Discussion
Hi all, About a year ago I filled up with the usual V Power drove of and after about half a mile the Griff started running really rough and plenty of smoke? out the back, called the RAC (checked receipt to make sure I hadn't put diesel in it) the nice RAC man arrived and checked out the ignition side of things,all ok and by this time she was running fine and he said he thought it was a blocked fuel injector.For the next few months all was fine but now every time I fill up I get the same problem but after a few minutes everything is ok .
So fuel injectors or what ? Thanks for any replies , Simon
So fuel injectors or what ? Thanks for any replies , Simon
When did you last change your fuel filter?
Also worth noting there's gauze filter at the bottom of the tank, if the tank is low when you fill up as you pump in a load of new fuel in at pressure you might be disturbing some sediment that settles again after few miles.
I'd remove the big nut at the bottom of the tank and drain it completely, removing the nut/pickup will also reveal the gauze filter.
Flush the tank through and clean the gauze, then fit a new inline canister fuel filter to complete the job.
My guess is that lot will solve all your problems, but new high pressure fuel hoses are also a good idea as they perish and can collapse/breakdown inside causing more debris and eventually fire generating 40psi petrol sprays (usually on the exhaust).
Also worth noting there's gauze filter at the bottom of the tank, if the tank is low when you fill up as you pump in a load of new fuel in at pressure you might be disturbing some sediment that settles again after few miles.
I'd remove the big nut at the bottom of the tank and drain it completely, removing the nut/pickup will also reveal the gauze filter.
Flush the tank through and clean the gauze, then fit a new inline canister fuel filter to complete the job.
My guess is that lot will solve all your problems, but new high pressure fuel hoses are also a good idea as they perish and can collapse/breakdown inside causing more debris and eventually fire generating 40psi petrol sprays (usually on the exhaust).
shake n bake said:
It wouldn't hurt to have the injectors cleaned properly
It would if the tank and filter are still full of rubbish, well it would at least be waste of money 
I'm note sure why a faulty injector would only happen after filling the tank, unless there's debris in the tank reaching the injectors after its been disturbed by refueling.
BTW you can buy a set of eight far superior twin nozzle Vauxhall Vectra injectors and have them reconditioned for a few quid more than getting the old prehistoric Lucas disc type injectors reconditioned.
No brainer as they say, the Vectra injectors are a straight physical swap, no ECU tweaks required either which is good as you can't really map a 14CUX that easily.
TBH it could quite easily be nothing at all to do with fuel system debris, the car may simply be over fuelling on hot restart which points to an ECU fault, or probably more likely a sensor fault.
It's worth testing the fuel temperature sensor in the rail or even the engine coolant sensor, both of which if faulty could result in a massively over rich fueling situation.
The fuel temperature sensor is there to help the ECU resolve the fuel vaporising effects of a hot restart, if the fuel temperature is above a certain figure the ECU will open the injectors longer to compensate.
On the other had if there's vapor lock on the coolant system causing the ECU temp sensor not to be surrounded by water the system may go into cold start.
Both sensor related issues could give a hugely rich mixture on a hot restart, the most common time we all experience a hot restart is when we've just filled up with fuel.
If the car is indeed heavily over fueling after filling with fuel there will be black smoke and poor running just as the OP describes.
As soon as things settle and the fueling returns to normal the black smoke an poor running will disappear, which again follows exactly what the OP has described.
Food for thought
ChimpOnGas said:
...as you pump in a load of new fuel in at pressure you might be disturbing some sediment that settles again after few miles...
Do we still have sediment coming in petrol from garage forecourts..? I thought that went out with the 80's...?!Never seen any myself in the (admittedly few) petrol tanks I have removed from cars - thought "sediment in the tank" was something confined to the history books these days..?
There's a filter in the tank anyway, but I don't think sediment is an issue either. If the filter in the tank breaks, then the fuel pump will lock solid with a tiny amount of debris. If any happens to get past the pump then there's the uber fine fuel filter to get past. Even after that there's a tiny filter in the injector itself. I'd be very surprised if anything from the tank would ever get as far as the end of the injector!
si easter said:
Hi all, About a year ago I filled up with the usual V Power drove of and after about half a mile the Griff started running really rough and plenty of smoke? out the back, called the RAC (checked receipt to make sure I hadn't put diesel in it) the nice RAC man arrived and checked out the ignition side of things,all ok and by this time she was running fine and he said he thought it was a blocked fuel injector.For the next few months all was fine but now every time I fill up I get the same problem but after a few minutes everything is ok .
So fuel injectors or what ? Thanks for any replies , Simon
This makes no sense- lots of smoke is too much fuel or oil- nothing to do with blocked injectors- that wont produce smoke, so I think something about a tree and barking up the wrong one applies here. As COG says it could be a wrong sensor input to the ECU or possibly fuel pressure going too high.So fuel injectors or what ? Thanks for any replies , Simon
Edited by blitzracing on Tuesday 20th October 15:50
Hi jeboa, I think you may be on to something there , it does smell of petrol when it happens , Ihave a spare set of injectors so think I will get them cleaned by my local fuel injection specialist and get them fitted . If it was stuck open surely this would cause the smoke out of the exhaust ? Simon
Dominic TVRetto said:
Do we still have sediment coming in petrol from garage forecourts..? I thought that went out with the 80's...?!
Never seen any myself in the (admittedly few) petrol tanks I have removed from cars - thought "sediment in the tank" was something confined to the history books these days..?
My experience as well!Never seen any myself in the (admittedly few) petrol tanks I have removed from cars - thought "sediment in the tank" was something confined to the history books these days..?
I removed the tank from my 500 a few months back and expected the tank filter to at least have some evidence of crud.
Not a sign, completely clean, and so was the tank. This was over 55,000 miles and several owners so plenty of chance to collect muck. Steel tanks can however start rusting from the inside and flaking rust can be a big problem in much older cars.
Do the obvious first- drop all 8 plugs out and check the colour. If an injector is sticking one the plug will ether be very black and sooty, or completely washed clean depending if its firing or not. TBH Id be looking at the AFM as first thing to check- when these fail they can make the car over fuel heavily.
d when the purge valve vents to the intake vacuum, you can then investigate why I've had injectors stick open and there is no smoke out the back just neat fuel smell and a complete loss of any power, plus runs like a dog.
If its AFM it gradually gets worse with lots of carbon out the back and eventually just dies, not normally intermittent, unless its an electrical connection??
FFG
If its AFM it gradually gets worse with lots of carbon out the back and eventually just dies, not normally intermittent, unless its an electrical connection??
FFG
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