Porsche now implicated in VW dieselgate
Discussion
The 3.0d engine is now also implicated, used in the Cayenne.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34705604
Doesn't the panny also use this engine?
Not as many vehicles so doubt it will have a massive impact, but still not good.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34705604
Doesn't the panny also use this engine?
Not as many vehicles so doubt it will have a massive impact, but still not good.
Can't say I am surprised.
I read that only 2015 Cayenne Diesels are affected and find it very unlikely that this is the case.
Does anybody happen to know when Porsche first started selling Diesel Cayennes in the USA?
I suspect that most if not all Cayenne Diesels have this software but Porsche will only admit what the EPA can prove.
I read that only 2015 Cayenne Diesels are affected and find it very unlikely that this is the case.
Does anybody happen to know when Porsche first started selling Diesel Cayennes in the USA?
I suspect that most if not all Cayenne Diesels have this software but Porsche will only admit what the EPA can prove.
From the agency's website..
During stepped up testing of diesel models on the road, regulators discovered software in VW, Audi and Porsche models with 3.0-liter diesel engines that turns pollution-control equipment on only when the cars are in “temperature conditioning” mode that mirrors federal test conditions, the EPA said. In real-world driving, the controls are turned off, making the vehicles far more polluting than EPA standards.
The affected models are the 2014 Touareg, the 2015 Cayenne and the 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8, A8L and Q5. The vehicles’ emissions systems were rigged to turn off “one second” after government testing was complete, improving performance but causing nitrogen oxide emissions up to nine times the legal limit, Giles said.
VW “knew or should have known” that the vehicles had software installed that “bypasses, defeats or renders inoperative” emissions controls, the EPA said.
During stepped up testing of diesel models on the road, regulators discovered software in VW, Audi and Porsche models with 3.0-liter diesel engines that turns pollution-control equipment on only when the cars are in “temperature conditioning” mode that mirrors federal test conditions, the EPA said. In real-world driving, the controls are turned off, making the vehicles far more polluting than EPA standards.
The affected models are the 2014 Touareg, the 2015 Cayenne and the 2016 Audi A6 Quattro, A7 Quattro, A8, A8L and Q5. The vehicles’ emissions systems were rigged to turn off “one second” after government testing was complete, improving performance but causing nitrogen oxide emissions up to nine times the legal limit, Giles said.
VW “knew or should have known” that the vehicles had software installed that “bypasses, defeats or renders inoperative” emissions controls, the EPA said.
roygarth said:
My Audi A4 Allroad is effected and we have had a letter from VAG re. at some point it will be recalled.
When they change the software will the car emit less emissions? If so will it effect performance and/or economy of vehicle?
They will remove the software from the ECU that recognises when the car is being tested so it will emit its 'true' emissions - likely to be higher than what they say under normal driving. I doubt performance will be affected but I also think the real world economy is not usually as high as the manufacturers state anyway.If you didnt get the chance, watch Panorama on iplayer from last night I think that a Passat Blue motion under normal conditions was registering 3 times what the figures stated and some Opel car they had was so high the machine's emissions chart 'topped out'!!!When they change the software will the car emit less emissions? If so will it effect performance and/or economy of vehicle?
Realistically, believing that VW is the only brand involved in this is a little naive.
They are all at it. VW must have known that 'their' engine was not compliant. Any manufacturer would then buy a vehicle from a competitor whose engine was compliant and tear it apart to find out how they do it.......................
All the mistakes were made in 1988 anyway. We should have gone lean burn instead of catalyst and remained petrol instead of diesel........
They are all at it. VW must have known that 'their' engine was not compliant. Any manufacturer would then buy a vehicle from a competitor whose engine was compliant and tear it apart to find out how they do it.......................
All the mistakes were made in 1988 anyway. We should have gone lean burn instead of catalyst and remained petrol instead of diesel........
Bennachie said:
Realistically, believing that VW is the only brand involved in this is a little naive.
They are all at it. VW must have known that 'their' engine was not compliant. Any manufacturer would then buy a vehicle from a competitor whose engine was compliant and tear it apart to find out how they do it.......................
All the mistakes were made in 1988 anyway. We should have gone lean burn instead of catalyst and remained petrol instead of diesel........
Agreed totally.A chap I sit near at work is a good friend of one of the senior people at VW and they said they openly sell or exhange engines etc between manufacturers not just the group and as you point out they are all at it somewhere.They are all at it. VW must have known that 'their' engine was not compliant. Any manufacturer would then buy a vehicle from a competitor whose engine was compliant and tear it apart to find out how they do it.......................
All the mistakes were made in 1988 anyway. We should have gone lean burn instead of catalyst and remained petrol instead of diesel........
berty37 said:
Someone just sent me an article saying that emission scandal affects 13,000 Porsche Cayennes from 2013-2015. This snow ball is getting bigger!!
I am so tired of these salami-tactics — trickling out news bit by bit, week for week, always just after the stock markets have closed. Wonder what they will have in store for Friday 20:00 CET.Sadly those tactics appear to be working, stock is showing first signs of recovery despite yesterdays Audi & Porsche news.
EricE said:
I am so tired of these salami-tactics — trickling out news bit by bit, week for week, always just after the stock markets have closed. Wonder what they will have in store for Friday 20:00 CET.
Sadly those tactics appear to be working, stock is showing first signs of recovery despite yesterdays Audi & Porsche news.
Maybe it would of been best to totally hold your hands up from the beginning so the bad news is all out there. Surely just cant keep being up to the U.S or other bodies to be finding out about more models/engines affected - the group must now exactly whats been fitted to what and when.Sadly those tactics appear to be working, stock is showing first signs of recovery despite yesterdays Audi & Porsche news.
Bennachie said:
Realistically, believing that VW is the only brand involved in this is a little naive.
They are all at it. VW must have known that 'their' engine was not compliant. Any manufacturer would then buy a vehicle from a competitor whose engine was compliant and tear it apart to find out how they do it.......................
All the mistakes were made in 1988 anyway. We should have gone lean burn instead of catalyst and remained petrol instead of diesel........
As I understand it, VW were going to license technology from Daimler, but then pulled out and decided to They are all at it. VW must have known that 'their' engine was not compliant. Any manufacturer would then buy a vehicle from a competitor whose engine was compliant and tear it apart to find out how they do it.......................
All the mistakes were made in 1988 anyway. We should have gone lean burn instead of catalyst and remained petrol instead of diesel........
Anyway, it must be all b
k, as Porsche have been saying
"It's not an Audi, it's not at all, we get a few bits from them, but the engines are real Porsche engines with our special sauce and maps and all, no don't use the "A" word, we hardly even know them"
ever since they decided that rebadging SUV's was a perfect fit with being a sports car maker.
Now they are being forced to admit that it's just a boggo VW diesel, running the same dodgy software
k, as Porsche have been saying "It's not an Audi, it's not at all, we get a few bits from them, but the engines are real Porsche engines with our special sauce and maps and all, no don't use the "A" word, we hardly even know them"
ever since they decided that rebadging SUV's was a perfect fit with being a sports car maker.
Now they are being forced to admit that it's just a boggo VW diesel, running the same dodgy software
berty37 said:
roygarth said:
My Audi A4 Allroad is effected and we have had a letter from VAG re. at some point it will be recalled.
When they change the software will the car emit less emissions? If so will it effect performance and/or economy of vehicle?
They will remove the software from the ECU that recognises when the car is being tested so it will emit its 'true' emissions - likely to be higher than what they say under normal driving. I doubt performance will be affected but I also think the real world economy is not usually as high as the manufacturers state anyway.If you didnt get the chance, watch Panorama on iplayer from last night I think that a Passat Blue motion under normal conditions was registering 3 times what the figures stated and some Opel car they had was so high the machine's emissions chart 'topped out'!!!When they change the software will the car emit less emissions? If so will it effect performance and/or economy of vehicle?
roygarth said:
Why would they do something to make it emit more emissions? Why not leave it as it is? Or do you mean if it is tested again it will not cheat the test? But then whats the point of that as it will never be tested again?
Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. The device was installed that deliberately altered the emission output when it detected it was being in a test environment. Panorama showed more details such as the test runs for exactly 20 mins 20 secs the wheels are never turned so the car is in a straight line for 6 miles so the computer would detect its being tested. The cheat device would then automatically switch to lower the actual output. So it looks like its meeting Euro 6 levels but in real world driving - which they then did a test to replicate, the reality is the car's emissions would be nowhere near what is required. This is why the fines could be absolutely colossal. Edited by berty37 on Tuesday 24th November 13:36
AND the Opel was even worse............................
Got to admit its clever...........
Never been a great fan of DIE-easel, no matter how much torque they produce..
Lean burn was the way forward and who blocked it? Why the Americans of course because they went for high CO2 and a catalyst.......
Got to admit its clever...........
Never been a great fan of DIE-easel, no matter how much torque they produce..
Lean burn was the way forward and who blocked it? Why the Americans of course because they went for high CO2 and a catalyst.......
berty37 said:
roygarth said:
Why would they do something to make it emit more emissions? Why not leave it as it is? Or do you mean if it is tested again it will not cheat the test? But then whats the point of that as it will never be tested again?
Sorry maybe I wasn't clear. The device was installed that deliberately altered the emission output when it detected it was being in a test environment. Panorama showed more details such as the test runs for exactly 20 mins 20 secs the wheels are never turned so the car is in a straight line for 6 miles so the computer would detect its being tested. The cheat device would then automatically switch to lower the actual output. So it looks like its meeting Euro 6 levels but in real world driving - which they then did a test to replicate, the reality is the car's emissions would be nowhere near what is required. This is why the fines could be absolutely colossal. Edited by berty37 on Tuesday 24th November 13:36
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