Profession or job?
Discussion
Having a discussion with friends last night and the question arose of what constitutes a profession. Obviously many traditional professions qualify on the nod, but which (if any) of these occupations is a 'profession' :
- Estate agent
- Travel agent
- Mortgage advisor
- Recruitment consultant
- Media consultant
- Event organiser
- Publicist
- Advertising exec
- Personal trainer
I tend to use the regulated position as a mental marker - i.e. if you have to be tested and accepted by either a professional body or the Government to be able to practice, then it's a profession.
Which means, oddly enough, that most of those fail, with the possible exception of mortgage advisor, though I would be tempted to lump them as Baby IFAs.
Which means, oddly enough, that most of those fail, with the possible exception of mortgage advisor, though I would be tempted to lump them as Baby IFAs.
I'd say most of those are "jobs" - on the basis I could probably do most of them with a couple of weeks training having never done any of them before. A profession to me is something that needs more investment in time before I could do it - e.g. a teacher and is also something you do because you really want to do it, rather than you need something to pay the bills.
Captain Benzo said:
My view is simply the difference between 'do' and 'are'
people 'do' a job
people 'are' a professional.
That's sort of how I view it, too. If you're an engineer but currently flipping burgers because it beats the dole, you're still an engineer. people 'do' a job
people 'are' a professional.
I think there's some crossover too. You could shove me and a gourmet chef in the kitchen of a local pub and it'd be a job for me but a profession for him despite the work being identical.
Edited by glazbagun on Thursday 8th October 11:32
glazbagun said:
Captain Benzo said:
My view is simply the difference between 'do' and 'are'
people 'do' a job
people 'are' a professional.
That's sort of how I view it, too. If you're an engineer but currently flipping burgers because it beats the dole, your still an engineer. people 'do' a job
people 'are' a professional.
I think there's some crossover too. You could shove me and a gourmet chef in the kitchen of a local pub but it'd be a job for me but a profession for him despite the work being identical.
Vizsla said:
Having a discussion with friends last night and the question arose of what constitutes a profession. Obviously many traditional professions qualify on the nod, but which (if any) of these occupations is a 'profession' :
These are all jobs as they don't involve prolonged training and a formal qualification. - Estate agent
- Travel agent
- Mortgage advisor
- Recruitment consultant
- Media consultant
- Event organiser
- Publicist
- Advertising exec
- Personal trainer
My criteria:
1) Does the position require accredited qualifications?
2) Does the position require/promote professional certification?
If yes to both, obvious profession but interestingly #2 only carries for a few professions. Engineers don't need #2 - many many people never get Chartered/Incorporated.
1) Does the position require accredited qualifications?
2) Does the position require/promote professional certification?
If yes to both, obvious profession but interestingly #2 only carries for a few professions. Engineers don't need #2 - many many people never get Chartered/Incorporated.
el stovey said:
Vizsla said:
Having a discussion with friends last night and the question arose of what constitutes a profession. Obviously many traditional professions qualify on the nod, but which (if any) of these occupations is a 'profession' :
These are all jobs as they don't involve prolonged training and a formal qualification. - Estate agent
- Travel agent
- Mortgage advisor
- Recruitment consultant
- Media consultant
- Event organiser
- Publicist
- Advertising exec
- Personal trainer
the dictionary definition of "the professions" is:
"jobs that need special training and skill, such as being a doctor or lawyer, but not work in business
or industry"
A Profession is defined as:
" any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education"
Nowadays you would probably define it more as something that needs professional qualifications to act in that role. So for example i am allowed to act as an accountant because i am professionally qualified- i can be barred from working in that role if my qualifications aren't valid.
None of the jobs you mention above have prolonged study leading to professional qualifications which are controlled by a set of standards. Estate agents often fall down on the latter!
Having said all that you can act "professionally" in any job- that is to say you can act in a manner consistent with someone who is a professional.
"jobs that need special training and skill, such as being a doctor or lawyer, but not work in business
or industry"
A Profession is defined as:
" any type of work that needs special training or a particular skill, often one that is respected because it involves a high level of education"
Nowadays you would probably define it more as something that needs professional qualifications to act in that role. So for example i am allowed to act as an accountant because i am professionally qualified- i can be barred from working in that role if my qualifications aren't valid.
None of the jobs you mention above have prolonged study leading to professional qualifications which are controlled by a set of standards. Estate agents often fall down on the latter!
Having said all that you can act "professionally" in any job- that is to say you can act in a manner consistent with someone who is a professional.
Vizsla said:
el stovey said:
Vizsla said:
Having a discussion with friends last night and the question arose of what constitutes a profession. Obviously many traditional professions qualify on the nod, but which (if any) of these occupations is a 'profession' :
These are all jobs as they don't involve prolonged training and a formal qualification. - Estate agent
- Travel agent
- Mortgage advisor
- Recruitment consultant
- Media consultant
- Event organiser
- Publicist
- Advertising exec
- Personal trainer
The passport office list of who can countersign a passport includes professionals and people of good standing in the community. Estate agents don't make that list either
"Occupations of those who are eligible to countersign:
Countersignatories must work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession or be 'a person of good standing in their community', eg:
• Accountant
• Airline pilot
• Articled clerk of a limited company
• Assurance agent of recognised company
• Bank/building society official
• Barrister
• Chairman/director of limited company
• Chiropodist
• Commissioner of oaths
• Councillor, eg local or county
• Civil servant (permanent)
• Dentist
• Director/manager/personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
• Engineer - with professional qualifications
• Financial services intermediary, eg a stockbroker or insurance broker
• Fire service official
• Funeral director
• Insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
• Journalist
• Justice of the Peace
• Legal secretary - fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs
• Licensee of public house
• Local government officer
• Manager/personnel officer of a limited company
• Member, associate or fellow of a professional body
• Member of Parliament
• Merchant Navy officer
• Minister of a recognised religion - including Christian Science
• Nurse - RGN or RMN
• Officer of the armed services
• Optician
• Paralegal - certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals
• Person with honours, eg an OBE or MBE
• Pharmacist
• Photographer - professional
• Police officer
• Post Office official
• President/secretary of a recognised organisation
• Salvation Army officer
• Social worker
• Solicitor
• • surveyor
• Teacher, lecturer
• Trade union officer
• Travel agent - qualified
• Valuer or auctioneer - fellows and associate members of the incorporated society
• Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers
• Please note: Individuals who work for Her Majesty's Passport Office cannot be counter signatories. "
This should stir things up!
What about trades like electricians and gas installers? I'm a plumber/gas fitter and I have to renew my gas qualification every 5 years otherwise I can't legally work on gas.
Job, profession or just trade? Either way I couldn't care less, as I hate it anyway!
What about trades like electricians and gas installers? I'm a plumber/gas fitter and I have to renew my gas qualification every 5 years otherwise I can't legally work on gas.
Job, profession or just trade? Either way I couldn't care less, as I hate it anyway!
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