a bit of background, I'm a recent law graduate, so a year or so ahead of you (and also happen to be Twin2 above's, well, twin). I've also accepted a training contract at an international commercial firm after doing a couple of summer placements. I was similar to you in that I was worried about the rest of my life being the same as uni. Sure there were certain areas I found interesting, but they'd only last maybe one lecture and I was pretty bored most days. However, experienced lawyers will tell you too: legal practice is a very different beast from legal study. I also had a friend who HATED law: all day he went on about how awful uni was, how he didn't want to be a lawyer etc, but having been convinced/strong-armed into a placement he changed his mind instantly and is about to pack his bags for the Silver Circle.
Honestly the best thing I did was a summer placement. I came home every night and harped on (as much as my confidentiality agreement allowed me to) about the day's work and how interesting it was. It was very little to do with the wording of judgements and black letter law. So one piece of advice is to try it!
PS, if you want to chat any more about being a trainee etc just PM me.
As a bit of background, I'm a recent law graduate, so a year or so ahead of you (and also happen to be Twin2 above's, well, twin). I've also accepted a training contract at an international commercial firm after doing a couple of summer placements. I was similar to you in that I was worried about the rest of my life being the same as uni. Sure there were certain areas I found interesting, but they'd only last maybe one lecture and I was pretty bored most days. However, experienced lawyers will tell you too: legal practice is a very different beast from legal study. I also had a friend who HATED law: all day he went on about how awful uni was, how he didn't want to be a lawyer etc, but having been convinced/strong-armed into a placement he changed his mind instantly and is about to pack his bags for the Silver Circle.
Honestly the best thing I did was a summer placement. I came home every night and harped on (as much as my confidentiality agreement allowed me to) about the day's work and how interesting it was. It was very little to do with the wording of judgements and black letter law. So one piece of advice is to try it!
PS, if you want to chat any more about being a trainee etc just PM me.
More good responses all round.
I'm not really sure what interests me, as I have only ever had experience as a lawyer, which was quite good. I haven't explored any other options really and have no idea where to start. The careers fair is a good place to look of course, good thinking
I think that there are a number of things impacting my feelings about law. Firstly, the idea of doing a year of study for the legal qualification leaves me cold. Secondly, as both of my parents are lawyers and a lot of people I know are lawyers, I have quite a detailed look into the legal world, and the ways in which they hire people, and that has put me right off. Thirdly, I think I might be suffering a bit from the grass is always greener complex, where I want to try literally anything else that isn't law in the hope it will be better.
Having said that, to answer Twin1's question, I don't have any experience of practising law, and I got no internships, but I have had week long work experience at Clifford Chance and CMS, which I did find interesting, but I worry it was interesting because it was something new to me, and a new experience. I quite enjoyed experience with a family barrister, and two weeks in an employment law firm was good, but a long time ago and before I had any ambition to become a lawyer.
Part of my concern in this area is that all I have ever thought about was being a lawyer, and I know the process inside out, which firms to apply to etc. so stepping off that well worn path into the wilderness has been pretty daunting and I think I might be lost! I'll have a look at the oil/energy/aerospace companies, and the websites recommended, and will also do some soul searching as to what I want.
Any other thoughts are most welcome indeed!
P.S. I love Twin1 and Twin2, great usernames
I'm not really sure what interests me, as I have only ever had experience as a lawyer, which was quite good. I haven't explored any other options really and have no idea where to start. The careers fair is a good place to look of course, good thinking
I think that there are a number of things impacting my feelings about law. Firstly, the idea of doing a year of study for the legal qualification leaves me cold. Secondly, as both of my parents are lawyers and a lot of people I know are lawyers, I have quite a detailed look into the legal world, and the ways in which they hire people, and that has put me right off. Thirdly, I think I might be suffering a bit from the grass is always greener complex, where I want to try literally anything else that isn't law in the hope it will be better.
Having said that, to answer Twin1's question, I don't have any experience of practising law, and I got no internships, but I have had week long work experience at Clifford Chance and CMS, which I did find interesting, but I worry it was interesting because it was something new to me, and a new experience. I quite enjoyed experience with a family barrister, and two weeks in an employment law firm was good, but a long time ago and before I had any ambition to become a lawyer.
Part of my concern in this area is that all I have ever thought about was being a lawyer, and I know the process inside out, which firms to apply to etc. so stepping off that well worn path into the wilderness has been pretty daunting and I think I might be lost! I'll have a look at the oil/energy/aerospace companies, and the websites recommended, and will also do some soul searching as to what I want.
Any other thoughts are most welcome indeed!
P.S. I love Twin1 and Twin2, great usernames
You could also have a look at Patent law?
Also if you are looking to get into the sciences then perhaps look at doing a masters - If you were a big company hiring, you'd be pretty impressed with a 2:1 law graduate with a masters in whatever wouldn't you
As an aside, definitely definitely get that 2:1 if you are serious about these roles, they might sift thousands of CV's and anything below that mark will be cut immediately.
Also if you are looking to get into the sciences then perhaps look at doing a masters - If you were a big company hiring, you'd be pretty impressed with a 2:1 law graduate with a masters in whatever wouldn't you
As an aside, definitely definitely get that 2:1 if you are serious about these roles, they might sift thousands of CV's and anything below that mark will be cut immediately.
YoungRestorer said:
I am just entering my third year at university, studying law. I had previously wanted to do law at a big commercial city firm and earn tonnes and tonnes of money, but have found myself hating law, and can imagine literally nothing worse than spending hours of every day doing it.
So I have tried to research other options. I have no real preference as to which job I want: only that it be reasonably good, reasonably well paid and with a good scope for career advancement.
Due to the way in which my degree is structured, my second year results were ok, but fall under the 2:2 category. I am working towards a 2:1, and think it likely I will achieve this, and therefore do not feel like a fake in answering the question "Are you currently on a 2:1 or expected to get a 2:1?" with a yes.
This is all background. My question really is: has anyone any advice or knowledge about graduate schemes for me? It could be that you have just gone into one, are a well built company director who recommends their own grad scheme or any other scenario.
I have tried my own research but graduate recruitment pages are nearly always incomprehensible and badly written.
Thanks in advance
Don't worry too much about graduate schemes.So I have tried to research other options. I have no real preference as to which job I want: only that it be reasonably good, reasonably well paid and with a good scope for career advancement.
Due to the way in which my degree is structured, my second year results were ok, but fall under the 2:2 category. I am working towards a 2:1, and think it likely I will achieve this, and therefore do not feel like a fake in answering the question "Are you currently on a 2:1 or expected to get a 2:1?" with a yes.
This is all background. My question really is: has anyone any advice or knowledge about graduate schemes for me? It could be that you have just gone into one, are a well built company director who recommends their own grad scheme or any other scenario.
I have tried my own research but graduate recruitment pages are nearly always incomprehensible and badly written.
Thanks in advance
I have a half decent Law undergrad degree. I started the LPC. I didn't enjoy it. I fell into a job and was working in recruitment. I then completed an Msc in HR. 10+ years I am still happy with my career and choices
Jaska said:
You could also have a look at Patent law?
Also if you are looking to get into the sciences then perhaps look at doing a masters - If you were a big company hiring, you'd be pretty impressed with a 2:1 law graduate with a masters in whatever wouldn't you
As an aside, definitely definitely get that 2:1 if you are serious about these roles, they might sift thousands of CV's and anything below that mark will be cut immediately.
Was thinking this as well - any company that develops patentable things needs patent lawyers - we have at least a dozen where I work. Also if you are looking to get into the sciences then perhaps look at doing a masters - If you were a big company hiring, you'd be pretty impressed with a 2:1 law graduate with a masters in whatever wouldn't you
As an aside, definitely definitely get that 2:1 if you are serious about these roles, they might sift thousands of CV's and anything below that mark will be cut immediately.
Interesting Q and I was in a similar position in 2013.
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do upon graduation, so I applied for an MSc in an area that interested me as a backup and ended up doing that. Somehow managed to get a scholarship for the school as well, which reduced (yet didn't eliminate) the fees. Academically, the degree wasn't especially useful, but I met some very interesting people and it gave me room to experiment with some different part-time jobs and projects. The 'branding' of the university also helped with finding a job that I wanted after.
In the end, after toying with a number of different industries (consultancy, banking, property, asset management, etc.), I decided to just apply for somewhere that I thought was doing really cool 'stuff'. I had previously worked at an oil company and a hedge fund for internships, so I knew these were boring as sin. For me, the excitement was in the tech space and I found it incredible how much easier it was to write a cover letter when I was truly interested (if not yet passionate) about what the company was doing. I only applied to two firms, and I got the job at one of them and got rejected from the second one after 9 (!) interviews.
The conclusion I drew here was that you should really follow your interests. If you really know you hate law, which it sounds like you do, the good-natured advice here about specific areas of law you may have not explored yet is bunkum. If you don't like it, don't kid yourself. Find an area you like, find out everything you can about it, make sure you can make decent money there (this is important!) and then apply.
Happy to expand if you drop me a PM.
Edited to add... Make sure you get a 2:1 or you're screwed. Also get as much work experience as you can - you don't mention work experience in your post but no-one decent will touch you with a ten-foot barge pole unless you have some experience - the better 'brand' (I hate that) the more chance you have to get into competitive roles.
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do upon graduation, so I applied for an MSc in an area that interested me as a backup and ended up doing that. Somehow managed to get a scholarship for the school as well, which reduced (yet didn't eliminate) the fees. Academically, the degree wasn't especially useful, but I met some very interesting people and it gave me room to experiment with some different part-time jobs and projects. The 'branding' of the university also helped with finding a job that I wanted after.
In the end, after toying with a number of different industries (consultancy, banking, property, asset management, etc.), I decided to just apply for somewhere that I thought was doing really cool 'stuff'. I had previously worked at an oil company and a hedge fund for internships, so I knew these were boring as sin. For me, the excitement was in the tech space and I found it incredible how much easier it was to write a cover letter when I was truly interested (if not yet passionate) about what the company was doing. I only applied to two firms, and I got the job at one of them and got rejected from the second one after 9 (!) interviews.
The conclusion I drew here was that you should really follow your interests. If you really know you hate law, which it sounds like you do, the good-natured advice here about specific areas of law you may have not explored yet is bunkum. If you don't like it, don't kid yourself. Find an area you like, find out everything you can about it, make sure you can make decent money there (this is important!) and then apply.
Happy to expand if you drop me a PM.
Edited to add... Make sure you get a 2:1 or you're screwed. Also get as much work experience as you can - you don't mention work experience in your post but no-one decent will touch you with a ten-foot barge pole unless you have some experience - the better 'brand' (I hate that) the more chance you have to get into competitive roles.
Edited by 22s on Friday 25th September 17:59
Monty Python said:
Jaska said:
You could also have a look at Patent law?
Also if you are looking to get into the sciences then perhaps look at doing a masters - If you were a big company hiring, you'd be pretty impressed with a 2:1 law graduate with a masters in whatever wouldn't you
As an aside, definitely definitely get that 2:1 if you are serious about these roles, they might sift thousands of CV's and anything below that mark will be cut immediately.
Was thinking this as well - any company that develops patentable things needs patent lawyers - we have at least a dozen where I work. Also if you are looking to get into the sciences then perhaps look at doing a masters - If you were a big company hiring, you'd be pretty impressed with a 2:1 law graduate with a masters in whatever wouldn't you
As an aside, definitely definitely get that 2:1 if you are serious about these roles, they might sift thousands of CV's and anything below that mark will be cut immediately.
well, 20yrs later, after a lot of learning and various postings in the uk, he know works for google. lives in san fran, works all over the US and i imagine gets a look behind the scenes at whats coming next in the world of high tech ideas. he also gets paid a fortune.
I am both a director and well built. I also run our grad scheme & we made 2 offers (which were accepted) last week. It is a bit different from when I was involved in the grad recruitment process for a Big4 firm but hopefully I can pass on some useful info from this side of the fence.
With regard to the original question, I would say that if you believe you can achieve a 2:1 then use that grade. While there is nothing wrong with a 2:2, employers have to filter somehow and degree classification + UCAS points is an easy way to do that (although a few co's are apparently dropping that).
While focusing on quals is not perfect, it has it's uses. To put it in perspective we advertised on Milkround for 1 month, got 250ish applications, interviewed 10 and offered to 2.
220ish people met the minimum criteria (2:1, 280 UCAS). I read the cover letter and CV of every single one of those & it is at that stage that a candidate can impress.
In terms of general advice, do what the application process requires & try to understand what they are looking for. If I ask you to say why you want to work for us and what you can bring, don't give me generic spiel, personalise it without blowing smoke up my (powerfully built) arse. Find something on our website/twitter/LinkedIn pages and refer to it. It will show you have researched us.
You mention that some grad pages are incomprehensible. Without examples it's hard judge but if you have questions then ask. If there aren't any contact details then use your initiatice and find some. Drop an email asking for clarifications. Even in a larger firm your application will quite possibly be reviewed by the person who answered the question.
Good luck OP!
With regard to the original question, I would say that if you believe you can achieve a 2:1 then use that grade. While there is nothing wrong with a 2:2, employers have to filter somehow and degree classification + UCAS points is an easy way to do that (although a few co's are apparently dropping that).
While focusing on quals is not perfect, it has it's uses. To put it in perspective we advertised on Milkround for 1 month, got 250ish applications, interviewed 10 and offered to 2.
220ish people met the minimum criteria (2:1, 280 UCAS). I read the cover letter and CV of every single one of those & it is at that stage that a candidate can impress.
In terms of general advice, do what the application process requires & try to understand what they are looking for. If I ask you to say why you want to work for us and what you can bring, don't give me generic spiel, personalise it without blowing smoke up my (powerfully built) arse. Find something on our website/twitter/LinkedIn pages and refer to it. It will show you have researched us.
You mention that some grad pages are incomprehensible. Without examples it's hard judge but if you have questions then ask. If there aren't any contact details then use your initiatice and find some. Drop an email asking for clarifications. Even in a larger firm your application will quite possibly be reviewed by the person who answered the question.
Good luck OP!
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff