To Turbo or 5ltr+?
Discussion
hi i currently run a Griffith 500 with a 4.6 V8Developments bottom end, that i need to rebuild as a piston ring has gone on cyl 1, otherwise its a low milliage and good condition engine with new Kent 218 cam, refurbed/improved 500 heads and all intake components, plus ACT carbon plenum etc. I cant decide whether to get a V8 Developments 5.0 or greater bottom end and swop everything over, or rebuild the engine keeping it at 4.6 but putting low comp pistons in it and a nice big turbo. I work at an automotive engineering company (aftermarket parts not engine rebuilds) so i can fab up turbo manifold etc.
What would you do, is a potential 500bhp a little silly in a griff? instead aim for 350bhp n/a.
What would you do, is a potential 500bhp a little silly in a griff? instead aim for 350bhp n/a.
bring it on.Turbocharge the 4.6. You'll never regret it. It's a good solid platform to work with. My addiction started when I turbocharged a 4.5. I just kept on increasing the capacity whilst keeping boost sensible.
ETA, a very long time ago I help somebody called Geary turbocharge his Griff. That was a 5.0 and we fitted some buick heads to lower his compression by a couple of clicks
.
ETA, a very long time ago I help somebody called Geary turbocharge his Griff. That was a 5.0 and we fitted some buick heads to lower his compression by a couple of clicks
.Edited by Boosted LS1 on Tuesday 20th October 20:53
TVaRt said:
hi i currently run a Griffith 500 with a 4.6 V8Developments bottom end, that i need to rebuild as a piston ring has gone on cyl 1, otherwise its a low milliage and good condition engine with new Kent 218 cam, refurbed/improved 500 heads and all intake components, plus ACT carbon plenum etc. I cant decide whether to get a V8 Developments 5.0 or greater bottom end and swop everything over, or rebuild the engine keeping it at 4.6 but putting low comp pistons in it and a nice big turbo. I work at an automotive engineering company (aftermarket parts not engine rebuilds) so i can fab up turbo manifold etc.
What would you do, is a potential 500bhp a little silly in a griff? instead aim for 350bhp n/a.
If I had my time again FI is the way I would go. 350 bhp plus na is very expensive!What would you do, is a potential 500bhp a little silly in a griff? instead aim for 350bhp n/a.
The car is a Sunday drive/car show/road car only. I dont do long distances in it, but i like the idea of a potentially very fast car that will give modern stuff a shock, give the Griffith its muscle car title back.
QBee said:
My favourite question - for what do you plan to use the finished car?
Sunday drives/car shows
Fast road
Continental touring
Bragging rights
Track/sprint days
Something of which I have not thought.
That will perhaps determine what you do
Sunday drives/car shows
Fast road
Continental touring
Bragging rights
Track/sprint days
Something of which I have not thought.
That will perhaps determine what you do
Hmm insteresting, i could raise some funds by the sale of my ACT plenum and 500 heads. Did you put in forged pistons? i can find some forged pistons but not with valve cuts to clear my cam (Kent H218), or would i need to change the cam also?
I have just realised that i have already spoken to you about this. Probably need to have more of a chat...
I have just realised that i have already spoken to you about this
. Probably need to have more of a chat...Boosted LS1 said:
Turbocharge the 4.6. You'll never regret it. It's a good solid platform to work with. My addiction started when I turbocharged a 4.5. I just kept on increasing the capacity whilst keeping boost sensible.
ETA, a very long time ago I help somebody called Geary turbocharge his Griff. That was a 5.0 and we fitted some buick heads to lower his compression by a couple of clicks.
ETA, a very long time ago I help somebody called Geary turbocharge his Griff. That was a 5.0 and we fitted some buick heads to lower his compression by a couple of clicks
.Edited by Boosted LS1 on Tuesday 20th October 20:53[/footnote]
[footnote]Edited by TVaRt on Wednesday 21st October 08:19
TVaRt said:
The car is a Sunday drive/car show/road car only. I dont do long distances in it, but i like the idea of a potentially very fast car that will give modern stuff a shock, give the Griffith its muscle car title back.
Take serious heed of Bluebottle's advice - having followed the FI threads on here for some time now, I can see a lot of joy is to be had when it all works properly, but a load of grief is also available when it doesn't. We only get to hear of the problems on here, but they do seem to be many and varied.QBee said:
My favourite question - for what do you plan to use the finished car?
Sunday drives/car shows
Fast road
Continental touring
Bragging rights
Track/sprint days
Something of which I have not thought.
That will perhaps determine what you do
Sunday drives/car shows
Fast road
Continental touring
Bragging rights
Track/sprint days
Something of which I have not thought.
That will perhaps determine what you do
And it may not be as cheap as it looks, as a good wallop of turbo will break much of your transmission unless you upgrade it, and can even break your engine.....and you will almost certainly be upgrading the engine management system too, unless you already have, as well as having one or more re-maps of the system. Indeed, try to plan your work so that you don't end up having to have several remaps as you do things in stages, as unless you have the knowledge to do them yourself, they are £250-750 a time in my experience.
Good luck and have fun....but make sure first that it is the fun you want to have, and do your homework before you start. Perhaps have a lengthy chat with Macdeb, and ask him to give you a costed list of all the parts and services that he paid for to get to the glorious result he now has.
TVaRt said:
Edited by TVaRt on Wednesday 21st October 08:19
Is Eann still doing turbo kits.. his was a magic conversion. http://www.torquev8.com/
have a word with him... he knows a thing or two
have a word with him... he knows a thing or two
TVR Beaver said:
Is Eann still doing turbo kits.. his was a magic conversion. http://www.torquev8.com/
have a word with him... he knows a thing or two
have a word with him... he knows a thing or two
QBee said:
Take serious heed of Bluebottle's advice - having followed the FI threads on here for some time now, I can see a lot of joy is to be had when it all works properly, but a load of grief is also available when it doesn't. We only get to hear of the problems on here, but they do seem to be many and varied.
And it may not be as cheap as it looks, as a good wallop of turbo will break much of your transmission unless you upgrade it, and can even break your engine.....and you will almost certainly be upgrading the engine management system too, unless you already have, as well as having one or more re-maps of the system. Indeed, try to plan your work so that you don't end up having to have several remaps as you do things in stages, as unless you have the knowledge to do them yourself, they are £250-750 a time in my experience.
Good luck and have fun....but make sure first that it is the fun you want to have, and do your homework before you start. Perhaps have a lengthy chat with Macdeb, and ask him to give you a costed list of all the parts and services that he paid for to get to the glorious result he now has.
crikey, thanks Anthony. And it may not be as cheap as it looks, as a good wallop of turbo will break much of your transmission unless you upgrade it, and can even break your engine.....and you will almost certainly be upgrading the engine management system too, unless you already have, as well as having one or more re-maps of the system. Indeed, try to plan your work so that you don't end up having to have several remaps as you do things in stages, as unless you have the knowledge to do them yourself, they are £250-750 a time in my experience.
Good luck and have fun....but make sure first that it is the fun you want to have, and do your homework before you start. Perhaps have a lengthy chat with Macdeb, and ask him to give you a costed list of all the parts and services that he paid for to get to the glorious result he now has.
phazed said:
You could get a Rob 5.4/5.5 bottom end and fit all the trimmings to achieve 370-380 BHP/ 450 Torque NA or thereabouts.
A ral pussycat to drive with plenty of real world power.
Of course more expensive then basic FI but simpler and hopefully last longer!
Turbocharged forced induction's actually easier on the con-rods then in a n/a engine. Imo a modest FI engine should last as long as a n/a engine. For a start it won't need revving to make power as 'extra' revs put huge loads on an engine. Heat management is the name of the game as well as sensible engine management. A street turbo engine never sees a lot of sustained boost. It just needs to flick up through a few gear changes A ral pussycat to drive with plenty of real world power.
Of course more expensive then basic FI but simpler and hopefully last longer!
To be fair a 4.0 turbo will see 380bhp...Big power NA always costs ALOT more I wouldn't waste your money.
Once you have been out in a turbo converted car your mind will be made up as most that have.
Sounds like your quite handy with the fab so another custom turbo install would be good to see
Once you have been out in a turbo converted car your mind will be made up as most that have.
Sounds like your quite handy with the fab so another custom turbo install would be good to see
Pupp said:
QBee said:
We only get to hear of the problems on here, but they do seem to be many and varied.
And we all know the NA cars, standard or tweaked, never break, leak, or need mapping do they?I meant we don't hear much about the successful FI conversions, of which there must have been many.
But what we do hear about is those who convert and then have problems and frustrations, many and varied and sometimes pretty expensive.
Yes, standard cars have problems, Modded NA cars have problems. I've had lean running problems initially after my own mods, due to nobody thinking to map the ECU precisely to the modified NA car.
But none since then, 24,000 miles on, despite a lot of hammering on track days. Unlike Bluebottle, I have had 28 months of fun out of the last 30.
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