F10 M5. Should i have bought Alpina?
Discussion
I'm struggling a bit with my F10
I bought it about 4 months ago to replace a well-loved e39 530d.
The problem is that the old car felt better in a lot of situations, despite its age.
Motorway -e39 was much quieter and composed, no annoying bump-thump over joints, felt just as responsive at sensible speeds with half as much fuel used. ( I know, I know, M5 v diesel, but unless the M5 is better in other ways then the extra fuel is not justifiable as a cost of better performance. ) The M5 also has an annoying tremor at around 80, which is probably tracking, but does come up in other sites as a problem. M5 ride always feels a bit 'jiggly', which on a 400 mile drive to Scotland is a PITA.
In town - e39 felt a lot smaller and responsive, gear-change a lot smoother (after a bit of town driving the F10 shunts a bit when l lift off and it's always a bit sluggish to get off the mark). F10 feels like a much bigger car, but my kids complain about the rear space. I think it's because the front seats are so big. And comfortable, mind.
Country roads - the F10 sheer grunt factor is in a completely different league and great fun, but some of the most memorable cross- country drives in the e39 were due to the suspension compliance - flowing over bumps without fuss, so you could keep the power down. I've never managed to get the F10 into that state, no matter how much fiddling I do with the settings. It always feels as if it is 'fighting' the road surface, not keyed into it, like the older car.
So, after 4 months and 6000 miles, I'm still not loving the beast. Should i have bought an Alpina.D5 / D3 instead?
I bought it about 4 months ago to replace a well-loved e39 530d.
The problem is that the old car felt better in a lot of situations, despite its age.
Motorway -e39 was much quieter and composed, no annoying bump-thump over joints, felt just as responsive at sensible speeds with half as much fuel used. ( I know, I know, M5 v diesel, but unless the M5 is better in other ways then the extra fuel is not justifiable as a cost of better performance. ) The M5 also has an annoying tremor at around 80, which is probably tracking, but does come up in other sites as a problem. M5 ride always feels a bit 'jiggly', which on a 400 mile drive to Scotland is a PITA.
In town - e39 felt a lot smaller and responsive, gear-change a lot smoother (after a bit of town driving the F10 shunts a bit when l lift off and it's always a bit sluggish to get off the mark). F10 feels like a much bigger car, but my kids complain about the rear space. I think it's because the front seats are so big. And comfortable, mind.
Country roads - the F10 sheer grunt factor is in a completely different league and great fun, but some of the most memorable cross- country drives in the e39 were due to the suspension compliance - flowing over bumps without fuss, so you could keep the power down. I've never managed to get the F10 into that state, no matter how much fiddling I do with the settings. It always feels as if it is 'fighting' the road surface, not keyed into it, like the older car.
So, after 4 months and 6000 miles, I'm still not loving the beast. Should i have bought an Alpina.D5 / D3 instead?
I totally agree with you on the F10 M5 ride, on the test drive I did it felt exactly the same, almost a rapid back and forth oscillation almost all the time. It's one of the main reasons I did not get one and went for the M6 GC CP instead, it does not have that characteristic.
The E39 is a massively capable car, if it were not for the age and the relatively old tech, I'd rather have one than an F10, or pretty much any modern equivalent, I still have my E39 M5 because it's just such a good all round car. I suspect that you might have been disappointed in some way with any modern replacement.
The E39 is a massively capable car, if it were not for the age and the relatively old tech, I'd rather have one than an F10, or pretty much any modern equivalent, I still have my E39 M5 because it's just such a good all round car. I suspect that you might have been disappointed in some way with any modern replacement.
Maybe it's just me but I found the M5 too comfortable so fitted a set of ACS springs to lower and firm the car up, improved the handling gave the car more traction and it blasts down a b road, I find the car pretty imperious on the Yorkshire moorland roads I drive on as well as the motorway. (not for the OP though as it firms the ride up)
As for putting the power down you can't compare a 190hp car with a 560hp car (as you have done) that has 500lb/ft from just 1500rpm, just keep the m5 at 2000rpm and you'll be making the same power then as the e39 530d was at WOT.
It sounds like your car needs a KDS as they are very sensitive to changes in the set up you shouldn't be getting any issues at 80mph that will also help with the traction.
A DCT box isn't a slush box and nor should it behave like one, it's there to provide ultra fast gear changes and add emotion to the drive with a thump as it grabs the next gear accompanied by that sharp blare from the exhaust on up shift, it's a wonderful thing if you ask me.
The M5 is a meaty beast of a car with most dynoing nearer 600hp so no wonder it will struggle for traction if you let it off the leash but that's part of the experience for me.
I drove a friends new RS6 last week and that was very soft, quiet, soothing and comes with an 8sp slushbox I think you might need to look there or as you say Alpina.
As for putting the power down you can't compare a 190hp car with a 560hp car (as you have done) that has 500lb/ft from just 1500rpm, just keep the m5 at 2000rpm and you'll be making the same power then as the e39 530d was at WOT.
It sounds like your car needs a KDS as they are very sensitive to changes in the set up you shouldn't be getting any issues at 80mph that will also help with the traction.
A DCT box isn't a slush box and nor should it behave like one, it's there to provide ultra fast gear changes and add emotion to the drive with a thump as it grabs the next gear accompanied by that sharp blare from the exhaust on up shift, it's a wonderful thing if you ask me.
The M5 is a meaty beast of a car with most dynoing nearer 600hp so no wonder it will struggle for traction if you let it off the leash but that's part of the experience for me.
I drove a friends new RS6 last week and that was very soft, quiet, soothing and comes with an 8sp slushbox I think you might need to look there or as you say Alpina.
Thanks for the comments.
I think my disappointment stems from the thought that the F10 M5 can be a master of all trades - hardcore blaster and comfy cruiser. It can certainly do the former, but in my opinion it is not very good at the latter. Which defeats the purpose of the car for me as there is not much much point for me in having a 'fun' car that weighs 2 tonnes.
The suspension / ride thing isn' t just about softness - it's about compliance. I find comfort mode too soft, even on motorways, but if i go up to sport or sport+, then the car slaps over every joint and bump. Which is fine if you're on a mission, but on a trip out of London last night, the elevated section of the M4 felt like corrugated iron in places.
And as this is supposed to be the 'daily' , then I think i need to have a rethink.
I will get the alignment checked out - thanks for the suggestion.
I think my disappointment stems from the thought that the F10 M5 can be a master of all trades - hardcore blaster and comfy cruiser. It can certainly do the former, but in my opinion it is not very good at the latter. Which defeats the purpose of the car for me as there is not much much point for me in having a 'fun' car that weighs 2 tonnes.
The suspension / ride thing isn' t just about softness - it's about compliance. I find comfort mode too soft, even on motorways, but if i go up to sport or sport+, then the car slaps over every joint and bump. Which is fine if you're on a mission, but on a trip out of London last night, the elevated section of the M4 felt like corrugated iron in places.
And as this is supposed to be the 'daily' , then I think i need to have a rethink.
I will get the alignment checked out - thanks for the suggestion.
My M6 is a master of all so long as you play with the settings a little so I'm surprised the 5 is not as good? Try tyre pressures and then have a mix and play with the settings. Eg on mine the softest steering setting is to soft for the motorway and it wanders but up a notch and alls well. They are infanintly adjustable so try getting a balance that suits you rather than comparing to an old car.
Just blasted across the moors, S3 then sport+/sport/sport (throttle/dampers/steering) Perfect! Tomorrow on my 4.30am 220 mile schlep down south it will all be in comfort which again for me is spot on.
It isn't a perfect car what car is? But for me it isn't far short the only thing it lacks is visual drama.
It isn't a perfect car what car is? But for me it isn't far short the only thing it lacks is visual drama.
Surprising - haven't seen any of the F10 owners complain of similar characteristics - maybe we're all blinkered.
For myself, last week I drove to Frankfurt and back, I can't think of any other car that would have been as good.
One of my best friends currently has a D3 Alpina as his daily diver and he raves about it - he has had lot's of interesting machinery including Ferrari's and M cars. If you can't get comfortable with the M5, maybe an Alpina might suit you.
For myself, last week I drove to Frankfurt and back, I can't think of any other car that would have been as good.
One of my best friends currently has a D3 Alpina as his daily diver and he raves about it - he has had lot's of interesting machinery including Ferrari's and M cars. If you can't get comfortable with the M5, maybe an Alpina might suit you.
I don't want to give up on it too easily as I like a lot of other things about it. Cost to change will also be a a bitter pill to swallow after 4 months. In a year where we're buying a new kitchen.......
So. Are you gents all running on 20 inch wheels? Any benefit to moving to 19s? It's also on pirellis - would michelins be better?The tyre pressures are showing as 29/32 front/rear on the in-house telly - is this optimum, do we think?
Thanks for the help so far.
So. Are you gents all running on 20 inch wheels? Any benefit to moving to 19s? It's also on pirellis - would michelins be better?The tyre pressures are showing as 29/32 front/rear on the in-house telly - is this optimum, do we think?
Thanks for the help so far.
It definitely shouldn't feel unsettled at any speed - suggest checking tyre pressures and KDS as others have mentioned. Out of interest what wheels and tyres are on it? I have MPSS on OEM 19" and mine feels perfectly compliant. I had an E39 530d for a long time and the F10 certainly doesn't feel worse for comfort as a daily - I say this having done 16k miles in 6 months including a single 2000 mile weekend jaunt in Germany - during which I never felt tired of driving.
It's on OEM 20s and pirellis, which I suspect is the worst possible combination.
The unsettledness is unnerving. I was on the Autoroute a week after I bought it and first noticed that to get it to move beyond about 80 actually took a bit of a conscious effort. I expected it to be pretty effortless at all speeds, but that isn't how it feels to me.
The unsettledness is unnerving. I was on the Autoroute a week after I bought it and first noticed that to get it to move beyond about 80 actually took a bit of a conscious effort. I expected it to be pretty effortless at all speeds, but that isn't how it feels to me.
I'm on 20s and MPSS, not sure on pressures.
My car feels much more comfortable than previous E90 M3 on 19s and EDC and positively limousine like compared to my wife's TT running on standard suspension and 18s. Now the TT has truly dreadful suspension - I made the mistake of speccing her previous car, a Mini Cooper S, with sport suspension and thought it would be difficult to get any worse - how wrong I was.
My car feels much more comfortable than previous E90 M3 on 19s and EDC and positively limousine like compared to my wife's TT running on standard suspension and 18s. Now the TT has truly dreadful suspension - I made the mistake of speccing her previous car, a Mini Cooper S, with sport suspension and thought it would be difficult to get any worse - how wrong I was.
Hawmaws said:
It's on OEM 20s and pirellis, which I suspect is the worst possible combination.
The unsettledness is unnerving. I was on the Autoroute a week after I bought it and first noticed that to get it to move beyond about 80 actually took a bit of a conscious effort. I expected it to be pretty effortless at all speeds, but that isn't how it feels to me.
The car can certainly feel a little lethargic in the default setup - I'd find myself snapping it down a few gears manually or having to put your foot down a little further than expected. I normally put the car in D2 for general driving, which is much more progressive - flex for foot for an overtake and it just seems to know what you're doing - but it's not so sporty as to hold the revs high and it will change all the way up to 7 in normal driving.The unsettledness is unnerving. I was on the Autoroute a week after I bought it and first noticed that to get it to move beyond about 80 actually took a bit of a conscious effort. I expected it to be pretty effortless at all speeds, but that isn't how it feels to me.
I suspect 20 and pirellis is not the best combination for supple ride quality - I stuck with 19" because I was concerned about ride immensely and also because I was constantly seeing posts about MPSS being unavailable in 20" - but conversely plenty of guys here have the 20's and don't have the same problem - so you may find the tyre choice is a bigger factor than the dimensions / lower profile.
Wills2 said:
Just blasted across the moors, S3 then sport+/sport/sport (throttle/dampers/steering) Perfect! Tomorrow on my 4.30am 220 mile schlep down south it will all be in comfort which again for me is spot on.
I'll be doing a similar thing in my F06, it makes a 250 odd mile journey pretty effortless.I think you should have tried a D3/D5 or B3/B5 their suspension is more compliant my D3 put my M3 to shame when it came to ride quality then when pressing on the ride was a level above but at the final 10th the M3 was better but those moments were to few & far between, plus it has the added bonus of feeling like a step up in quality in the interior.
This is why the M3 has gone & the D3 is going nowhere.
This is why the M3 has gone & the D3 is going nowhere.
RichardM5 said:
Wills2 said:
Just blasted across the moors, S3 then sport+/sport/sport (throttle/dampers/steering) Perfect! Tomorrow on my 4.30am 220 mile schlep down south it will all be in comfort which again for me is spot on.
I'll be doing a similar thing in my F06, it makes a 250 odd mile journey pretty effortless.ZX10R NIN said:
I think you should have tried a D3/D5 or B3/B5 their suspension is more compliant my D3 put my M3 to shame when it came to ride quality then when pressing on the ride was a level above but at the final 10th the M3 was better but those moments were to few & far between, plus it has the added bonus of feeling like a step up in quality in the interior.
This is why the M3 has gone & the D3 is going nowhere.
M5 not like M3.This is why the M3 has gone & the D3 is going nowhere.
theboss said:
The car can certainly feel a little lethargic in the default setup - I'd find myself snapping it down a few gears manually or having to put your foot down a little further than expected. I normally put the car in D2 for general driving, which is much more progressive - flex for foot for an overtake and it just seems to know what you're doing - but it's not so sporty as to hold the revs high and it will change all the way up to 7 in normal driving.
I suspect 20 and pirellis is not the best combination for supple ride quality - I stuck with 19" because I was concerned about ride immensely and also because I was constantly seeing posts about MPSS being unavailable in 20" - but conversely plenty of guys here have the 20's and don't have the same problem - so you may find the tyre choice is a bigger factor than the dimensions / lower profile.
This. I hear so many stories about poor traction & ride quality on the 20's that are not apparent at all on the 19's with MPSS. Just back from my few days on track in Europe & as above i can't think of a better car for this than the F10 M5. Crushed across Holland & Belgium in supreme comfort with better than excellent ride quality, at the touch of a button i was goofing in tunnels & shredding tarmac for fun & then on track i could sharpen everything up further to put in some decent enough times on a par with 991 GT3's (couple of seconds slower), so what's not to love about the car?.I suspect 20 and pirellis is not the best combination for supple ride quality - I stuck with 19" because I was concerned about ride immensely and also because I was constantly seeing posts about MPSS being unavailable in 20" - but conversely plenty of guys here have the 20's and don't have the same problem - so you may find the tyre choice is a bigger factor than the dimensions / lower profile.
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