Winter Wheels/Tyres - are the worth it?

[911StuN]

Hi guys,

Long time forum stalker, first time poster!

I've recently managed to achieve a dream of mine and finally got my hands on a 911! Its a 2012 991 C2S and I LOVE it. Everything i'd hoped for

I've just had a 'health check' and a cool video at my local Porsche Centre just to give me an idea of the condition of the car (luckily its in good shape!). While I was there I was offered a a range of winter wheel and tyre packages.

What I'd like to know your opinions of these? Obviously I've not driven a 911 over winter yet - on a side note this is my only car so will be used all winter!

They seem really cheap, and I'd like to change the wheels to the 20 inch turbos anyway, so this seems like the most economic way?

The package they offered me was £3500 inclusive of VAT which is cheaper than the wheels on their own!

Is this too good to be true?

[DavidJG]

Depends on where you live, and how essential it is for you to drive regardless of weather.

On our two daily cars we fit winter tyres from November to April - but we're quite high up in hills, and we don't get gritted. Couple that with the need to go to work / shopping / take kids to GP etc and it's not worth skipping the winters. My 987 doesn't get winters, but it doesn't go out in bad weather.

If you live somewhere that's gritted properly, or can afford to stay in for a couple of days, probably not so important. Not sure I'd buy a package from a dealer though - for me, winter tyres go on a set of older rims whilst the nice shiny rims stay in the garage with the summer tyres on. Also check out oponeo / mytyres for online tyre costs compared to main dealer costs.

[popeyewhite]

I took them off my C2S as the winter tyres just made the handling very un-Porsche like and kind of ruined the experience. Of course winter tyres won't prevent the bonnet acting as a massive snow scoop!

[911StuN]

I live on the western edge of the Cotswolds, normally we're OK but I do rely on my car a lot. I was more interested in the improved grip levels you get in the colder temperatures, not necessarily driving through snow drifts!

I was thinking more buy the Turbo wheel/tyre package, swap my summer tyres (all 5-6mm treads) onto those rims and use my standard Carrera S wheels with the winter tyres.

[hondansx]

A few years back we got terrible snow in the South East. I had a Golf R as my daily driver and, with winter tyres, it was brilliant. I remember a huge queue on the M20 which i simply weaved in and out of - i was home about 5 mins later than normal yet i switched on the news the following morning to find a lot of people were still there on the M20 overnight!

So since then, naturally i have switched to winters November time. This has ranged from VW Tiguan, to Audi A5, to 997 C4. However, we've not had snow like it since and i've found a caveat to all tyres i've tried - lethal in the wet! Particularly under braking, i've had some seriously scary moments.

When it is ice cold and dry, they almost feel like slicks - they 'switch on'. As soon as you introduce rain, they are rubbish. I'm of course open to suggestions, but it's not like i went 'budget'; i went through the reviews each year and picked the winner each time!

[Trev450]

I started using winters on my CS about four years ago and wouldn't go back now. Once the temperature starts to fall below 7C they really come into their own giving much more grip in all conditions. They do take a good few hundred miles to start giving their best though.

[Oso]

hondansx said:

A few years back we got terrible snow in the South East. I had a Golf R as my daily driver and, with winter tyres, it was brilliant. I remember a huge queue on the M20 which i simply weaved in and out of - i was home about 5 mins later than normal yet i switched on the news the following morning to find a lot of people were still there on the M20 overnight!

So since then, naturally i have switched to winters November time. This has ranged from VW Tiguan, to Audi A5, to 997 C4. However, we've not had snow like it since and i've found a caveat to all tyres i've tried - lethal in the wet! Particularly under braking, i've had some seriously scary moments.

When it is ice cold and dry, they almost feel like slicks - they 'switch on'. As soon as you introduce rain, they are rubbish. I'm of course open to suggestions, but it's not like i went 'budget'; i went through the reviews each year and picked the winner each time!

I think this is about the softer rubber in winter tyres and how it performs at warmer ambient temperature in these conditions. If it is warmer than optimal for winter tyres the rubber gets softer than ideal which means the - heavily grooved and siped - tread blocks don't keep their shape as well under load and they are less efficient at clearing water. This is particularly noticeable in a heavy car under braking on a wet road. Hence I think perhaps your experience? I can sympathise.

In cold conditions, dry or wet, or on snow, it is a different story as you say.

The winter tyre question is a bit trickier down here in the south of England, I have found, where we have recently had quite warm, wet winters punctuated by cold snaps and the odd day of snow. This makes finding a tyre that is well suited for the whole winter rather more challenging. In places where it is consistently much colder e.g. Scotland where I grew up, it is an easier choice as it is cold enough throughout the winter for the winter tyres to work well.

Porsche would argue that this is a good reason to go for the 'N' rated winter tyres as they have worked with the manufacturer to make sure that the rubber compound and the tread pattern are suited to the balance and handling characteristics of the car.

[Oso]

911StuN said:

Hi guys,

Long time forum stalker, first time poster!

I've recently managed to achieve a dream of mine and finally got my hands on a 911! Its a 2012 991 C2S and I LOVE it. Everything i'd hoped for

I've just had a 'health check' and a cool video at my local Porsche Centre just to give me an idea of the condition of the car (luckily its in good shape!). While I was there I was offered a a range of winter wheel and tyre packages.

What I'd like to know your opinions of these? Obviously I've not driven a 911 over winter yet - on a side note this is my only car so will be used all winter!

They seem really cheap, and I'd like to change the wheels to the 20 inch turbos anyway, so this seems like the most economic way?

The package they offered me was £3500 inclusive of VAT which is cheaper than the wheels on their own!

Is this too good to be true?

As you say, the packages are good value if you want a new set of rims - they are effectively throwing in the tyres for free and you get the benefit of having them balanced at the factory.

But for the cost of the wheel/tyre package you are looking at pretty much three sets of tyres. If you are doing a lot of miles, you could possibly almost be as well, having worn out your summer tyres, (finish them off on a track day?), binning them for winters, wearing out the winters and binning them for summers etc.

Having a second set of rims only really makes sense if you are doing fairly limited miles, I have found, or don't want the PITA of changing the tyres on your existing rims every six months.

Also remember you will have to sell the rims when you come to change the car, which can be a bore...

All that said, it is well worthwhile IMHO running the 911 on winters in the colder months. Really makes a difference, especially if you're using it as your daily.

[popeyewhite]

Oso said:

Porsche would argue that this is a good reason to go for the 'N' rated winter tyres as they have worked with the manufacturer to make sure that the rubber compound and the tread pattern are suited to the balance and handling characteristics of the car.

...during wintry weather. Unfortunately though, if the temps rise and you have winters on they'll adversely affect handling. A shame in a car as precise as a 911.

[Oso]

popeyewhite said:

Oso said:

Porsche would argue that this is a good reason to go for the 'N' rated winter tyres as they have worked with the manufacturer to make sure that the rubber compound and the tread pattern are suited to the balance and handling characteristics of the car.

...during wintry weather. Unfortunately though, if the temps rise and you have winters on they'll adversely affect handling. A shame in a car as precise as a 911.

Indeed - I suppose that's another plus of having the winters on a second set of rims so you are not committed to running them all winter if the weather warms up a bit.

[BertBert]

I run Winters on a variety of cars and have never noticed a problem of poor traction in the wet. I even run winters all year round on my VW toerag - they are great and it saves having a spare set of eff-off big wheels in the shed (along with the other 3 sets!).
Bert

[sneakybear]

Aside grubbing up your new wheels in winter, another thing to consider is that profile changes will also affect the tyres performance. This is potentially more of an issue on winters where compliance is more useful.

I run two sets of wheels (18 winter/19 summer) and find it's much quicker to change 4 wheels than 4 tyres. A set of winters can last 2 winters also it's possible to get a new set when they're cheap(ish).

Getting winter tyres on the current rims and putting your summer tyres on the 20's you're after is the option I would choose.

ETA: But that's not the offer from OPC is it... forget the above

[popeyewhite]

Oso said:

Indeed - I suppose that's another plus of having the winters on a second set of rims so you are not committed to running them all winter if the weather warms up a bit.

Yes, probably the ideal scenario if you're quick with the tyre iron.

[ievans]

911StuN said:

Hi guys,

Long time forum stalker, first time poster!

I've recently managed to achieve a dream of mine and finally got my hands on a 911! Its a 2012 991 C2S and I LOVE it. Everything i'd hoped for

I've just had a 'health check' and a cool video at my local Porsche Centre just to give me an idea of the condition of the car (luckily its in good shape!). While I was there I was offered a a range of winter wheel and tyre packages.

What I'd like to know your opinions of these? Obviously I've not driven a 911 over winter yet - on a side note this is my only car so will be used all winter!

They seem really cheap, and I'd like to change the wheels to the 20 inch turbos anyway, so this seems like the most economic way?

The package they offered me was £3500 inclusive of VAT which is cheaper than the wheels on their own!

Is this too good to be true?

For new genuine wheels with tyres, £3500 doesn't sound too bad.

Winter tyres are a must where I live, many miles of un gritted roads until I reach civilisation..!

Winter tyres are not just for snow and ice, but they are designed to operate at their optimum below 7C, and they're also especially good in wet conditions, and way better than summer tyres.

For you, as its your only car, I'd suggest that winter tyres are a must.

[m444ttb]

I've been using winter tyres for the last 3 winters on my old BMW. I don't change until the temperature is consistently under 7C during my commute. If the road is dry I'd say they don't make a huge difference and you're more likely to notice the negatives if you push on with them. In anything from damp & greasy through to proper snow they have been fantastic. Traction and more importantly breaking all way better.

[911StuN]

After reading your comments, watching a few youtube videos (though made by Porsche themselves!) and umming and arghing... I've bitten the bullet and ordered them.

The Porsche Centre are swapping the tyres over FOC for me which is nice. Looking forward to summer to see my new wheels fitted now!

Thanks all for your help!

[nsm3]

How long before the EU/Brussels make it mandatory to fit winters, as in Germany I wonder?

[ORD]

nsm3 said:

How long before the EU/Brussels make it mandatory to fit winters, as in Germany I wonder?

Never. We don't have the weather for it in most of the UK.

[popeyewhite]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm assuming you don't live in the U.K with its recent mild winters? But what's really strange is that you say winters add to driving fun. Bizarre.

Car magazine finds winters negatively affect dynamics and switch back to summer's when it's a warm winter

"Month 4 running a BMW M5: our M5 is back on proper summer tyres
Not long after the snow melted, I took a gamble and switched the M5’s Pirelli Sottozero winter tyres back to the standard Michelin Pilot Super Sport 19s. The comments below generally urged me not to, but I wanted the car back to its best. The winter tyres were absolutely phenomenal in the snow, but it now looks highly likely that the little snow that we did have in Peterborough this winter has gone for good, and none of it would have seen me stranded had I had summer tyres anyway.
For the rest of the time, the temperatures have been unseasonably high, and so the Sottozeroes haven’t been able to shine. Instead they’ve reduced traction – I’ve been driving about with the traction control in the mid-way setting to give the rubber some leeway and save the power being constantly cut – and they’ve also introduced an element of sogginess to the M5’s handling. The tyres genuinely spoil the car’s dynamics, and I don’t think that’s right when you’re dealing with something as sporting as an M5.
The Michelins are now back on, the temperatures are getting even higher – my phone’s predicting a balmy 14degC on Thursday – and the handling is sharper and the traction is on a different planet. Clearly, the joke’s on me if it does snow but, come on, how bad can it be…"

[Mad March Taffy]

911StuN said:

After reading your comments, watching a few youtube videos (though made by Porsche themselves!) and umming and arghing... I've bitten the bullet and ordered them.

The Porsche Centre are swapping the tyres over FOC for me which is nice. Looking forward to summer to see my new wheels fitted now!

Thanks all for your help!

If I were spending £3.5K on some wheels I'd be expecting them to change the tyres FOC too!