Failure to give evidence to the identification of a driver
Discussion
vanish said:
We recently moved to Lancashire and have moved from rented property to a new house purchase after 6 months. Not knowing the area very well we were captured on 2 fixed cameras and 1 mobile unit . The speeds of 38, 38 and 39 in a 30 zone in a 3 week period all at different sites. The incidents took place over a 5 week period in February.
We updated our vehicle reg address and license details to the rented address about 6 weeks later these took a further 2 weeks to process. In this time we had all 3 notices served with a summons for failure to give evidence of a driver.
We never received the notices due to them being served to our midlands address so everything crossed over.
When they finally caught up after another address change and notification all three summons arrived. Myself and my partner are insured on the vehicle and I remember being flashed so my partner pleaded guilty and i asked her to nominate me as the driver of the car as the car is registered to her.
The court decision arrived today and she received 6 points and a £569 fine and costs. The other two notices have been returned not guilty prior to this decision as we genuinely cannot remember who was driving on the other two.
It's a shame that honesty and a genuine set of circumstance was not applied to this case as a reason for a lesser charge and fine so we feel very disgruntled about the whole procedure.
I sometimes speed as a decide the conditions are so I feel it safe but I hate people who say they didn't know the limit or didn't know how fast they were going.
We have full legal representation on the two outstanding cases I will post the outcome of those when the hearings take place which we will be attending.
The solicitors we are using have received details of a recent case which was held up in a court of law by the judge presiding over the case when I receive more info on that piece of case law I will publish it for other members to view.
Sorry in summary you are both habitual speeders and both regular travel art 38 plus in 30 so you don’t know who was driving, not knowing the area or the highway code as 30s are normally pretty clear. I assume this as I know out of myself and my mrs jbsportstech if a speeding ticket comes its more likely min than hers as she does less miles than me and does not tend to speed.We updated our vehicle reg address and license details to the rented address about 6 weeks later these took a further 2 weeks to process. In this time we had all 3 notices served with a summons for failure to give evidence of a driver.
We never received the notices due to them being served to our midlands address so everything crossed over.
When they finally caught up after another address change and notification all three summons arrived. Myself and my partner are insured on the vehicle and I remember being flashed so my partner pleaded guilty and i asked her to nominate me as the driver of the car as the car is registered to her.
The court decision arrived today and she received 6 points and a £569 fine and costs. The other two notices have been returned not guilty prior to this decision as we genuinely cannot remember who was driving on the other two.
It's a shame that honesty and a genuine set of circumstance was not applied to this case as a reason for a lesser charge and fine so we feel very disgruntled about the whole procedure.
I sometimes speed as a decide the conditions are so I feel it safe but I hate people who say they didn't know the limit or didn't know how fast they were going.
We have full legal representation on the two outstanding cases I will post the outcome of those when the hearings take place which we will be attending.
The solicitors we are using have received details of a recent case which was held up in a court of law by the judge presiding over the case when I receive more info on that piece of case law I will publish it for other members to view.
You both moved houses and took a while to update the dvla and have now been stung as the NIPs (do you not use mail redirection I always do for 6 months after moving it might costs £100 but it’s cheaper than £559 plus and fines and 2nr further fines and points yet to be determined)
What’s your defence under all this it’s not your fault you moved and didn’t bother with redirection so can’t be held accountable as the letters missed your letter box?
Unfortunately ignorance is no defence in my experience. You are legally obligated to provide details of the driver so if you don’t keep records and still swap cars your best off picking one to take the rap.
vanish said:
It's a shame that honesty and a genuine set of circumstance was not applied to this case
Problem is, there was no "genuine set of circumstances".You failed to keep your basic personal admin up-to-date, and you failed to take basic steps to ensure all your correspondence caught up with you. It is entirely your fault that you didn't receive the NIPs in time to deal with them. <shrug>
Oh, and implying that it's not really your fault you got nicked for speeding repeatedly, because you didn't know the area? Lame. Very lame.
Grow up and take responsibility for your own cock-ups.
If I read what you wrote right, you committed 3 offences between you. You got pretty standard rap for the section 172 offence and got off the other two by using the same argument. I'd say you had a complete result. You could have ended up with 3 S172 (6 points each) there.
Not sure what you have to complain about.
cashmax said:
If I read what you wrote right, you committed 3 offences between you. You got pretty standard rap for the section 172 offence and got off the other two by using the same argument. I'd say you had a complete result. You could have ended up with 3 S172 (6 points each) there.
Not sure what you have to complain about.
If I read what he wrote right, the second and third offences are yet to be decided.. So there could well still be more points a coming.Not sure what you have to complain about.
The first was admitted to, 2 and 3 they "can't remember who was driving", so haven't admitted to those, and have a hearing date still to come.
agtlaw said:
Clutching at straws.
if I read it correctly aside from the speeding and assuming Lancashire they have no lamp posts and all the 30 signs are upside in and KPH. Or its like a foreign country from were they were living, god knows were that was?!?The OPs argument for not having responded to the NIPs is they didn't update the DVLA in a timely fashion or have mail redirection, their crystal ball had run out batteries, so they didn't know they had any NIPs to their registered vehicles so couldn't act on them?
That it?
andburg said:
LoonR1 said:
18 posts 136 months
Ridiculously contrived story
Half term
Amazing
PS I'm only here for the thread addressed to me really, so you ain't seen me..... Right.
Must be in the south, its not half term until next week up here!Ridiculously contrived story
Half term
Amazing
PS I'm only here for the thread addressed to me really, so you ain't seen me..... Right.
Very poorly written, but I gather his case is;
Moved house but didn't bother to tell the DVLA. RK didn't respond to NIP/s172 on three occasions. RK now has 3 postal requisitions for failing to respond. Pleaded guilty[?] to the first one - which resulted in 6 points and a fine/costs. RK is pleading not guilty to the other two offences because the solicitors said so.
Perhaps there's more to it?
Moved house but didn't bother to tell the DVLA. RK didn't respond to NIP/s172 on three occasions. RK now has 3 postal requisitions for failing to respond. Pleaded guilty[?] to the first one - which resulted in 6 points and a fine/costs. RK is pleading not guilty to the other two offences because the solicitors said so.
Perhaps there's more to it?
andburg said:
Must be in the south, its not half term until next week up here!
Both you and surveyor are over the hills from me and where the OP claims to now live, despite his website for his business still being based in Northants. Plenty of schools (although not all) on half term here
LoonR1 said:
andburg said:
Must be in the south, its not half term until next week up here!
Both you and surveyor are over the hills from me and where the OP claims to now live, despite his website for his business still being based in Northants. Plenty of schools (although not all) on half term here
So you're still awaiting the verdict on two speeding offences which you have simply returned as "Don't know who was driving"?
Well - you are certainly looking at a potential 6pts for failure to furnish on those two as well.
You'll get your day in court, but you'll have to convince a very sceptical bench that two adults were unable to work out who was driving the vehicle.
The net and court records are littered with far, far more people being found guilty of FtF at this stage (6pts plus fine) than there are people who were told "OK, off you go then".
Well - you are certainly looking at a potential 6pts for failure to furnish on those two as well.
You'll get your day in court, but you'll have to convince a very sceptical bench that two adults were unable to work out who was driving the vehicle.
The net and court records are littered with far, far more people being found guilty of FtF at this stage (6pts plus fine) than there are people who were told "OK, off you go then".
Stoofa said:
So you're still awaiting the verdict on two speeding offences which you have simply returned as "Don't know who was driving"?
Well - you are certainly looking at a potential 6pts for failure to furnish on those two as well.
You'll get your day in court, but you'll have to convince a very sceptical bench that two adults were unable to work out who was driving the vehicle.
The net and court records are littered with far, far more people being found guilty of FtF at this stage (6pts plus fine) than there are people who were told "OK, off you go then".
One assumes if you return using the shaggy defence 'it wasn't me'Well - you are certainly looking at a potential 6pts for failure to furnish on those two as well.
You'll get your day in court, but you'll have to convince a very sceptical bench that two adults were unable to work out who was driving the vehicle.
The net and court records are littered with far, far more people being found guilty of FtF at this stage (6pts plus fine) than there are people who were told "OK, off you go then".
They take the view your either incompetent, or arrogantly telling them you don't place importance on providing them the requested info.
Either way 6 pts ad large fine should make them think twice.
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vanish said:
Thanks for everyone's input. I would like to clarify a few points the first one being a mail redirect was set up on both moves.
We never started receiving anything for over a month and even then important docs never arrived until we moved again.
The second point is I posted this as a factual piece of info relating to my own experience and choices I made to share with other members.
The third point is we pleaded not guilty to the last two as they are 8 months old and we are not certain who was driving.It was a means to obtain further info so we could change a plea.
The next point no solicitor was involved in our decision.
The next point both licenses have been clean for over 8 years now so are we just lucky or habitual speeders?
The next point I am and would be
happy to admit to the incidents and may do so when photo evidence arrives.
I do thank everyone for their views however.
Poor grammer is due to being uneducated and not finishing school to look after my little sister while my dad drank.
I would reccommend you get a solicitor and get advice.We never started receiving anything for over a month and even then important docs never arrived until we moved again.
The second point is I posted this as a factual piece of info relating to my own experience and choices I made to share with other members.
The third point is we pleaded not guilty to the last two as they are 8 months old and we are not certain who was driving.It was a means to obtain further info so we could change a plea.
The next point no solicitor was involved in our decision.
The next point both licenses have been clean for over 8 years now so are we just lucky or habitual speeders?
The next point I am and would be
happy to admit to the incidents and may do so when photo evidence arrives.
I do thank everyone for their views however.
Poor grammer is due to being uneducated and not finishing school to look after my little sister while my dad drank.
The issue being if you can't prove you changed the details in a timely fashion and that the NIPs weren't served correctly you may well be on sticky wicket. I appreciate 8 months have passed but I would wager that's your fault not the dvla/court service.
vanish said:
Thanks for everyone's input. I would like to clarify a few points the first one being a mail redirect was set up on both moves.
We never started receiving anything for over a month and even then important docs never arrived until we moved again.
OK, as long as you can evidence that mail redirect was in place from when you moved from The Midlands to Lancashire, then you need to make a Statutory Declaration (within 21 days of learning of the conviction) to have the conviction for "fail to furnish" set aside and have the clock reset to summons stage. Current advice is to do this at a solicitor's rather than the local magistrates court.We never started receiving anything for over a month and even then important docs never arrived until we moved again.
Assuming that a summons arrives you will plead not guilty to "fail to furnish" and turn up on the day - there you will seek the prosecutor out early on and suggest to him that you will plead guilty (assuming it was you driving? I've lost the plot a little as to who did what in the white noise upthread, sorry) to speeding. He will usually accept this. You then appear before the magistrates and ask that, for administrative reasons out of your control (ie that the mail redirect you had set up didn't work), you be sentenced as per the usual penalty for this offence which would be a £100 fine & 3 points (this is covered in the sentencing guidelines) - you will probably be charged the "victim surcharge", though, as well as the "criminal court charge" if the offence occured after 13th April this year (from memory). So you'll be looking (worst case) at near £300 + 3 points.
Go to www.pepipoo.com and seek out their "Speeding and other criminal offences" forum, register on there and make your own thread. They don't tolerate the usual "who put 50p in the idiot?" posters we see upthread... They will advise you and talk you through the process & fine details. Assuming you can evidence the mail redirect from Day One of moving to Lancashire and also make the Statutory Declaration within 21 days of learning of the conviction, you can (relatively) save the day.
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