Discussion
I spoke with the guys who recently serviced my C4s to check what oil they put in in case i need to top it up, so i can put the same oil in, they have used
Mobil Super 2000 X1 10W/40 Oil semi synthetic and having spoken to them they suggested this was a good oil for the car.
Now looking it up i can get 5ltrs for £28 in Halfords so it's quite a cheap oil
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluid...
Do others use this oil?
My car is a 2002 car so is on an annual service schedule anyway so it will be done at least once a year, maybe every 6 months as i really want to look after it.
So when it comes to an oil change do i replace with the above or do i use the more expensive Millers nanotech?
I'm quite happy to pay for the nanotech but what one???
this one is the same 10w40 and is even cheaper than the Mobil super
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-74220-millers-oils-nan...
This one is twice the price and is 10w50 which is a lot thicker than the recommended oil for the car but ive seen some on here mention it?
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-73733-millers-oils-nan...
But if i put my car details into the opie oils site it gives me this list, which contains none of the above.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-2354-lookup-results.as...
Can anyone give me some guidance on whats best, the car is a 2002 C4S and has 76k miles on the clock.
Mobil Super 2000 X1 10W/40 Oil semi synthetic and having spoken to them they suggested this was a good oil for the car.
Now looking it up i can get 5ltrs for £28 in Halfords so it's quite a cheap oil
http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluid...
Do others use this oil?
My car is a 2002 car so is on an annual service schedule anyway so it will be done at least once a year, maybe every 6 months as i really want to look after it.
So when it comes to an oil change do i replace with the above or do i use the more expensive Millers nanotech?
I'm quite happy to pay for the nanotech but what one???
this one is the same 10w40 and is even cheaper than the Mobil super
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-74220-millers-oils-nan...
This one is twice the price and is 10w50 which is a lot thicker than the recommended oil for the car but ive seen some on here mention it?
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-73733-millers-oils-nan...
But if i put my car details into the opie oils site it gives me this list, which contains none of the above.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-2354-lookup-results.as...
Can anyone give me some guidance on whats best, the car is a 2002 C4S and has 76k miles on the clock.
Trev450 said:
Personally, I like to put in as a good a quality oil as I can once the miles start to increase. I use Millers CFS 5W/40 which is not cheap but comes recommended by Hartech, and that's good enough for me.
I was told millers 10w 50 by Hartech for my gen 1 997 c4s this month so maybe they are favouring an even thicker Oil as I quoted earlier..harleywilma said:
Trev450 said:
Personally, I like to put in as a good a quality oil as I can once the miles start to increase. I use Millers CFS 5W/40 which is not cheap but comes recommended by Hartech, and that's good enough for me.
I was told millers 10w 50 by Hartech for my gen 1 997 c4s this month so maybe they are favouring an even thicker Oil as I quoted earlier..Budflicker said:
I spoke with the guys who recently serviced my C4s to check what oil they put in in case i need to top it up, so i can put the same oil in, they have used
Mobil Super 2000 X1 10W/40 Oil semi synthetic and having spoken to them they suggested this was a good oil for the car.
I use it, and it has a good reputation - it used to be called Super S - and it's only 24 GBP from Opie.Mobil Super 2000 X1 10W/40 Oil semi synthetic and having spoken to them they suggested this was a good oil for the car.
Budflicker said:
My car is a 2002 car so is on an annual service schedule anyway so it will be done at least once a year, maybe every 6 months as i really want to look after it.
Then a semi-synthetic will be perfect. The real advantage of a full (proper) synthetic is that it protects better at extremes (do you track the car?) and it protects better for a longer period of time - i.e. the long-chain molecules break down slower than a semi.If you are going to change every six months then a full synthetic is a waste of money.
Budflicker said:
Can anyone give me some guidance on whats best, the car is a 2002 C4S and has 76k miles on the clock.
If you are going to track the car, or drive at high speed across continents, (or your engine-builder tells you to) then there is an argument for putting in a 50 'weight' oil, as that will protect the engine better under those circumstances.But your engine was designed for a 40 'weight' oil (at operating temperatures) so if you put in a thicker oil, all you will be doing is making the engine work harder and be down on power.
We can argue about the cold-start weight if you like, but that would also depend on the ambient tempertures where you live?
I won't be tracking the car but I'm not shy on getting up the rev range where I can, this has been recommended to me on another forum
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-73732-millers-oils-nan...
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-73732-millers-oils-nan...
Indeed it is an excellent oil.
I used to use Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W40, which is also a proper full synthetic, and change it far too often.
Who does your servicing now, and did you ask them why they recommended a 10W40?
Just because one oil is cheaper than another, doesn't make it a poor choice for your car.
I used to use Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W40, which is also a proper full synthetic, and change it far too often.
Who does your servicing now, and did you ask them why they recommended a 10W40?
Just because one oil is cheaper than another, doesn't make it a poor choice for your car.
The car was serviced by Porsche Torque as part of the prep work carried out by 911 Virgin before I collected a few weeks back, I only checked what had been used so I knew what to top up with if I need to to avoid mixing different oils.
They just said this was better for a 996 with some miles on it.
I think I'll leave it in for 6 months and change to the millers nanotechnology 5w 40 or 10w 50 fully synthetic I probably won't do that many miles over the winter anyway.
They just said this was better for a 996 with some miles on it.
I think I'll leave it in for 6 months and change to the millers nanotechnology 5w 40 or 10w 50 fully synthetic I probably won't do that many miles over the winter anyway.
AFAIK -- I haven't checked for an updated approved oils list from Porsche -- but no 10w-XX or 15w-XX oil is approved for these engines. And no semi-synthetic oil either.
10w-40 is too "thick" at the cold end of the thermometer and there is the issue of will this effect the operation of the VarioCam system, the proper cold oil flow during and after cold engine start, and the lubrication of the valve lifter/cam lobes as these are splashed lubed and rely upon oil coming from around the bucket to lube the face of the bucket and the cam lobe that pushes against it to open and close the valve.
With all the talk about "bore scoring" I would think choosing a proper multi-viscosity grade of oil would be on the top of one's list.
Also on this note for anyone operating his Porsche in cold weather, Porsche says to use 0w-40 oil if temperatures are -25C or colder.
As for the engine needing a different viscosity of oil due to its miles that depends. If the oil pressure at hot idle is way low a heavier oil could be required but one should still stay in the approved oils group. There is a 5w-50 oil (not a typo for 15w-50!) available.
If the engine is really worn out a heavier oil is not the solution not even a real band-aid. The real solution is having the engine properly dealt with.
However, I don't think at 75K miles the engine is worn out or even real loose.
Both my 2002 Boxster -- now with 296k+ miles -- and my 2003 Turbo -- with over 138K miles -- are both just fine with 0w-40 oil. However, I have opted to use 5w-50 as it doesn't get very cold where I live and drive and yet it does get quite hot, with daytime summer temps in the triple digits.
However, neither engine appeared to be have any problems when filled with 0w-40 oil -- as occasionally happens if I'm away from my local dealer and have the car serviced at a distant dealer -- in even extreme high ambient and operating temperature conditions.
My advice is stick with an approved oil. Shun any dealer or shop that offers something else. The oil may not be that bad, but doesn't conform to what Porsche believes the oil should be. Furthermore, the oil recommendation may be based on what the shop gets "cheap" and thus has a better profit margin vs. that is truly the better oil.
To put it another way only Porsche has any authority in regards to what oil to use. If you chose to ignore this then you can choose any oil you want based on any criteria you want. Cheap. Pretty bottle. Local shop has oodles in stock. Whatever.
10w-40 is too "thick" at the cold end of the thermometer and there is the issue of will this effect the operation of the VarioCam system, the proper cold oil flow during and after cold engine start, and the lubrication of the valve lifter/cam lobes as these are splashed lubed and rely upon oil coming from around the bucket to lube the face of the bucket and the cam lobe that pushes against it to open and close the valve.
With all the talk about "bore scoring" I would think choosing a proper multi-viscosity grade of oil would be on the top of one's list.
Also on this note for anyone operating his Porsche in cold weather, Porsche says to use 0w-40 oil if temperatures are -25C or colder.
As for the engine needing a different viscosity of oil due to its miles that depends. If the oil pressure at hot idle is way low a heavier oil could be required but one should still stay in the approved oils group. There is a 5w-50 oil (not a typo for 15w-50!) available.
If the engine is really worn out a heavier oil is not the solution not even a real band-aid. The real solution is having the engine properly dealt with.
However, I don't think at 75K miles the engine is worn out or even real loose.
Both my 2002 Boxster -- now with 296k+ miles -- and my 2003 Turbo -- with over 138K miles -- are both just fine with 0w-40 oil. However, I have opted to use 5w-50 as it doesn't get very cold where I live and drive and yet it does get quite hot, with daytime summer temps in the triple digits.
However, neither engine appeared to be have any problems when filled with 0w-40 oil -- as occasionally happens if I'm away from my local dealer and have the car serviced at a distant dealer -- in even extreme high ambient and operating temperature conditions.
My advice is stick with an approved oil. Shun any dealer or shop that offers something else. The oil may not be that bad, but doesn't conform to what Porsche believes the oil should be. Furthermore, the oil recommendation may be based on what the shop gets "cheap" and thus has a better profit margin vs. that is truly the better oil.
To put it another way only Porsche has any authority in regards to what oil to use. If you chose to ignore this then you can choose any oil you want based on any criteria you want. Cheap. Pretty bottle. Local shop has oodles in stock. Whatever.
Wiser? There has been no 'wrong' answer, but if you want to be wiser you'll need to read up on oils, not take advice from random people on the interweb.
Porsche has already admitted it has got a lot wrong with these engines, so the last people I'd be taking any advice from is them.
If you want expert advice and you don't trust the people that sold you the car, ring Hartech as they know most about that engine, but as I said above the simple answer is that the engine is designed to run on a 40 'weight' oil in our climate.
Read up on 'viscosity index improvers, friction modifiers in multigrade oil' and then choose between 0W 5W and 10W.
And Rockster lives in a different climate from us, so each to his own.
Porsche has already admitted it has got a lot wrong with these engines, so the last people I'd be taking any advice from is them.
If you want expert advice and you don't trust the people that sold you the car, ring Hartech as they know most about that engine, but as I said above the simple answer is that the engine is designed to run on a 40 'weight' oil in our climate.
Read up on 'viscosity index improvers, friction modifiers in multigrade oil' and then choose between 0W 5W and 10W.
And Rockster lives in a different climate from us, so each to his own.
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 4th November 20:41
Orangecurry said:
Wiser?
If you want expert advice and you don't trust the people that sold you the car, ring Hartech as they know most about that engine, but as I said above the simple answer is that the engine is designed to run on a 40 'weight' oil in our climate.
Read up on 'viscosity index improvers, friction modifiers in multigrade oil' and then choose between 0W 5W and 10W.
Totally agree with regards to Hartech being the ones to talk to but I live in Kent and they are too far away from me, otherwise I'd be straight on the lifetime maintenance plan, as I'm not going to be their customer, well unless it goes bang, I don't want to waste their time on the phone, I imagine they get enough brain picking free advice phone calls as it is.If you want expert advice and you don't trust the people that sold you the car, ring Hartech as they know most about that engine, but as I said above the simple answer is that the engine is designed to run on a 40 'weight' oil in our climate.
Read up on 'viscosity index improvers, friction modifiers in multigrade oil' and then choose between 0W 5W and 10W.
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 4th November 20:41
I thought someone on here must be on the lifetime plan and would know what went in?
Budflicker said:
Totally agree with regards to Hartech being the ones to talk to but I live in Kent and they are too far away from me, otherwise I'd be straight on the lifetime maintenance plan, as I'm not going to be their customer, well unless it goes bang, I don't want to waste their time on the phone, I imagine they get enough brain picking free advice phone calls as it is.
I thought someone on here must be on the lifetime plan and would know what went in?
I'm not on their lifetime plan (like you, I live too far away) but I did have my 2002 996 engine rebuilt by Hartech three years ago and they recommended CFS 10w50 NT. In fact, they specified it as a condition of the 2-year warranty so I've used it ever since.I thought someone on here must be on the lifetime plan and would know what went in?
I hope that helps.
So I bought a 997.1 6 months ago and went through the same process; this is my simply summary, for what it’s worth, but what I have learnt is everybody has an opinion on this:
So let’s start with the recommended oil, Mobile 1 0-40W, there is a group of people that would say stick with this, it’s what Porsche recommend, but then there is a group of people that say yes well it is what they recommend but that when the car is newer <50k miles, Porsche don’t say you should switch oils at a certain mileage but then there is no real mechanism for them to do this. But many people seem to think that switching to a thicker oil when the car is 50k miles + is a sensible thing as engine wear and so on means that a car many burn a fair bit of a very thin oil like 0-40W. Several well-known and highly regarded indy’s use Mobile S2000 10-40W, with the rational that it is a bit thicker and cars with 50k+ don’t need a thin fully synthetic oil.
Then lets add Hartech and the nano-oil’s into the mix, I have heard lots of positive things about miller oil and I personally buy into the idea that they are better, it just makes engineering sense, however the question is which one and are they worth it. My view is that they are worth the extra money but then with all the bore scoring chit chat probably most 997.1 drivers would agree.
Then to the two main types of millers, from my research the main two are 5-40W and 10-40W (although there are more), the main difference being (apart from the cost, the 5-40W is more expensive) the thickness. I have gone for the more expensive 5-40W (which from ebay is not too expensive) as I think the thinner oil protects better on start-up but if I found that the car was using oil (as it is thin) I was planning to switch to millers 10-40W. I am not sure 100% what hartect recommend as different people say different things but I would suggest considering if generally your car uses oil, if it does then go for the slightly thicker 10-40W but if not the thinner one might be better.
So let’s start with the recommended oil, Mobile 1 0-40W, there is a group of people that would say stick with this, it’s what Porsche recommend, but then there is a group of people that say yes well it is what they recommend but that when the car is newer <50k miles, Porsche don’t say you should switch oils at a certain mileage but then there is no real mechanism for them to do this. But many people seem to think that switching to a thicker oil when the car is 50k miles + is a sensible thing as engine wear and so on means that a car many burn a fair bit of a very thin oil like 0-40W. Several well-known and highly regarded indy’s use Mobile S2000 10-40W, with the rational that it is a bit thicker and cars with 50k+ don’t need a thin fully synthetic oil.
Then lets add Hartech and the nano-oil’s into the mix, I have heard lots of positive things about miller oil and I personally buy into the idea that they are better, it just makes engineering sense, however the question is which one and are they worth it. My view is that they are worth the extra money but then with all the bore scoring chit chat probably most 997.1 drivers would agree.
Then to the two main types of millers, from my research the main two are 5-40W and 10-40W (although there are more), the main difference being (apart from the cost, the 5-40W is more expensive) the thickness. I have gone for the more expensive 5-40W (which from ebay is not too expensive) as I think the thinner oil protects better on start-up but if I found that the car was using oil (as it is thin) I was planning to switch to millers 10-40W. I am not sure 100% what hartect recommend as different people say different things but I would suggest considering if generally your car uses oil, if it does then go for the slightly thicker 10-40W but if not the thinner one might be better.
When I bought my car (75,000-mile 3.6 996) it had Mobil 1 0W-40 "NewLife" oil in it (about 2000 miles old).
I immediately changed the oil to Millers Nanodrive 10W-50 myself and found some tiny bits of swarf in the Mobil1 (plus one slightly larger bit as well). Didn't look in filter; wish I had now.
With the Millers in my car starts much more quickly (less friction?) and a very slight rough-running zone (3000 rpm on light-medium throttle) has gone entirely. Tangible improvements and certainly a lot less worry about grinding engines for me; got be worth an extra £20-£30.
Given the issues with the M96/M97, I trust Hartech's advice over Porsche's.
HTH.
I immediately changed the oil to Millers Nanodrive 10W-50 myself and found some tiny bits of swarf in the Mobil1 (plus one slightly larger bit as well). Didn't look in filter; wish I had now.
With the Millers in my car starts much more quickly (less friction?) and a very slight rough-running zone (3000 rpm on light-medium throttle) has gone entirely. Tangible improvements and certainly a lot less worry about grinding engines for me; got be worth an extra £20-£30.
Given the issues with the M96/M97, I trust Hartech's advice over Porsche's.
HTH.
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