Engine blip on startup
Discussion
I stalled my car yesterday, and managed to flood the engine. Anyway I remembered Trevors flood clearing technique (full throttle on startup). It worked a treat and sounded fantastic as it fired up with a big blip of revs.
Why doesn't the car do the blip on startup as standard? Afaik ferraris and lambos all do this?
Ok its a petty pose thing, but when you start a sports car its traditional now and boy did it sound cool!
m12_nathan said:
Because when you first start it the oil is cold and at a low pressure and it could introduce unessessary wear I guess?
Exactly.
When you've left the car all night the oil floats into the sump and only a thin coating remains on the parts. This is all that's there to lubricate the engine until the oil pump fires up properly which can be a second or two. This is why the oil pressure light stays on for a couple of seconds.
My dad always gives cars a blip on start-up. As good as the Noble sounds when he does it, I keep telling him off.
yellowshed said:
It's a lot simpler than that. Noble don't yet use an idle speed control valve, so there is nothing there to give the engine more air to get that "blip" other than your foot!
YellowShed
ah ok! I was slightly embarassed posting about it as I know its a complete vanity, but half the point of ridiculous cars like this that you can barely tap into on the road is the ceremony of it all. That noise is cool!
So do you think doing it manually will cause untoward wear on the drive train? (obviously not asking you, Roush or Noble to warranty any comment on this!) If it is on the noble, how come ferraris/lambos etc all do it?
Thanks,
Dan
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
But (warning, totally off-the-top-of-my-head theory coming) as the oil pump is totally dependant on engine revs, and we assume that oil will arrive in 2000 revolutions time, it makes little difference.
Or, I'm talking arse.
So how much wear on your bearings do you want? An idle start up , low revs , low power, little stress on the bearings.
"Blip" start, loadsawelly, power rises rapidly, say 200+ bhp, and on the same bearings that just have that light covering of overnight drained away oil. Yes its true that the oil arrives after the same 2000 revs (or whatever number it is) but its the load the bearings are subject to whilst waiting for the oil to arrive that counts?
My grandpa used to turn his engines over by hand to get the oil system charged before he started them.
Regards
Paul C
paulcundy said:
So how much wear on your bearings do you want? An idle start up , low revs , low power, little stress on the bearings.
"Blip" start, loadsawelly, power rises rapidly, say 200+ bhp, and on the same bearings that just have that light covering of overnight drained away oil.
Yup, totally understand that but (I still reserve my talking arse get out here) is there really that much load generated, assuming the 'blip' is in the 4000rpm range (another totally unfounded guess)?
Your Grampa's trick works of course. I wonder though, how many revs he turned. About as many as our engines crank before they fire? hhhmmm.
Me? I'll have a non-blip start thanks. Regardless of how much wear is really generated, if there's no reason for it, it's probably best not to do it.
paulcundy said:
But (warning, totally off-the-top-of-my-head theory coming) as the oil pump is totally dependant on engine revs, and we assume that oil will arrive in 2000 revolutions time, it makes little difference.
Or, I'm talking arse.
So how much wear on your bearings do you want? An idle start up , low revs , low power, little stress on the bearings.
"Blip" start, loadsawelly, power rises rapidly, say 200+ bhp, and on the same bearings that just have that light covering of overnight drained away oil. Yes its true that the oil arrives after the same 2000 revs (or whatever number it is) but its the load the bearings are subject to whilst waiting for the oil to arrive that counts?
My grandpa used to turn his engines over by hand to get the oil system charged before he started them.
Regards
Paul C
I would think that once the engine is broken in and you have switched to Mobil 1 Synthetic, the initial cold-start wear issue is significantly reduced by the better cling factor of the synthetic oil?
yellowshed said:
It's a lot simpler than that. Noble don't yet use an idle speed control valve, so there is nothing there to give the engine more air to get that "blip" other than your foot!
YellowShed
Does that mean that there are plans to do? and if so will anti-lag be an option? I know it's not really needed, is childish, and does horrible things to turbos and exhausts, but I do miss the Escort shooting 3 ft flames out at night when lifting off. and it scares the hell out of anyone following you.
caccobra said:
I would think that once the engine is broken in and you have switched to Mobil 1 Synthetic, the initial cold-start wear issue is significantly reduced by the better cling factor of the synthetic oil?
Is this better than the Noble recommended Shell Ultra Helix, which I believe is fully synthetic?
>> Edited by chillidog on Monday 7th February 17:59
When I do an oil change, I crank the engine without spark plugs untill the pressure of the oil raises. Same principle.
I never, ever push the engine till it is warmed up.
BMW do this on one of there rep-mobile jobbies, the rev counter changes colour in line with the engine temp. When all is good, you can then welly it.
So, Dan, I would say, don't blip till warm.
IMHO of course.
I never, ever push the engine till it is warmed up.
BMW do this on one of there rep-mobile jobbies, the rev counter changes colour in line with the engine temp. When all is good, you can then welly it.
So, Dan, I would say, don't blip till warm.
IMHO of course.
V6GTO said:
FLAMER KIT FOR MR SILVERSIX
Noooooooooo
Simply like Grp B cars etc, and had an ex-Msport Escort Cossie with ALS etc. Very good for getting kicked off trackdays with (although you could turn it off going past the noise tester).... Also useful for scaring other drivers although one would never use anti-lag, or cut slicks, or de-cat on the public highway would one.
interestingly my Evo 6 threw big flames, on the overun, but only after I replaced the exhaust and cat, as apparently they act as a flame arrester. Anyway drifting off topic.
chillidog said:
[quote=caccobra]I would think that once the engine is broken in and you have switched to Mobil 1 Synthetic, the initial cold-start wear issue is significantly reduced by the better cling factor of the synthetic oil?
Is this better than the Noble recommended Shell Ultra Helix, which I believe is fully synthetic?
Don't know anything about the Shell synthetic. Mobil 1 is the synthetic oil of choice for most major manufacturers here in the States. All Corvettes come with it right from the factory. It is also recommended by 1g Racing (after the engine is broken in, not before). A friend who is involved in lubricants testing at General Motors Tech Center swears by it, so that's a good enough endorsement for me. My point was, a good synthetic oil protects the bearings and moving parts better than regular oil, so the cold-start wear is almost a non-issue with it.
paulcundy said:
"Blip" start, loadsawelly, power rises rapidly, say 200+ bhp, and on the same bearings that just have that light covering of overnight drained away oil.
Paul, surely you need a "load" in order to create brake horse power??? If the only load is the flywheel and clutch, then there shouldn't be that much power placed on the bearings....
I think
J
caccobra said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
But (warning, totally off-the-top-of-my-head theory coming) as the oil pump is totally dependant on engine revs, and we assume that oil will arrive in 2000 revolutions time, it makes little difference.
Or, I'm talking arse.
So how much wear on your bearings do you want? An idle start up , low revs , low power, little stress on the bearings.
"Blip" start, loadsawelly, power rises rapidly, say 200+ bhp, and on the same bearings that just have that light covering of overnight drained away oil. Yes its true that the oil arrives after the same 2000 revs (or whatever number it is) but its the load the bearings are subject to whilst waiting for the oil to arrive that counts?
My grandpa used to turn his engines over by hand to get the oil system charged before he started them.
Regards
Paul C
I would think that once the engine is broken in and you have switched to Mobil 1 Synthetic, the initial cold-start wear issue is significantly reduced by the better cling factor of the synthetic oil?
Can't go along with this. In the very short while it takes the oil pump to develop pressure and deliver to the bearings, you are relying on a smear of oil to lubricate the gap between shells and journals. Put any load on them during that time and you will get metal to metal contact and very advanced wear rates. High revs will give you enough load to cause that in my opinion so I don't do it. The bearing works by maintaining a very thin (thous) oil film permanently between the moving parts and it relies on oil pressure to do this. So every start costs you a little in engine wear, don't make it worse by revving the engine before oil pressure is established. After that, treat it gently until it's thoroughly warmed up and you'll get a long life. If you've not got an oil temperature gauge, then that's about 10 MINUTES after water temperature stabilises. Avoid higher than about 3,000 - 3,500rpm until then if you want your engine to last. That's what I do but we are all free to chose.
joust said:
"Blip" start, loadsawelly, power rises rapidly, say 200+ bhp, and on the same bearings that just have that light covering of overnight drained away oil.
If the only load is the flywheel and clutch, then there shouldn't be that much power placed on the bearings....
I think
J
Oh no you're not starting that HP vs Torque again!
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