Road & Track Sports Car Test
Discussion
Makes the C6 the winner although not without reservations. For a start, they do take price into account (unlike JC) so despite nearly every editor on the road test nominating either the Boxster S or Carrera S as best car, the 100% premium on the Carrera and $14k premium of the Boxster S held them back from top honours.
Cars involved: C6, carrera S, Boxster S, Elise, S2000, Viper, Z4, SLK350
Some interesting stats for the C6:
0-60 in 4.5 and 1/4 in 12.8 @ 114.5mph (beaten only by Viper and Carrera S).
The slalom test exposed a new champion - the Boxster S which beat the Elise and was faster through the slalom than an Enzo at 73.9mph.
Best lap of the circuit went to the C6 with Viper, carrera, Boxster, Elise, SLK350, S2000, Z4 and 350Z following over a 4 second diffential period. However, the C6 relied on it's electronics, it's handling being described as "capricious", with Competition Mode providing the best time, allowing the power to be got down earlier. "With the entire system turned off, the C6 suddemly becomes intimidating because the rear end breaks loose almost willingly and in other conditions, the car understeers"
So overall, I think it fair to say that all the testers preferred the Porsches but in terms of capability and bang for the buck, the Vette has no peers (except for a C5 Z06 of course). The question is whether that remains true when comparing the price of a Euro C6 to a Euro Porsche when the duties payable on the Vette bring the Porsches a tad closer.
Cars involved: C6, carrera S, Boxster S, Elise, S2000, Viper, Z4, SLK350
Some interesting stats for the C6:
0-60 in 4.5 and 1/4 in 12.8 @ 114.5mph (beaten only by Viper and Carrera S).
The slalom test exposed a new champion - the Boxster S which beat the Elise and was faster through the slalom than an Enzo at 73.9mph.
Best lap of the circuit went to the C6 with Viper, carrera, Boxster, Elise, SLK350, S2000, Z4 and 350Z following over a 4 second diffential period. However, the C6 relied on it's electronics, it's handling being described as "capricious", with Competition Mode providing the best time, allowing the power to be got down earlier. "With the entire system turned off, the C6 suddemly becomes intimidating because the rear end breaks loose almost willingly and in other conditions, the car understeers"
So overall, I think it fair to say that all the testers preferred the Porsches but in terms of capability and bang for the buck, the Vette has no peers (except for a C5 Z06 of course). The question is whether that remains true when comparing the price of a Euro C6 to a Euro Porsche when the duties payable on the Vette bring the Porsches a tad closer.
Cars involved: C6, carrera S, Boxster S, Elise, S2000, Viper, Z4, SLK350
Some interesting stats for the C6:
0-60 in 4.5 and 1/4 in 12.8 @ 114.5mph (beaten only by Viper and Carrera S).
Everything is relative. Too bad they didn't put them all up against the Noble 3R. According to Car & Driver: 0-60 in 3.3, 0-100 in 8.1, 1/4 mile in 11.8. They'd look even slower compared to the M400......:-)
Noble AIN'T a daily driver...not unless you're married to a chiropractor or commute by train!!! 
As for the 'vette - great performance for the money, but what's the tactility, feedback, and overall poise like??? And how would it cope on UK roads, as opposed to the glass-smooth track and US-roads?
Not meaning to denigrate the result - it deserves it...for the US market, which is a very different proposition to the UK, and even to the rest of Europe (where the roads are better).
As for the 'vette - great performance for the money, but what's the tactility, feedback, and overall poise like??? And how would it cope on UK roads, as opposed to the glass-smooth track and US-roads?
Not meaning to denigrate the result - it deserves it...for the US market, which is a very different proposition to the UK, and even to the rest of Europe (where the roads are better).
caccobra said:
Cars involved: C6, carrera S, Boxster S, Elise, S2000, Viper, Z4, SLK350
Some interesting stats for the C6:
0-60 in 4.5 and 1/4 in 12.8 @ 114.5mph (beaten only by Viper and Carrera S).
Everything is relative. Too bad they didn't put them all up against the Noble 3R. According to Car & Driver: 0-60 in 3.3, 0-100 in 8.1, 1/4 mile in 11.8. They'd look even slower compared to the M400......:-)
The point they made about the Elise is "it isn't for everyone. It's not for those who need an everyday car nor people with hereditary back problems or bigger than average frames". They go on to say that despite it's unrivalled aptitude on track, "it is the anti-Christ when it comes to grand touring with more creature than comfort and poor ride quality".
What this tells you is that the Americans do not perceive a sports car in terms of ultimate abilities. To put that another way, many cars will do everything an Elise can do about 90% of the time so the car is better than the Elise for 90% of the time you're driving it. Only in terms of extending those parameters to ultimate ability does the Elise shine. Just using the Elise as a yardstick example here, rather than anything else. In America, longer distances are the norm. Obviously, the Noble doesn't comply with US regs so has to be sold there without an engine and transaxle so they couldn't really test it.
I should also point out that even without the engine and transaxle, the Noble M12 sells in the US for $56700 whereas the Vette sells for a base price of $43445 and even optioned up, like the test car, still only cost $53000. So the Noble might be fast but wouldn't win either on the basis of it's cost.
>> Edited by LuS1fer on Thursday 10th February 13:53
Quote:
"I should also point out that even without the engine and transaxle, the Noble M12 sells in the US for $56700 whereas the Vette sells for a base price of $43445 and even optioned up, like the test car, still only cost $53000. So the Noble might be fast but wouldn't win either on the basis of it's cost."
Hey, they compared the Corvette to the Viper didn't they? That's in the same price range as the Noble. Corvettes are a dime a dozen in the States. A lot of bang for the buck, no question and no argument there, but can't hold it's own with a Noble unless boost is added and then you are no longer a factory prepared car and it will still lose in a corner. Gotta remember the Noble only has a 3 litre V6, so the fact that it can blow the doors off everything they tested priced below it or above it and also outrun any one of them in a corner is quite remarkable.
I've owned a lot of Corvettes over the years including one that I had for 37 years, so I am not speaking from ignorance about them. I have restored them from the ground up, judged them for NCRS and owned everything from a C-1 to a C-5. The Noble is in another class and can run with cars that cost 4-5 times what it does. If cost isn't a limiting factor to the Noble, why is it a limiting factor for the Corvette? Don't get me wrong. I love Corvettes. But don't be thinking it is the best thing out there. It's a very nice, civilized sports car that appeals to a large audience and they make about 50,000/year. It can do a lot of things well, but from experience I can tell you that the Noble does them all better and, because they are hand built, the fit and finish is better too. If you doubt any of this, go see one and drive one for yourself and then compare. That's usually all it takes.
"I should also point out that even without the engine and transaxle, the Noble M12 sells in the US for $56700 whereas the Vette sells for a base price of $43445 and even optioned up, like the test car, still only cost $53000. So the Noble might be fast but wouldn't win either on the basis of it's cost."
Hey, they compared the Corvette to the Viper didn't they? That's in the same price range as the Noble. Corvettes are a dime a dozen in the States. A lot of bang for the buck, no question and no argument there, but can't hold it's own with a Noble unless boost is added and then you are no longer a factory prepared car and it will still lose in a corner. Gotta remember the Noble only has a 3 litre V6, so the fact that it can blow the doors off everything they tested priced below it or above it and also outrun any one of them in a corner is quite remarkable.
I've owned a lot of Corvettes over the years including one that I had for 37 years, so I am not speaking from ignorance about them. I have restored them from the ground up, judged them for NCRS and owned everything from a C-1 to a C-5. The Noble is in another class and can run with cars that cost 4-5 times what it does. If cost isn't a limiting factor to the Noble, why is it a limiting factor for the Corvette? Don't get me wrong. I love Corvettes. But don't be thinking it is the best thing out there. It's a very nice, civilized sports car that appeals to a large audience and they make about 50,000/year. It can do a lot of things well, but from experience I can tell you that the Noble does them all better and, because they are hand built, the fit and finish is better too. If you doubt any of this, go see one and drive one for yourself and then compare. That's usually all it takes.
[quote=havoc]Noble AIN'T a daily driver...not unless you're married to a chiropractor or commute by train!!!
I don't think you will get the Noble owners in the UK that use them on a daily basis to agree with you. Actually, I'm 6'4" and I find it very comfortable to drive and it handles the terrible roads around here with ease. The suspension is incredible, since it can be driven on the street or track without making any changes to it. The M400 is a little stiffer because it was designed more for the track than the street, but is still a nice ride on public roads.
I don't think you will get the Noble owners in the UK that use them on a daily basis to agree with you. Actually, I'm 6'4" and I find it very comfortable to drive and it handles the terrible roads around here with ease. The suspension is incredible, since it can be driven on the street or track without making any changes to it. The M400 is a little stiffer because it was designed more for the track than the street, but is still a nice ride on public roads.
That's not what I said. I never said the Corvette was the best thing out there and neither did R&T's testers but they clearly took price into account in declaring it the winner (something the UK mags never do incidentally). So for that reason and that reason alone, having discounted both Porsches as the winner on the grounds of cost alone despite everyone saying they were the best cars there, I don't think the Noble would have won even if it is a million times better than the Vette....which I don't doubt. As for being better built, I have a Z06 so know the Vette is no paragon in that area.
However, whichever way you look at it, I think most people will buy the best car they can almost afford but also seek to minimise the total outlay unless they grow money on trees in their back garden. I suppose it all comes down to what you can strain to afford as well as how much you're willing to plough into a depreciating asset for those extra few few degrees of ability.
As for exclusivity, I would rather have an easy to maintain "exclusive" Vette in the UK with one dealer in the country than a complicated harder to maintain car in the US but that's a different issue and comes down to how much money you've got to fritter. LOL.
However, whichever way you look at it, I think most people will buy the best car they can almost afford but also seek to minimise the total outlay unless they grow money on trees in their back garden. I suppose it all comes down to what you can strain to afford as well as how much you're willing to plough into a depreciating asset for those extra few few degrees of ability.
As for exclusivity, I would rather have an easy to maintain "exclusive" Vette in the UK with one dealer in the country than a complicated harder to maintain car in the US but that's a different issue and comes down to how much money you've got to fritter. LOL.
Having driven all three I reckon the Vette's a better car on "A" roads and the Elise is a better car on "B" roads so the Porsche is stuck in the middle. Not my taste. Might as well go for the M3 and have 4 seats and a boot if middle of the road is your thing.
(The R&T test was for real cars that can be sold worldwide so kits, modifieds and specials weren't eligible.)
(The R&T test was for real cars that can be sold worldwide so kits, modifieds and specials weren't eligible.)
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