Poly bushed

[NeilS3]

Just wandering if anyone has poly bushed the suspension and what density of grade worked well for them? Thinking of upgrading my S3 but don't think I want to feel every bump on the road.

Regards

[phillpot]

There is so little "material" in the bushes (be they rubber or poly) I doubt you will detect any difference in ride quality whatever you opt for, lets face it an S doesn't exactly glide along like a luxury limo

[greymrj]

Up to you, but one thing you ought perhaps to consider is that Adrian Venn, who does all the repair work to the rear suspension trailing arms, advises against using poly bushes. He has seen too many rapid failures.

[phillpot]

greymrj said:

Up to you, but one thing you ought perhaps to consider is that Adrian Venn, who does all the repair work to the rear suspension trailing arms, advises against using poly bushes. He has seen too many rapid failures.

My understanding is Poly bushes for the trailing arms have not been on the market for that long? Bought mine when I first heard of them (receipt date is June 2013) and they are still going strong.

Unlike the wishbone bushes they are very hard, more like plastic?


Old thread on the subject

Busy as I'm sure Adrian is I can't see how he could have seen that many so soon after their introduction?



Anyone else fitted them and had problems?

[greymrj]

I have PM'd Adrian and asked if he might want to add the benefit of his considerable experience with S suspension repairs. He is well respected and better direct from him.

[Ceejay73]

Sadly you may be waiting a long time for a reply.

A message from Adrian - clicky

You could however contact him through his own website or by phone, he is a nice chap to talk to and as stated above, very knowledgeable.

[v8s4me]

There was a very informative thread on here recently about polly bushes but I can't find it at the moment. The gist was that there are good polly bushes and bad polly bushes and you need to be careful which you go for.

[glenrobbo]

IIRC Adrian was just saying in a thread a while ago that he had noticed a few poly rear trailing arm bushes were not faring too well compared to rubber ones.
He was not condemning all poly bushes as inferior to rubber ones.

I have replaced all of my S1 bushes ( with the exception of the trailing arms ) with polyurethane, and the ride is very good, but it is all very subjective. I can't honestly comment on whether there is any difference compared to new rubber bushes, as I replaced the dampers at the same time. However, the handling was greatly improved, especially after a proper geo set-up.

Edited by glenrobbo on Saturday 17th October 23:46

[greymrj]

Ceejay73 said:

Sadly you may be waiting a long time for a reply.

A message from Adrian - clicky

You could however contact him through his own website or by phone, he is a nice chap to talk to and as stated above, very knowledgeable.

Thanks Ceejay73, I knew of the problem but not of that thread. I know the story direct from Adrian and it seems to me that PH could and should have done something positive about it. Retaining Adrian for the benefit of the TVR community on PH should have been seen as more important than the brush he had with the Mods. Mind you, one recent ill informed and unpleasant brush I had with a Mod did finish up with me raising the matter with Haymarket Publications direct, and involving their Customer Experience Manager.
Ironically their treatment of Adrian has damaged PH a little more in that Adrian has now opened a group forum on Facebook. (https://www.facebook.com/groups/adrianvenn/). One of the issues I regularly see mentioned by TVR guys on Facebook is how much of a pain it can be to deal with PH. I think PH is fundamentally far the better forum for enthusiastic owners, but you cannot blame people for being driven away.

Anyway, I have now had a response from Adrian.

In his experience, grit can get between the polybush and the separate steel housing, which cannot happen with the bonded bushes. That grit can cause rapid wear and break up of the poly bushes.
It isnt so much of a problem with the relatively soft compounds used on the front suspension, where there is enough rotational displacement of the poly to maintain contact with the steel housing under most conditions. However in large deflection the polybush may still move against the steel housing.
The rear arm bushes are far more of an issue. The bushes are a stiffer compound to take the load. The degree of rotation they will accomodate is much smaller and there is a good prospect of the arm movement being sufficient for the bush to rotate on the steel sleeve. Coupled with that the rear arm bushes tend to get very wet and dirty. Because the bush and steel are not bonded muck does get in and causes very rapid deterioration. Although these bushes have not been on the market long Adrian has already had to do four complete sets of replacements back to bonded bushes because the poly bushes have broken up. Because of the nature of the poly material and because they are not bonded, once a failure starts it progresses rapidly.

He also commented that in all his time working on these TVR suspension components he has only seen 2 cases of bonded rubber bush failures in this way.

The only times I have used poly bushes was where we wanted to reduce movement so the geometry would be less affected by severe loads; on track day or rally cars. In both cases that was at the expense of compliance on the road, but that was an acceptable consequence. The other issue of course was that the bushes were checked very regularly indeed, and components removed and changed a lot. Poly bushes were virtually treated as disposables. Personally, like Adrian, I am not a fan of polybushes on road cars and I prefer bonded bushes especially with the more modern rubber compounds now in use.

Edited by greymrj on Sunday 18th October 10:21

[v8s4me]

For the curious, you gan get an insight into what pushed Adrian out here...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Believe it or not this was all about the originality, or not, of a washer bottle for Pete's sake!

There have been a few comments on "our" little Forum recently along the lines of "what was fitted originally?" and "...return it to original spec". Like most on here I've modified my 'S' with a view to improving it and driving it (not as much as 'd like!) and not given a toss about "originality". I do hope we don't end up going down this road because it leads to trouble.

[magpies]

As far as I'm concerned you pays yer money and takes yer choice. It is a personal thing, the full spectrum from exactly as TVR built it / only change those things that can't be obtained / change little things to make it better for you / just make it what you want

and all of the above are fine - ask a question and you will get most of the answer along with witty / rude and some very odd answers. We are generally a good and varied bunch which I believe other forums are envious of. As with anything posted on line there will always be trolls who either need to wind their necks in or be given the red card.

[v8s4me]

Agreed, and in the interests of balance, some things are better left original eg (IMHO) the springs and dampers, if you can get the springs that is. My comment was just a plea/hope that we can do what we want to our cars and have them the way way WE want them, and be happy with that, and not head down the slippery slope to "originality fascism". The bottom line is they are cars, and cars are for driving, not arguing about

Right, now back to my favorite rant subject, the French.......................

[Oldred_V8S]

v8s4me said:

Agreed, and in the interests of balance, some things are better left original eg (IMHO) the springs and dampers, if you can get the springs that is. My comment was just a plea/hope that we can do what we want to our cars and have them the way way WE want them, and be happy with that, and not head down the slippery slope to "originality fascism". The bottom line is they are cars, and cars are for driving, not arguing about

Right, now back to my favorite rant subject, the French.......................

Well said Joe. I think one of the greatest things about TVR owners, especially S owners, is that we embrace the changes/improvements others make to their cars. In most instances they are what TVR should have done. I love reading of others improvements especially yours and Philpott's posts that have subject headings such as "look what I have been up to."

Thank God we are not like so many other one-make clubs who frown on non-standard features. My Father had a stunning Rover P2 convertible, it was immaculate except for the Rover roundels on the hub caps. They didn't look out of place, they had the Rover emblem on them and I expect 95% of the people looking at them would not notice they were not original, but the amount of times members of the Rover club pointed it out to him was unbelievable. He could not care they were non-standard and could not understand why it was such an issue for others. As the originals were unobtainable anyway and the option was to have holes in the hub caps where the roundels clip on or non-standard ones, he felt they were a better option.

Edited by Oldred_V8S on Monday 19th October 14:31