Chris Harris: 991GT3RS v Aston GT12 v Mclaren 650s spider...
Discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58j0Mmj41m0
If anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
If anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
mattf93 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58j0Mmj41m0
If anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
Ummm, let me think about that for 1 sec - ok get the 991 GT3 RS for £150k and sell it immediately for £250k and buy the real deal McLaren 650S spiderIf anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
Everyones a winner
RamboLambo said:
mattf93 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58j0Mmj41m0
If anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
Ummm, let me think about that for 1 sec - ok get the 991 GT3 RS for £150k and sell it immediately for £250k and buy the real deal McLaren 650S spiderIf anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
Everyones a winner
RamboLambo said:
mattf93 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58j0Mmj41m0
If anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
Ummm, let me think about that for 1 sec - ok get the 991 GT3 RS for £150k and sell it immediately for £250k and buy the real deal McLaren 650S spiderIf anyone hasn't already seen it, question is though if you had the money for all 3 (and you could again a build slot for any of the 3) which one would you pick and why?
Chris isn't ever overly clear which wins, but he certainly loves that 650s spider...
Everyones a winner
Therefore with cost having no bearing on the relative assessment, which is the best car?
A very interesting one. I understand his points about people who complain that a car is 'too good', however I think he is missing something.
With a steak, to use one of his examples, there is no limit to how good the taste can be. If it tastes 10/10 then that's great and you can enjoy it 100% anytime you are in the mood for steak. However, with performance cars there are artificial limits to how much you can 'enjoy' the performance on the road - i.e. speed limits, congestion, etc. So the 'too good' point becomes valid if you are buying a car 99%+ of the time for road use and can only utilise 10%-20% of it's capability and that then becomes frustrating. It becomes a car which performs too highly for the general way in which the car is being used.
The question really is whether the car is still enjoyable to drive at regular road speeds given the regular limits on the road - not the car's limits, but those imposed on it by government or other road users - or if it's only truly enjoyable to drive on track where you can actually utilise much more of it's potential. That's fine if you are a regular at the track, but if you only go once every year or two - or maybe never at all - if it isn't exciting with regular road driving, what's the point?
I would love to find a sports car or super car which is truly enjoyable to drive around regular roads at regular speeds - even enjoyable if there is a bit of regular traffic on the road. That is why I think these noisy, stiff, etc cars have an edge, because it's an exciting experience to go out in them even if you never get to do more than 60mph. I just wonder if maybe Harris has different perceptions to the average buyer because he can go and hit a track many times a year and get his fix of high speed excitement, which most of us don't really have the luxury to do either because of work hours, living far from tracks, cost, etc. Even the test roads of quality, EU subsidised, Welsh tarmac would be a dream for many of us living in densely populated areas across the South to have on our doorsteps.
With a steak, to use one of his examples, there is no limit to how good the taste can be. If it tastes 10/10 then that's great and you can enjoy it 100% anytime you are in the mood for steak. However, with performance cars there are artificial limits to how much you can 'enjoy' the performance on the road - i.e. speed limits, congestion, etc. So the 'too good' point becomes valid if you are buying a car 99%+ of the time for road use and can only utilise 10%-20% of it's capability and that then becomes frustrating. It becomes a car which performs too highly for the general way in which the car is being used.
The question really is whether the car is still enjoyable to drive at regular road speeds given the regular limits on the road - not the car's limits, but those imposed on it by government or other road users - or if it's only truly enjoyable to drive on track where you can actually utilise much more of it's potential. That's fine if you are a regular at the track, but if you only go once every year or two - or maybe never at all - if it isn't exciting with regular road driving, what's the point?
I would love to find a sports car or super car which is truly enjoyable to drive around regular roads at regular speeds - even enjoyable if there is a bit of regular traffic on the road. That is why I think these noisy, stiff, etc cars have an edge, because it's an exciting experience to go out in them even if you never get to do more than 60mph. I just wonder if maybe Harris has different perceptions to the average buyer because he can go and hit a track many times a year and get his fix of high speed excitement, which most of us don't really have the luxury to do either because of work hours, living far from tracks, cost, etc. Even the test roads of quality, EU subsidised, Welsh tarmac would be a dream for many of us living in densely populated areas across the South to have on our doorsteps.
sealtt said:
I would love to find a sports car or super car which is truly enjoyable to drive around regular roads at regular speeds - even enjoyable if there is a bit of regular traffic on the road. That is why I think these noisy, stiff, etc cars have an edge, because it's an exciting experience to go out in them even if you never get to do more than 60mph. I just wonder if maybe Harris has different perceptions to the average buyer because he can go and hit a track many times a year and get his fix of high speed excitement, which most of us don't really have the luxury to do either because of work hours, living far from tracks, cost, etc. Even the test roads of quality, EU subsidised, Welsh tarmac would be a dream for many of us living in densely populated areas across the South to have on our doorsteps.
Isn't that even more the case then that one might want a car that is civilized and comfortable at the mundane stuff being stuck in the southeast and yet can turn into a bit of a monster when required by flipping a few switches when on track or on an empty country road? There are more exciting cars on track and better cars for eating up the miles but very very few cars that can combine the ability of the Mclaren on track with it's ability to then carry you back from said track perfectly comfortably. as an all round sportscar the Mclaren is a very hard package to beat even today i reckon...isaldiri said:
Isn't that even more the case then that one might want a car that is civilized and comfortable at the mundane stuff being stuck in the southeast and yet can turn into a bit of a monster when required by flipping a few switches when on track or on an empty country road? There are more exciting cars on track and better cars for eating up the miles but very very few cars that can combine the ability of the Mclaren on track with it's ability to then carry you back from said track perfectly comfortably. as an all round sportscar the Mclaren is a very hard package to beat even today i reckon...
I personally think Mclaren are very much overlooked by some (particularly ferrari guys) that all seem to say they love how it makes them feel. I personally would love a mclaren 650/675lt spider, the fact there is no compromise and only a negligible amount of added weight is just great from me!Chris Harris living with a 12c video was excellent in this respect!
isaldiri said:
Isn't that even more the case then that one might want a car that is civilized and comfortable at the mundane stuff being stuck in the southeast and yet can turn into a bit of a monster when required by flipping a few switches when on track or on an empty country road? There are more exciting cars on track and better cars for eating up the miles but very very few cars that can combine the ability of the Mclaren on track with it's ability to then carry you back from said track perfectly comfortably. as an all round sportscar the Mclaren is a very hard package to beat even today i reckon...
If you are restricted to 1 supercar I think a 12C/650S is the best you can get. It might not be the best at some individual areas but its so accomplished at everything its the best overall by a country mile.The biggest problem you will have is finding something better to replace it with without seriously upping your budget.
Supercar bargain of the moment IMHO
I would probably still plump for the Aventador as my favourite track car, but as a sports car (as opposed to a GT) for the road, my 650S Spider is quite simply in-credible. Everything special in my garage is a keeper, but the 650 will probably be the last to go - provided I can still get in and out of course! The McLaren isn't as understated as an Aston or a Saville Row suit, but it is sufficiently less ostentatious than many Italians to be a possible contender for Q's next procurement for Mr Bond!
isaldiri said:
Isn't that even more the case then that one might want a car that is civilized and comfortable at the mundane stuff being stuck in the southeast and yet can turn into a bit of a monster when required by flipping a few switches when on track or on an empty country road? There are more exciting cars on track and better cars for eating up the miles but very very few cars that can combine the ability of the Mclaren on track with it's ability to then carry you back from said track perfectly comfortably. as an all round sportscar the Mclaren is a very hard package to beat even today i reckon...
Sure if you want a super car as a daily driver, that might make sense. But I would imagine most people don't want to drive a super car daily.More likely 95%+ of people buying these cars have them as second cars, with an S-Class / Range Rover / Bentley / whatever daily to do the mundane stuff in comfort. My point being, if I wanted to go out for a comfortable drive, I'd take my luxury car - as the super car is never going to be as good at the luxury stuff as a luxury car.
Then if I want to go out for a bit of fun - albeit at regular(ish) speeds on regular roads in regular traffic - I'd take my super car. So why would I want my super car to be less noisy, or less intense of an experience. Surely that would just be less exciting, arguably less fun than one of the more shouty & full on cars like the GT12, RS, 458 Speciale, etc?
sealtt said:
Sure if you want a super car as a daily driver, that might make sense. But I would imagine most people don't want to drive a super car daily.
More likely 95%+ of people buying these cars have them as second cars, with an S-Class / Range Rover / Bentley / whatever daily to do the mundane stuff in comfort. My point being, if I wanted to go out for a comfortable drive, I'd take my luxury car - as the super car is never going to be as good at the luxury stuff as a luxury car.
Then if I want to go out for a bit of fun - albeit at regular(ish) speeds on regular roads in regular traffic - I'd take my super car. So why would I want my super car to be less noisy, or less intense of an experience. Surely that would just be less exciting, arguably less fun than one of the more shouty & full on cars like the GT12, RS, 458 Speciale, etc?
Yes it does indeed depend on what one wants from a sports car. unfortunately i don't live around the eifel or even in close proximity to a racetrack/mid wales and getting to and back a decent stretch of tarmac inevitably involves a decent amount of travelling and traffic. I don't particularly need a car to feel exciting or intense stuck on the motorway/m25 or navigating through traffic. I certainly don't need a car to feel shouty/full on intense at 30mph on kings road as seems to be the priority for a lot of modern ferraris with the hyper quick steering and very sensitive throttle pedal giving exaggerated responses to small control inputs to make the driver feel the car is more 'alive'.....More likely 95%+ of people buying these cars have them as second cars, with an S-Class / Range Rover / Bentley / whatever daily to do the mundane stuff in comfort. My point being, if I wanted to go out for a comfortable drive, I'd take my luxury car - as the super car is never going to be as good at the luxury stuff as a luxury car.
Then if I want to go out for a bit of fun - albeit at regular(ish) speeds on regular roads in regular traffic - I'd take my super car. So why would I want my super car to be less noisy, or less intense of an experience. Surely that would just be less exciting, arguably less fun than one of the more shouty & full on cars like the GT12, RS, 458 Speciale, etc?
I think the fact is, you either live near a track / good roads OR you don't!
If you do, then great, head on out in whatever car you fancy and have a great time. If not, then you have to accept you may have a good 1-2 hour round trip of more mundane driving to get to a place where you ca have some fun - which I guess is where the McLaren comes into its own. Comfy and easy on the way there and lots of fun when you get there.
I must admit, sounds a pretty good way to do a track day!
If you do, then great, head on out in whatever car you fancy and have a great time. If not, then you have to accept you may have a good 1-2 hour round trip of more mundane driving to get to a place where you ca have some fun - which I guess is where the McLaren comes into its own. Comfy and easy on the way there and lots of fun when you get there.
I must admit, sounds a pretty good way to do a track day!
cayman-black said:
For me it would be The Aston in first place followed by the RS . Not keen on the Mac no matter how good it is.
I really don't know if it was my money which id prefer, but on noise alone the GT12 has the others licked! I think if I had plenty of money to spare (e.g. a garage of 15 cars or so then a GT3RS would be cool, but Id definitely put the GT12 above the porker... I think it becomes more difficult with the mclaren as I personally love the 650s spider, Ive seen in a town near me and even in static traffic they look and sound special. I think if I had more than one weekend car Id have the GT12 but if I only had the budget or space for one weekend car Id have the 650s as it covers so many more 'bases' than the aston.
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