Disposable Trackcar or Long Term Project?

[Jim1985]

After selling my Subaru Impreza STI and getting a 335d for daily duties, I’m left thinking that for track use I’d be best getting another car. Also, when taking your pride and joy on track, you tend to hold back a little bit.
This started me thinking that it might be an idea to get a second car for track duties. If I got a cheap enough one, then I wouldn’t need to get track insurance, knocking a fair chunk off the cost of Trackdays, meaning more track days!

Naturally I thought “I can finally get an E36” as I’ve been craving one for quite a while now. A nice E36 coupe, M3 wheels, buckets, semi stripped, M3 diff etc. Would make a nice track car.
However the budget I’m working with is sub £1000. Which has made me lean towards buying something disposable. I’ve seen a few 106 GTIs pop up, some E36 318 compacts (underpowered?) and also 1.7 Ford Pumas.

Now the thing is, I have a ‘pride & joy’ car, to love and polish and take photos off etc. The 335d is lowered on Eibach springs, wide 18s, black kidney grills, facelift bootlid & rear lights etc, and if I got an E36 coupe, I know for a fact I wouldn’t be able to stop modifying it. I’d end up spending quite a lot of money on posh wheels, GT splitter, GT rear wing etc. Which detracts from the original point of “a track car that wouldn’t be too hard on the heart/wallet if I was to end up in a wall/upside down/on fire”.

Which then points me towards the Ford Puma. Plenty available for way less than £1000. I’ve heard they handle well. Presumably cheap parts as they’re Fiesta/Escort based aren’t they? Also, I wouldn’t be tempted to get some tasty wheels or posh seats for scene points or anything.

Help!

Am I making the right decision?

[Crowds]

Pumas are a fiesta under with and rust like hell! Go for a 106 gti/Saxo vts imo

[Wh00sher]

Jim1985 said:

Which detracts from the original point of “a track car that wouldn’t be too hard on the heart/wallet if I was to end up in a wall/upside down/on fire”.

Am I making the right decision?

If you go into it with the view of "well, I don`t need to hold back anymore and if I crash, so what" then IMO, NO it`s not the right decision. We had that at Cadwell the other month and rather than ending in a wall/upside down/on fire, he ran into the side of another totally innocent driver in an Evora which cost the poor Evora driver thousands. The Rover drivers attitude was "well, it`s only a cheap trackcar, these things happen".


If you are doing it so that IF you HAPPENED to have an accident, it wouldn`t be your P&J then yeah, good idea.


I obviously hope you mean the latter and it`s just a couple of phrases I`m taking out of context


However, be warned, I`d be amazed if you buy a cheap car and don`t end up `tinkering` to make it better.

[E-bmw]

Whatever you buy you will never stop modifying it, so buy what you know & love is what I did, e36 all day long.

Every bolt comes off in one piece & goes back on without founding off or breaking a knuckle.

But go for the 325, best/cheapest compromise.

[Rob197]

Clio 172/182, cheap and look great fun. They can get away from my 197 with ease die to light weight

[Jim1985]

Wh00sher said:

Jim1985 said:

Which detracts from the original point of “a track car that wouldn’t be too hard on the heart/wallet if I was to end up in a wall/upside down/on fire”.

Am I making the right decision?

If you go into it with the view of "well, I don`t need to hold back anymore and if I crash, so what" then IMO, NO it`s not the right decision. We had that at Cadwell the other month and rather than ending in a wall/upside down/on fire, he ran into the side of another totally innocent driver in an Evora which cost the poor Evora driver thousands. The Rover drivers attitude was "well, it`s only a cheap trackcar, these things happen".


If you are doing it so that IF you HAPPENED to have an accident, it wouldn`t be your P&J then yeah, good idea.


I obviously hope you mean the latter and it`s just a couple of phrases I`m taking out of context


However, be warned, I`d be amazed if you buy a cheap car and don`t end up `tinkering` to make it better.

I'm 100% not a flat out bellend. I think that's deplorable behaviour from the Rover driver. I feel I need to state how gingerly I drive on track. I hated having anyone around me in case they threw debris up onto my car. Whenever anyone came close I let them pass, regardless of the vehicle, my speed etc. also if I came up behind anyone I slowed right down to get my own little space again. Passing them with power, and then holding them up in the corners with inexperience was something I was really worried about doing. It was more the fact that I was holding back from driving "properly" because I was worried about my paint, tyres, brakes etc, bearing in mind the vehicle needed to get me to work the next day, on holiday the week after etc. I was always scared to get anywhere near the limit in case of dropping a wheel onto the grass, sliding, and rolling etc.
Obviously you're not supposed to go around every corner on the limit, but you know what I mean.

Also, yes, I would tinker no matter what. But a £300 with £700 suspension will handle better than a £700 car with £300 suspension.

I think Ive decided to go for a Puma, mainly for the fact I'd have to take my woodwork bench down in my garage to fit an e36 in! Puma means I can still make knife handles!

[Steve H]

The Puma is a good choice but 106 is a better car out of the box or modded IMO.

[PTF]

2 yrs ago i picked up a mk1 mx5 with Tr Lane roll bar and gaz gold adjustable suspension all for £1k.

Ideal for your needs. It wasn't the prettiest car or the fastest in a straight line, but utterly reliable and fun in the twisties. Plus if it got smashed up the tuning parts would still be worth something

[E-bmw]

Be vary aware of the dreaded tin-worm on Pumas, they are renowned for it.

[C70R]

Think cheap, simple and light. A popular FWD hatch sounds like the right kind of direction, because mods and cheap, easy and plentiful.

Don't get too preoccupied by 10-20bhp here and there, particularly not if it means you can get into something at a slightly lower entry point (e.g. Saxo VTR instead of VTS). This may end up leaving you a bit of free cash to put into the important bits to maximise enjoyment (half-decent tyres, refreshed brakes, a good service).

Something unloved like the 206 GTi would be a great call, with plenty in the £6-800 range. Start with lightness (i.e. rip everything unneeded out), and then some basic upgrade/maintenance work will see you at your budget.

[T0MMY]

C70R said:

Think cheap, simple and light.

Definitely. I'd go with an MX5 or MK3 MR2 though personally as I think they offer a bit more than the FWD options.

Incidentally I had an Impreza (JDM WRX) alongside a MK1 MX5 for a while and I actually found the latter much more fun to drive anyway.

[spurs coupe]

Just this evening I've ordered a new (2nd hand) engine for my 172.

Been track daying for about 4 years now.

Stared with a saxo VTR as I couldn't bear to crash my BMW Z3 Coupe.

Then 'traded' in for the clio 172.

Sadly now, as I've been careless enough to multiple frequently over the last few years, I've sold the coupe and am having to decide what to do with the clio, as my family is taking up the bulk of my wallet and even the daily drive as to be more 'sensible'.

I'd like to think (from experience on the track (mainly Lydden Hill) that my Clio on slicks (or decent semi-slicks) will take most cars on. I've overtaken M3s 350Zs, tarted up Imprezas etc. (by no means am I suggesting that I'm a racing God!).

But the clio is harsh on the wallet when it is travelling fast, now done 1 x engine, 1 x gearbox, 3 x high quality CL or Brembo brakes, lots of tyres etc etc.

The saxo was genuinely unbreakable, amazingly fast for the money.

The clio is surprisingly fast and easy to drive, but comes with a cost when being driven HARD.

If I had to trade 'up' I don't think I could find anything for less than £6k that would beat a £1k Clio with £1k worth of basic mods (tyres & brakes)



These are recommended, but couldn't catch the clio!


Clio tyre shreding

[spurs coupe]

I'd consider it disposable, to an extent, no intention of smashing into something (cheap or expensive) but certainly a cheap, entry level track car.

[T0MMY]

spurs coupe said:

If I had to trade 'up' I don't think I could find anything for less than £6k that would beat a £1k Clio with £1k worth of basic mods (tyres & brakes)

£6k will get you a kitcar that would most definitely beat a Clio, and indeed most other road cars on trackdays. Probably be cheaper to run too. Half that would see you in a very nicely prepped MX5 with forced induction that would also be quicker. Lots of options out there (not that a Clio is a bad option though).

Edited by T0MMY on Monday 19th October 16:57

[Humour]

I might be a tad late pitching in, but from what you said in your thread OP, the logical choice for you is an MX-5.

The reasons for suggesting this vehicle above others are as follows:

1. Cheap entry level but with relatively good performance (power to weight, when stripped).
2. Many about and some track prepped examples come up when looking in the right places, so 50% or more already done for you.
3. Engineering wise solid, plus the tins seems to last quote well for the age.
4. You drive a RWD as a daily, so using a RWD on track will help you immensely to understand the dynamics of a RWD setup, should you ever need it on the road, or at the very least you can relate jumping from one to the other with less change of dynamics required to acclimatise.
5. If further down the line you decide that budget is available, many options are available for going faster in an MX-5.
6. There is a good reason why you see an MX-5 in one shape or another on "every" track day. Light weight = relatively good power to weight, light on the cost of consumables, thus more smiles per mile and more time on track. Colin Chapman's ideology is well proven, so on a limited budget this is the logical choice.
7. Should fit in your garage without loosing your workbench.
8. Fun factor in a RWD vs. a FWD is a no contest imo, even if you are not going all that fast. After all we do it to put a grin on our face from time to time.

Good luck.

Humour

[Henry Fiddleton]

spurs coupe said:

I'd consider it disposable, to an extent, no intention of smashing into something (cheap or expensive) but certainly a cheap, entry level track car.

Great car, but you are putting a lot of trust in that rear strut bar - unless it is a harness bar?

[Humour]

Henry Fiddleton said:

spurs coupe said:

I'd consider it disposable, to an extent, no intention of smashing into something (cheap or expensive) but certainly a cheap, entry level track car.

Great car, but you are putting a lot of trust in that rear strut bar - unless it is a harness bar?

It certainly doesn't look it from the pics. Pretty high risk of failure imo.

I wouldn't want to be in that car in a frontal accident, that's for sure.

Humour