Porsche supercar
Discussion
I'm just wondering / thinking out loud.
Should / would Porsche make a 'supercar'.
By this I mean something around the £250k mark to challenge the likes of the 650S.
I've thought this after the recent Chris Harris tests and the like. I mean the 991 RS and Turbo S both lap Anglesey in the same time, so lap performance wise we can say they're evenly matched.
The 650S is clearly a quicker car at a higher price point, and what we could describe as a true 'supercar'.
I'd love to see Porsche come up with something to take the 650S head on, maybe this is where the GT2 should come in, but we haven't heard much about one, have we?
Or perhaps they'd go with a midship layout, taking cues from the 918.
What are your thoughts guys?
Should / would Porsche make a 'supercar'.
By this I mean something around the £250k mark to challenge the likes of the 650S.
I've thought this after the recent Chris Harris tests and the like. I mean the 991 RS and Turbo S both lap Anglesey in the same time, so lap performance wise we can say they're evenly matched.
The 650S is clearly a quicker car at a higher price point, and what we could describe as a true 'supercar'.
I'd love to see Porsche come up with something to take the 650S head on, maybe this is where the GT2 should come in, but we haven't heard much about one, have we?
Or perhaps they'd go with a midship layout, taking cues from the 918.
What are your thoughts guys?
yes they should.
The issue I guess is that the parent have Lambo and Bugatti to cover off that angle...
and it appears that Porsche prefer to keep the supercar thing as a once-a-decade-limited-number-balls-out model, which sadly the other key competitors do too and so Porsche don't really capitalise on having one, as the focus is on the 'which is best' frenzy, and then everything returns to normal and Porsche supercar lovers are left waiting for another 10 years... ish.
Whilst I love the new 991, I don't think it maters what you do to it, it'll never be held in the same regard as the top flight Ferraris and McLarens...
I think Porsche could plug that gap pretty easily really, raid the parts bin, use it to give a new design direction, throw in some typically awesome engineering and handling know how...it's all already there to be used...
That and a modern day 928 and 356 model range please.
The issue I guess is that the parent have Lambo and Bugatti to cover off that angle...
and it appears that Porsche prefer to keep the supercar thing as a once-a-decade-limited-number-balls-out model, which sadly the other key competitors do too and so Porsche don't really capitalise on having one, as the focus is on the 'which is best' frenzy, and then everything returns to normal and Porsche supercar lovers are left waiting for another 10 years... ish.
Whilst I love the new 991, I don't think it maters what you do to it, it'll never be held in the same regard as the top flight Ferraris and McLarens...
I think Porsche could plug that gap pretty easily really, raid the parts bin, use it to give a new design direction, throw in some typically awesome engineering and handling know how...it's all already there to be used...
That and a modern day 928 and 356 model range please.
what like this you mean :-)
2017 Porsche 960: A 600-plus-hp, Mid-Engined Bridge Between the 911 and 918
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/porsche/por...
2017 Porsche 960: A 600-plus-hp, Mid-Engined Bridge Between the 911 and 918
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-shots/porsche/por...
Such a car has been in development for quite a while now. First rumours started to appear after the 918 was released. They are/were on something to cover the middle ground between 911 Turbo S and 918, presumably mid-engined and meant to replace the 991 in the GT racing series. The project was nicknamed "FeFi" short for Ferrari Fighter. You can find more information via google.
Here's a random snippet I found:
"960: While Mueller has said it's not a priority, Porsche continues developing a two-seat mid-engine coupe to slot into the wide space between the 911 and the 918 Spyder. Dubbed "FeFi" inside the company -- for Ferrari fighter -- it could debut in 2017. The vehicle's price could start around 200,000 euros (roughly $267,000 at current rates). According to one report, the vehicle could use a 3.9-liter boxer eight-cylinder engine with four turbochargers producing 650 hp. Engineers would employ liberal use of aluminum and composites in the architecture to limit the weight to 3,000 pounds. All-wheel drive is likely."
The big question is whether or not this project survived the recent culling of "unnecessary" investments within VAG due to the diesel scandal crisis.
Here's a random snippet I found:
"960: While Mueller has said it's not a priority, Porsche continues developing a two-seat mid-engine coupe to slot into the wide space between the 911 and the 918 Spyder. Dubbed "FeFi" inside the company -- for Ferrari fighter -- it could debut in 2017. The vehicle's price could start around 200,000 euros (roughly $267,000 at current rates). According to one report, the vehicle could use a 3.9-liter boxer eight-cylinder engine with four turbochargers producing 650 hp. Engineers would employ liberal use of aluminum and composites in the architecture to limit the weight to 3,000 pounds. All-wheel drive is likely."
The big question is whether or not this project survived the recent culling of "unnecessary" investments within VAG due to the diesel scandal crisis.
With McLaren seeming to drop into 911 Turbo territory with their new car this (alleged) project came back to mind yesterday.I wonder if they can borrow existing components to any extent. 918 carbon tub with some modification to take a turbocharged flat 6 from the 991 Turbo but with more power squeezed from it. I'd LOVE to see a a flat 8, even if it is muted by turbocharging, but suspect it would more like be based on an existing V8. Perhaps with hybrid power also?
EricE said:
The big question is whether or not this project survived the recent culling of "unnecessary" investments within VAG due to the diesel scandal crisis.
From what I hear this is still going forward. The 911 will become a more of a GT within the brand (some say this has happened already with the 991) and this mid engined car will be the supercar of the brand sitting as a direct 488/Huracan competitor.The 911 has reached the limit of the engine and chassis development in GT3 racing and will be replaced possibly by a Cayman race car until the new project is released and they can homologate a GT3 version of that.
The 'problem' is they already do.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
They seem to just make cars for speculators these days.
I would buy one of the above but they would laugh at me if I.called them and asked to.
It's not a race derived car but it's clearly very special. They could sell these cars all day long but they are 'protecting' their brand and I guess residuals and the halo effect it creates.
The reality is the car gets cocooned or sold at a huge premium.
Free market and all that. Great , but it's put me off the brand.
I'm on my 9th Porsche, a Cayam GTS which is one of the best cars I have owned without all the silliness that goes with it price wise.
My next car will not be a Porsche, they are just feeding the speculator and second hand market more than any other brand at the GT3 price model and it's not a car for purists any more.
Do they care? Probably pats on the back all round but they have lost me. I don't want to be literally laughed at if I inquire about one of their cars. Be nice to see them be more humble or sell cars to people who will drive them
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
They seem to just make cars for speculators these days.
I would buy one of the above but they would laugh at me if I.called them and asked to.
It's not a race derived car but it's clearly very special. They could sell these cars all day long but they are 'protecting' their brand and I guess residuals and the halo effect it creates.
The reality is the car gets cocooned or sold at a huge premium.
Free market and all that. Great , but it's put me off the brand.
I'm on my 9th Porsche, a Cayam GTS which is one of the best cars I have owned without all the silliness that goes with it price wise.
My next car will not be a Porsche, they are just feeding the speculator and second hand market more than any other brand at the GT3 price model and it's not a car for purists any more.
Do they care? Probably pats on the back all round but they have lost me. I don't want to be literally laughed at if I inquire about one of their cars. Be nice to see them be more humble or sell cars to people who will drive them
smithyithy said:
I'm just wondering / thinking out loud.
Should / would Porsche make a 'supercar'.
By this I mean something around the £250k mark to challenge the likes of the 650S.
I've thought this after the recent Chris Harris tests and the like. I mean the 991 RS and Turbo S both lap Anglesey in the same time, so lap performance wise we can say they're evenly matched.
The 650S is clearly a quicker car at a higher price point, and what we could describe as a true 'supercar'.
I'd love to see Porsche come up with something to take the 650S head on, maybe this is where the GT2 should come in, but we haven't heard much about one, have we?
Or perhaps they'd go with a midship layout, taking cues from the 918.
What are your thoughts guys?
Why, 991GT3 will deal with a 650s, in a "proper" track test. RS is big move above the GT3, but needs some big tracks, look forward to see some real times around Spa, etc....it did well to match the Turbo S round the short Anglesey track imv,( only one sec behind the P1 12.6 time) Should / would Porsche make a 'supercar'.
By this I mean something around the £250k mark to challenge the likes of the 650S.
I've thought this after the recent Chris Harris tests and the like. I mean the 991 RS and Turbo S both lap Anglesey in the same time, so lap performance wise we can say they're evenly matched.
The 650S is clearly a quicker car at a higher price point, and what we could describe as a true 'supercar'.
I'd love to see Porsche come up with something to take the 650S head on, maybe this is where the GT2 should come in, but we haven't heard much about one, have we?
Or perhaps they'd go with a midship layout, taking cues from the 918.
What are your thoughts guys?
The fastest stock cars tested on that race track:
1:32,51 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S (991)
1:32,84 min - Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4 (semi-slicks)
1:32,97 min - Porsche 911 GT3 (991, semi-slicks)
1:33,15 min - McLaren 650S (semi-slicks)
1:33,23 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet (991, semi-slicks)
1:33,38 min - Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Black Series (semi-slicks)
1:33,51 min - Porsche 911 GT2 RS (997.2) (semi-slicks)
1:33,61 min - McLaren MP4-12C (625 hp, semi-slicks)
1:33,69 min - McLaren MP4-12C Spider (semi-slicks)
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 23 October 17:21
APOLO1 said:
Why, 991GT3 will deal with a 650s, in a "proper" track test. RS is big move above the GT3, but needs some big tracks, look forward to see some real times around Spa, etc....it did well to match the Turbo S round the short Anglesey track imv,( only one sec behind the P1 12.6 time)
The fastest stock cars tested on that race track:
1:32,51 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S (991)
1:32,84 min - Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4 (semi-slicks)
1:32,97 min - Porsche 911 GT3 (991, semi-slicks)
1:33,15 min - McLaren 650S (semi-slicks)
1:33,23 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet (991, semi-slicks)
1:33,38 min - Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Black Series (semi-slicks)
1:33,51 min - Porsche 911 GT2 RS (997.2) (semi-slicks)
1:33,61 min - McLaren MP4-12C (625 hp, semi-slicks)
1:33,69 min - McLaren MP4-12C Spider (semi-slicks)
To be fair, going on lap times alone you could call the Porsches good value for money!The fastest stock cars tested on that race track:
1:32,51 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S (991)
1:32,84 min - Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4 (semi-slicks)
1:32,97 min - Porsche 911 GT3 (991, semi-slicks)
1:33,15 min - McLaren 650S (semi-slicks)
1:33,23 min - Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet (991, semi-slicks)
1:33,38 min - Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG Black Series (semi-slicks)
1:33,51 min - Porsche 911 GT2 RS (997.2) (semi-slicks)
1:33,61 min - McLaren MP4-12C (625 hp, semi-slicks)
1:33,69 min - McLaren MP4-12C Spider (semi-slicks)
Edited by APOLO1 on Friday 23 October 17:21
smithyithy said:
To be fair, going on lap times alone you could call the Porsches good value for money!
To be fair S, I agree the 650s is very fast in a line, give it a bend and its another story though.....see belowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aODISxOHiI
APOLO1 said:
To be fair S, I agree the 650s is very fast in a line, give it a bend and its another story though.....
And that explains why in more track comparison tests than not overall in the various mags, the 650/12c are..... faster than the 991 gt3 despite not being able to go fast in anything other than a straight line... 
APOLO1 said:
but not on earth eh........lol only in " Cult" land.....
Indeed depends on which cult one believes in. One seems to recall the Sportauto Hockenheim times for the 650/12c being much faster than the 991 gt3, Willow springs Motortrend test, Vairano Quattroroute being quicker for the Mclaren as well.... Last I checked, Germany/Italy/US still counted as earth
smithyithy said:
The 650S is clearly a quicker car at a higher price point, and what we could describe as a true 'supercar'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AJPt_qm5kY
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