Discussion
kiethton said:
because the fuel they burn is the near enough the unrefined refined grogs left after the refinery process to split diesel/petrol other hydrocarbons is complete (a little exaggeration), that and they aren't made to include proper land-spec DPF's etc. to meet any emission restriction.
I thought that they did have to meet emissions regulations, not as strict as passenger cars, maybe Tier 2 and that some jurisdictions like Japan won't let them burn that heavy oil in their waters, they have switch to diesel iirc. they have to switch to diesel in most territorial waters. you can't burn HFO on land in the US/EU unless you have special licensing to do so [e.g. you're an engine development company].
no idea about ships but our HFO generators are notably more 'smokey' when running up on diesel. switch over and the exhaust goes clear.
no idea about ships but our HFO generators are notably more 'smokey' when running up on diesel. switch over and the exhaust goes clear.
t that's left over' from refining. one grade below pitch/tar. its heated/centrifugally filtered before use.i wouldn't say smokey, its a euro emissions compliant engine in its regular guise. the change is noticeable though, perhaps due to the engine being tuned for HFO not diesel. starts and shuts down on diesel so the fuel rail/pump/lines are flushed through but timing, injectors and a few other things are different from if you wanted to run on diesel full time. i imagine its the same for ships, just on a grander scale.
eta: no, its not nearly a better fuel. its used because its cheap. horrible stuff to work with and the fact its banned for use in mainland US/EU may give some idea of the emissions content.
you can use pitch for fuel. i have seen a turbine running on the stuff. injection temp was circa 400degC IIRC.
eta: no, its not nearly a better fuel. its used because its cheap. horrible stuff to work with and the fact its banned for use in mainland US/EU may give some idea of the emissions content.
you can use pitch for fuel. i have seen a turbine running on the stuff. injection temp was circa 400degC IIRC.
Edited by shirt on Friday 25th September 22:58
Is this the same as FFO or Furnace Fuel Oil that Royal Navy ships ran on years and years ago?
British warships one run in Dieso which I assume is Marine Gas Oil, a type of diesel?
I live by the coast by the Tyne and rarely see smokey ships be they the numerous car carriers or other Garbo and passenger ships.
The old Invincible Class carriers with their 4 Olympus gas turbines could make smoke. Smelt great too.
British warships one run in Dieso which I assume is Marine Gas Oil, a type of diesel?
I live by the coast by the Tyne and rarely see smokey ships be they the numerous car carriers or other Garbo and passenger ships.
The old Invincible Class carriers with their 4 Olympus gas turbines could make smoke. Smelt great too.
kiethton said:
because the fuel they burn is the near enough the unrefined refined grogs left after the refinery process to split diesel/petrol other hydrocarbons is complete (a little exaggeration), that and they aren't made to include proper land-spec DPF's etc. to meet any emission restriction.
Wrong.When they are a few hours away from harbour, they ofton change from heavy to light.
Light fuel, as in diesel, as it is more responsive, and reliable, when changing from ahead to astern.
The engine will run in reverse, as. it will forward.
Just depends which way we set the start air distibruter.
uk_vette said:
Wrong.
When they are a few hours away from harbour, they ofton change from heavy to light.
Light fuel, as in diesel, as it is more responsive, and reliable, when changing from ahead to astern.
The engine will run in reverse, as. it will forward.
Just depends which way we set the start air distibruter.
They change from HFO to MGO due to the regulations. Shipping companies would stay on HFO all the time if they could (due to cost). Marine engines are perfectly reliable on HFO.When they are a few hours away from harbour, they ofton change from heavy to light.
Light fuel, as in diesel, as it is more responsive, and reliable, when changing from ahead to astern.
The engine will run in reverse, as. it will forward.
Just depends which way we set the start air distibruter.
MartG said:
HFO is only really useable when you have a steadyish fuel flow - the stop/start type of scenario when maneuvering into port could allow the HFO to cool in the fuel pipes to the engine and become too viscous to flow properly
Engines I have worked with have trace heating and return fuel lines allowing fuel to flow back to the day tanks which do not allow fuel to cool or stop flowing. The engines even have fuel flowing through them even when at standstill.Neilstrom said:
uk_vette said:
Wrong.
When they are a few hours away from harbour, they ofton change from heavy to light.
Light fuel, as in diesel, as it is more responsive, and reliable, when changing from ahead to astern.
The engine will run in reverse, as. it will forward.
Just depends which way we set the start air distibruter.
They change from HFO to MGO due to the regulations. Shipping companies would stay on HFO all the time if they could (due to cost). Marine engines are perfectly reliable on HFO.When they are a few hours away from harbour, they ofton change from heavy to light.
Light fuel, as in diesel, as it is more responsive, and reliable, when changing from ahead to astern.
The engine will run in reverse, as. it will forward.
Just depends which way we set the start air distibruter.
Sulzers, B&W, and the old Doxfords, all were taken off HFO for manouvering.
Could not risk any false starts on HFO,
To risky to run the air receivers too low for a kick, even with the compressors running.
uk_vette said:
Not true,
Sulzers, B&W, and the old Doxfords, all were taken off HFO for manouvering.
Could not risk any false starts on HFO,
To risky to run the air receivers too low for a kick, even with the compressors running.
For the more modern 2 stroke engines, such as B&W MAN and Wartsila, this is true.Sulzers, B&W, and the old Doxfords, all were taken off HFO for manouvering.
Could not risk any false starts on HFO,
To risky to run the air receivers too low for a kick, even with the compressors running.
Neilstrom said:
uk_vette said:
Not true,
Sulzers, B&W, and the old Doxfords, all were taken off HFO for manouvering.
Could not risk any false starts on HFO,
To risky to run the air receivers too low for a kick, even with the compressors running.
For the more modern 2 stroke engines, such as B&W MAN and Wartsila, this is true.Sulzers, B&W, and the old Doxfords, all were taken off HFO for manouvering.
Could not risk any false starts on HFO,
To risky to run the air receivers too low for a kick, even with the compressors running.
In fact my current ship runs to the US East Coast where there has been an ECA (emission control area) in force since the beginning of the year, so we now have to burn MGO whilst less that 250 nm from land and we are getting much more trouble due to these requirements than if we were using HFO all the time. The majority of the large slow-speed diesels around at the moment are optimized to burn HFO and experience a lot more trouble when running on diesel, as well as higher consumption (HFO has a higher calorific value than diesel so we use about 10% more fuel whilst on diesel).
addams said:
Have to disagree here - I have been working on large container ships for the past 17 years, with both MAN B&W and Sulzers and we never switch from HFO to MGO (diesel) unless we are forced to by local regulations. The engines start perfectly well on HFO - I have only ever experienced one failure to start due to cold fuel, and that was the Chief Engineers fault for forgetting to switch off some of the engine room vents whilst in port!
This is my experience too; on vessels with MAN B&W the only reason we went over to MGO was entering low sulphur zones, and the chief was for ever fretting about burning all the hugely expensive MGO. Both ships were equipped to burn HFO even at manoeuvring or alongside just on generators, all fuel lines trace heated(finding and fixing steam leaks in which was my least favourite job after cleaning the OWS). I don't remember any problems caused by the switchover either way, but I was only a cadet at the time.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff