Regret selling Cayman for a 911
Discussion
Has anyone gone from a Cayman to a 911 and regretted it?
I really want a 997.2 but unfortunately I'm in the position where I need to sell my 987.2 in order to fund it.
I guess my main concern is the handling, I just absolutely love the mid engine layout. Of course people will tell me to drive a 997 and I have but a test drive is not sufficient to find out these things.
Anyway reasons for changing:
+997 looks awesome
+65bhp more
+rear engine is a new experience
+I appreciate the larger cabin
What I'm worried about:
-will be slower round corners by design
-may be slower round corners due to reduced confidence
-my cayman is a fantastic example, it has (and I hate it when people say this) every option bar PCCB and PASM (neither of which I'm bothered about) and I know I'll struggle to find a 911 that is as well specced
-I've had almost all the suspension replaced so it drives brilliantly, a 4 year old 911 is going to feel tired and will need £££ spending
Comments welcome thanks.
I really want a 997.2 but unfortunately I'm in the position where I need to sell my 987.2 in order to fund it.
I guess my main concern is the handling, I just absolutely love the mid engine layout. Of course people will tell me to drive a 997 and I have but a test drive is not sufficient to find out these things.
Anyway reasons for changing:
+997 looks awesome
+65bhp more
+rear engine is a new experience
+I appreciate the larger cabin
What I'm worried about:
-will be slower round corners by design
-may be slower round corners due to reduced confidence
-my cayman is a fantastic example, it has (and I hate it when people say this) every option bar PCCB and PASM (neither of which I'm bothered about) and I know I'll struggle to find a 911 that is as well specced
-I've had almost all the suspension replaced so it drives brilliantly, a 4 year old 911 is going to feel tired and will need £££ spending
Comments welcome thanks.
Good question...
I have a great spec'd Cayman R, very low miles and use it as a toy for the odd weekend blasts.
But I keep looking at a 997 GT3, which would be older more miles, my budget of £65k would get me a ok Spec one..
Why do I want one.. Love the Cayman, does everything very well...
Looking forward to the replies on this topic.
I have a great spec'd Cayman R, very low miles and use it as a toy for the odd weekend blasts.
But I keep looking at a 997 GT3, which would be older more miles, my budget of £65k would get me a ok Spec one..
Why do I want one.. Love the Cayman, does everything very well...
Looking forward to the replies on this topic.
I am thinking of going the other way, selling my 997.1 and rather than buying 997.2 which will still be an old car, I could buy a fairly new Cayman. I try and use my car as much as possible and for daily use I find the ride very hard. The later cars seem to be more composed and soak up the bumps much better (or is it all in my mind). If only British roads were all like the motorways. Your comments welcome.
threespins said:
I am thinking of going the other way, selling my 997.1 and rather than buying 997.2 which will still be an old car, I could buy a fairly new Cayman. I try and use my car as much as possible and for daily use I find the ride very hard. The later cars seem to be more composed and soak up the bumps much better (or is it all in my mind). If only British roads were all like the motorways. Your comments welcome.
Graham, come to the next club night, at least 3 guys who have sapped 997s for Caymans and are very happy.I don't know if this will be helpful but here goes. I moved from a 987.2 boxster spyder to a 996.1 C4. Obviously the spyder is faster, lighter, more responsive, but the 996 is just as well balanced,still gives great feedback and rides and handles extremely well. I prefer the bigger, better specced cabin and the overall look and feel of the 911.
The key difference as you have guessed is that the 987 benefits from the mass being in the middle. The C4 has the mass at both ends, with a rear bias. It gets around this using evolution and engineering (ie a well developed chassis and 4wd). But the bottom line is that on the road it's still exciting to drive, sounds great and has whatever it is that's porsche dna. Given that I prefer sitting in it and looking at it I have no regrets.
The key difference as you have guessed is that the 987 benefits from the mass being in the middle. The C4 has the mass at both ends, with a rear bias. It gets around this using evolution and engineering (ie a well developed chassis and 4wd). But the bottom line is that on the road it's still exciting to drive, sounds great and has whatever it is that's porsche dna. Given that I prefer sitting in it and looking at it I have no regrets.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Beknown said:
What I'm worried about:
-will be slower round corners by design
-may be slower round corners due to reduced confidence
Really ? -will be slower round corners by design
-may be slower round corners due to reduced confidence
it might be when being a flat out 'Peddler' but in the day to day role ?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yeah maybe, Xenons and PCM are standard on the S aren't they? That's half the battle over, then I need to look out for sport seats and BOSE.At 5 years old and 20,000 miles my Cayman needed all trailing arms, all the coffin arms and all the top mounts replacing. That just leaves the springs, dampers and ARB bushes as original I think? I know it's not conducive but that coupled with many people posting similar experiences on this forum, I think its fair to say Porsche suspension does not last long.
But yes the ambiance is different, which I prefer I dont know but there is a strong pull to the 911 especially when parked next to a Cayman, side by side I can't believe how much better looking the 911 is.
Just to clarify my friend does have a 997.2 which I have driven but despite bragging about using launch control he has the speed warning set at 70mph and I dont think I've ever seen him go more than 60!
Curious but what mods would you do to the 911?
Edited just to add, is there anything official regarding the spring and damper rates of the 997 vs 987? I dont know if its lack of PASM on my car but the 997 seems softer and quieter inside, which is nice.
For what it's worth I can give some input to this, although of course ANY input is entirely subjective. I moved from a Carrera 991 to Cayman GTS, both manual, last autumn, having owned both iterations of the 997 GT3. God, do I wish I'd keep either BUT only from a fiscal view point. More on that later.
Being a 911 addict I had always followed the line that Porsche's only exceptional car was the 911. How wrong could I be!
Yes, the Carrera's are faster, but as Clarkson has said "they are all the time whispering in you're ear 'I'm going to kill you'", but the Cayman, especially the GTS (& more so the GT4 I assume) feels more usable in normal road conditions.
Recently, I tried a PDK 911 GTS, on an extended two day trial. Compared to the CGTS it was faster, yes, but felt heavy & cumbersome, with the added acceleration/speed of limited use in UK conditions. For me the CGTS is the more accessible, more of its performance envelope is usable & therefore there is the feeling of greater involvement with the car. As I am old school, the manual helps in this respect.
So, if the GT3 is a possible option & you will be tracking it, then that's got to be the one. If not tracking it, then the comments on the 911s are valid - more so. Then again, owning a GT3 comes under the heading of "if you can: you must".
If you value tactility in you're driving a Cayman wins hands down.
Remember, it's as not how fast you go, it's how you go fast. Plus, the greater amount of the car's potential that can be used, the more the satisfaction quotient increases.
Being a 911 addict I had always followed the line that Porsche's only exceptional car was the 911. How wrong could I be!
Yes, the Carrera's are faster, but as Clarkson has said "they are all the time whispering in you're ear 'I'm going to kill you'", but the Cayman, especially the GTS (& more so the GT4 I assume) feels more usable in normal road conditions.
Recently, I tried a PDK 911 GTS, on an extended two day trial. Compared to the CGTS it was faster, yes, but felt heavy & cumbersome, with the added acceleration/speed of limited use in UK conditions. For me the CGTS is the more accessible, more of its performance envelope is usable & therefore there is the feeling of greater involvement with the car. As I am old school, the manual helps in this respect.
So, if the GT3 is a possible option & you will be tracking it, then that's got to be the one. If not tracking it, then the comments on the 911s are valid - more so. Then again, owning a GT3 comes under the heading of "if you can: you must".
If you value tactility in you're driving a Cayman wins hands down.
Remember, it's as not how fast you go, it's how you go fast. Plus, the greater amount of the car's potential that can be used, the more the satisfaction quotient increases.
I write this from the point of being an ex-997.2 C2S owner, and having had access to a 987 CR as my brother's car. Both were PDK, both specced to the eyeballs.
For me, the 911 is head and shoulders above the Cayman in every aspect.
Now, I know that's almost heresy to say on here, but it's how I feel. I've always had mid-engined cars so the CR felt very natural to drive and I was going very quickly very quickly (!), but still... It took me about a year to learn how to drive a RR chassis to any great extent, but when everything clicked it was a revelation. The sheer grunt available from long before you'd be able to get the power down in the Cayman was unreal, and whilst you had to work harder to keep it flowing I found that so much more involving than any drive in the CR.
There's other subjective things like how I massively prefer the looks of the 911, and how it feels special to sit behind those five dials, but ultimately that would count for nothing if the drive wasn't any good. It is, and I miss mine something chronic. I wouldn't even think twice about going from a 987 to a 997.
For me, the 911 is head and shoulders above the Cayman in every aspect.
Now, I know that's almost heresy to say on here, but it's how I feel. I've always had mid-engined cars so the CR felt very natural to drive and I was going very quickly very quickly (!), but still... It took me about a year to learn how to drive a RR chassis to any great extent, but when everything clicked it was a revelation. The sheer grunt available from long before you'd be able to get the power down in the Cayman was unreal, and whilst you had to work harder to keep it flowing I found that so much more involving than any drive in the CR.
There's other subjective things like how I massively prefer the looks of the 911, and how it feels special to sit behind those five dials, but ultimately that would count for nothing if the drive wasn't any good. It is, and I miss mine something chronic. I wouldn't even think twice about going from a 987 to a 997.
I moved from a 987.2 S to a 997.2 S a few months back. I'll post up a proper write up, when I get the time, but I'll post the big points here in case the OP is interested.
911 interior is a lot better - more air and space; less road noise (not sure why).
Engine sound - Cayman walks this one, I think. A lot more induction noise.
Engine power delivery - 911 by quite a long chalk: the 3.8 has a more linear power delivery and a stronger top end.
Performance - I can see the argument that the Cayman's pace is more usable, but the difference in outright speed isn't enormous. There are two major differences: the mid-range feels a lot stronger in the 911, and the typical overtaking surge of acceleration (say, starting from 4,500 revs) has a bit more drama.
Handling and ride - the Cayman is flatter in corners, feels more neutral and is more composed at speed. It's also, to me, a bit less blessed with chassis feel. That may just be how I sense the slight handling bias in the 997. If anything, I feel a bit more confident in the 997, but I certainly didn't in the first few hundred miles - after the Cayman, it feels like it wants to understeer (but, unless you're going way too fast, it won't). Traction out of corners is better in the 911 (but not hugely - I think a lot of that sensation is just the increased power). Mid-corner grip seems pretty similar to me. I prefer the 911's handling, but I can see why some prefer the Cayman for its neutrality and composure.
PASM is a bit weird and I am still adjusting to how it responds to trail-braking, etc. It's more comfortable than the non-PASM cars in comfort mode and a bit tighter in sports mode, so it's at least well-judged (even if I am not sure I wouldn't just rather have a good passive set up).
I think the 911 has more steering feel, but I'm not sure that can be right given that the set-ups must be very similar.
The Cayman is better braked, or at least it feels so to me! Probably just the extra weight showing itself in the 911. The weight otherwise doesn't really affect the feel and handling (although, given that I have moved from a PDK to a manual, the actual difference is probably not huge. Manual Cayman to PDK 911 would be a fair jump in weight.)
The only thing I really dislike about the 911 is the light front end at speed. But I think my front dampers might be tired, as I also get a bit of tramlining under heavy acceleration.
Final remark - get a manual 997. I have had more hours of proper driving fun in a few months with the manual box than in 2 years with PDK.
911 interior is a lot better - more air and space; less road noise (not sure why).
Engine sound - Cayman walks this one, I think. A lot more induction noise.
Engine power delivery - 911 by quite a long chalk: the 3.8 has a more linear power delivery and a stronger top end.
Performance - I can see the argument that the Cayman's pace is more usable, but the difference in outright speed isn't enormous. There are two major differences: the mid-range feels a lot stronger in the 911, and the typical overtaking surge of acceleration (say, starting from 4,500 revs) has a bit more drama.
Handling and ride - the Cayman is flatter in corners, feels more neutral and is more composed at speed. It's also, to me, a bit less blessed with chassis feel. That may just be how I sense the slight handling bias in the 997. If anything, I feel a bit more confident in the 997, but I certainly didn't in the first few hundred miles - after the Cayman, it feels like it wants to understeer (but, unless you're going way too fast, it won't). Traction out of corners is better in the 911 (but not hugely - I think a lot of that sensation is just the increased power). Mid-corner grip seems pretty similar to me. I prefer the 911's handling, but I can see why some prefer the Cayman for its neutrality and composure.
PASM is a bit weird and I am still adjusting to how it responds to trail-braking, etc. It's more comfortable than the non-PASM cars in comfort mode and a bit tighter in sports mode, so it's at least well-judged (even if I am not sure I wouldn't just rather have a good passive set up).
I think the 911 has more steering feel, but I'm not sure that can be right given that the set-ups must be very similar.
The Cayman is better braked, or at least it feels so to me! Probably just the extra weight showing itself in the 911. The weight otherwise doesn't really affect the feel and handling (although, given that I have moved from a PDK to a manual, the actual difference is probably not huge. Manual Cayman to PDK 911 would be a fair jump in weight.)
The only thing I really dislike about the 911 is the light front end at speed. But I think my front dampers might be tired, as I also get a bit of tramlining under heavy acceleration.
Final remark - get a manual 997. I have had more hours of proper driving fun in a few months with the manual box than in 2 years with PDK.
One more thing - if you have plenty of money, get a manual GTS and you'll not see a great deal of depreciation (just my guess but I am fairly confident that running a GTS would cost no more than running a cheaper S). I don't think my wife would have tolerated me spending £60k on a GTS, but I don't think that's a bad price for a really good one.
I spent a fair bit of time in a 987 before going for a 997 - for me it's just a more eventful drive - clearly this is completely subjective, but we're talking about cars which can't be maxed on public roads and hence the subjective feel is SO important. The Cayman was just too easy for me - you could push it hard immediately and whilst it has much more feel and is much more of an event than a Z4 or SLK - it feels a lot more clinical than the 997.
I just spent all of last week in a 981 PDK Cayman - lovely car, but once again lacking power (the S would sort it I think) and whilst full of feel, a little lacking in character.
Personally - if prefer the 911 to the Cayman / Boxster - more characterful, more of an event and more feel.
I just spent all of last week in a 981 PDK Cayman - lovely car, but once again lacking power (the S would sort it I think) and whilst full of feel, a little lacking in character.
Personally - if prefer the 911 to the Cayman / Boxster - more characterful, more of an event and more feel.
For me, it has less steering feel and less brake feel, but perhaps marginally more feel through the chassis (but that may just be fresher suspension!)ORD said:
I moved from a 987.2 S to a 997.2 S a few months back. I'll post up a proper write up, when I get the time, but I'll post the big points here in case the OP is interested.
911 interior is a lot better - more air and space; less road noise (not sure why).
Engine sound - Cayman walks this one, I think. A lot more induction noise.
Engine power delivery - 911 by quite a long chalk: the 3.8 has a more linear power delivery and a stronger top end.
Performance - I can see the argument that the Cayman's pace is more usable, but the difference in outright speed isn't enormous. There are two major differences: the mid-range feels a lot stronger in the 911, and the typical overtaking surge of acceleration (say, starting from 4,500 revs) has a bit more drama.
Handling and ride - the Cayman is flatter in corners, feels more neutral and is more composed at speed. It's also, to me, a bit less blessed with chassis feel. That may just be how I sense the slight handling bias in the 997. If anything, I feel a bit more confident in the 997, but I certainly didn't in the first few hundred miles - after the Cayman, it feels like it wants to understeer (but, unless you're going way too fast, it won't). Traction out of corners is better in the 911 (but not hugely - I think a lot of that sensation is just the increased power). Mid-corner grip seems pretty similar to me. I prefer the 911's handling, but I can see why some prefer the Cayman for its neutrality and composure.
PASM is a bit weird and I am still adjusting to how it responds to trail-braking, etc. It's more comfortable than the non-PASM cars in comfort mode and a bit tighter in sports mode, so it's at least well-judged (even if I am not sure I wouldn't just rather have a good passive set up).
I think the 911 has more steering feel, but I'm not sure that can be right given that the set-ups must be very similar.
The Cayman is better braked, or at least it feels so to me! Probably just the extra weight showing itself in the 911. The weight otherwise doesn't really affect the feel and handling (although, given that I have moved from a PDK to a manual, the actual difference is probably not huge. Manual Cayman to PDK 911 would be a fair jump in weight.)
The only thing I really dislike about the 911 is the light front end at speed. But I think my front dampers might be tired, as I also get a bit of tramlining under heavy acceleration.
Final remark - get a manual 997. I have had more hours of proper driving fun in a few months with the manual box than in 2 years with PDK.
the cabin resonates more in the 987 cayman compared to the 997.911 interior is a lot better - more air and space; less road noise (not sure why).
Engine sound - Cayman walks this one, I think. A lot more induction noise.
Engine power delivery - 911 by quite a long chalk: the 3.8 has a more linear power delivery and a stronger top end.
Performance - I can see the argument that the Cayman's pace is more usable, but the difference in outright speed isn't enormous. There are two major differences: the mid-range feels a lot stronger in the 911, and the typical overtaking surge of acceleration (say, starting from 4,500 revs) has a bit more drama.
Handling and ride - the Cayman is flatter in corners, feels more neutral and is more composed at speed. It's also, to me, a bit less blessed with chassis feel. That may just be how I sense the slight handling bias in the 997. If anything, I feel a bit more confident in the 997, but I certainly didn't in the first few hundred miles - after the Cayman, it feels like it wants to understeer (but, unless you're going way too fast, it won't). Traction out of corners is better in the 911 (but not hugely - I think a lot of that sensation is just the increased power). Mid-corner grip seems pretty similar to me. I prefer the 911's handling, but I can see why some prefer the Cayman for its neutrality and composure.
PASM is a bit weird and I am still adjusting to how it responds to trail-braking, etc. It's more comfortable than the non-PASM cars in comfort mode and a bit tighter in sports mode, so it's at least well-judged (even if I am not sure I wouldn't just rather have a good passive set up).
I think the 911 has more steering feel, but I'm not sure that can be right given that the set-ups must be very similar.
The Cayman is better braked, or at least it feels so to me! Probably just the extra weight showing itself in the 911. The weight otherwise doesn't really affect the feel and handling (although, given that I have moved from a PDK to a manual, the actual difference is probably not huge. Manual Cayman to PDK 911 would be a fair jump in weight.)
The only thing I really dislike about the 911 is the light front end at speed. But I think my front dampers might be tired, as I also get a bit of tramlining under heavy acceleration.
Final remark - get a manual 997. I have had more hours of proper driving fun in a few months with the manual box than in 2 years with PDK.
the cayman is simply easier to drive and get the most out of. Whilst the front end of the 911 requires more work. on long sweepers the 911 is more stable and also when you mash the throttle.
The more intimate environment of the cayman also makes it easier to feel it wrap around you.
Finally, the main consideration is whether you need rear seats, that frequently is the biggest consideration. the plus side of the cayman is a rear boot although the rear seats of the 911 can be used for luggage as well.
Finally, the badge and shape, 911 is more iconic. it is porsche.
re value, there is no question.
Beknown said:
Thanks for all the feedback.
I think I am going to do a road trip in the Cayman before selling it (and potentially breaking my heart!).
Final remark, is the 997 really light at the front end at motorway or *cough* autobahn speeds?
Not the 997.2. It is a feature of the 997.1 but steps were taken to design it out of the .2. Better still of course is a 4S. My, albiet brief loan car, experience of the Cayman for me didn't work, to neutral, to light and lacking the 911's character.I think I am going to do a road trip in the Cayman before selling it (and potentially breaking my heart!).
Final remark, is the 997 really light at the front end at motorway or *cough* autobahn speeds?
Edited by Baz99 on Sunday 18th October 10:49
Baz99 said:
Not the 997.2. It is a feature of the 997.1 but steps were taken to design it out of the .2. Better still of course is a 4S. My, albiet brief loan car, experience of the Cayman for me didn't work, to neutral, to light and lacking the 911's character.
Not in my experience. I would say that the 997.2 has a much lighter front end at speeds around 70mph, especially if the surface isn't great. It was like that on every 997.2 I have driven, albeit some more than others (which is why I think the state of the front dampers plays a part in the floaty feeling). Ultimately, having so little weight over the front wheels will feel less planted and reassuring after the Cayman. Edited by Baz99 on Sunday 18th October 10:49
I would gladly drive the 997 faster down a windy road than I would the 987 (as, too me, it feels a bit more agile, despite being heavier), but if I had to drive at 120mph down a motorway, I would definitely choose the Cayman.
Interesting ORD...
I can be quite a naughty boy so "sat at 120" is not an unusual experience.
Has anyone VMAXED their 997 and if so what is the front end/stability like? The Cayman is like a rock.
Anyway I spotted a 997.2 out earlier today and DAMN that backend with the quad exhausts. I will buy one and if I regret it at least I will no longer dwell on the what if.
I can be quite a naughty boy so "sat at 120" is not an unusual experience.
Has anyone VMAXED their 997 and if so what is the front end/stability like? The Cayman is like a rock.
Anyway I spotted a 997.2 out earlier today and DAMN that backend with the quad exhausts. I will buy one and if I regret it at least I will no longer dwell on the what if.
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