Advice on going professional ?
Discussion
I am currently exploring the viability of me turning from a hobbyist to making money from photography, and I'd appreciate any advice especially on equipment please.
I currently run my own (non photography) business and it is such that I am in the fortunate position of making money from it but still having lots of time on my hands. Hence my thinking about photography.
If I do go down the photography route I have other sources of income so will not be dependent upon any income from photography, which is a real advantage. I will be looking to make enough to pay back any investment in the kit and a bit more.
My thinking is to get into photography around evening events, school photography, occasions and portraits (no plans for wedding photography). This is because I have connections to the school side and event side to build upon and kick start me off. However, other than watching others and researching on line I have no hands on experience of events or school photography so it would have to be a sharp learning curve if I do it.
I currently have a D5100, 055XPROB tripod, 50mm 1.8 prime, and a Nikon 18-140mm general purpose lens. I know I will need more kit!
I believe going to an FX camera would be better especially for the low light event shots. As such I was thinking about the D810, together with the 24-70mm 2.8G ED Nikon lens (they have a new VR one out apparently) and the 70-200 2.8G ED VR ii Nikon lens. I will keep the D5100 as a second camera.
What other equipment would I need from day 1, any other specific lens such as another prime maybe? I imagine lighting and background for starters?
Am I living in cloud cuckoo land even thinking of doing this, for example a lack of experience? Or should I pursue it with a reasonable hope of making a small profit each year? I can do the business plan, invoices, sales, marketing etc etc but I'd appreciate any advice from you people who have made your dream work for you, thanks.
I currently run my own (non photography) business and it is such that I am in the fortunate position of making money from it but still having lots of time on my hands. Hence my thinking about photography.
If I do go down the photography route I have other sources of income so will not be dependent upon any income from photography, which is a real advantage. I will be looking to make enough to pay back any investment in the kit and a bit more.
My thinking is to get into photography around evening events, school photography, occasions and portraits (no plans for wedding photography). This is because I have connections to the school side and event side to build upon and kick start me off. However, other than watching others and researching on line I have no hands on experience of events or school photography so it would have to be a sharp learning curve if I do it.
I currently have a D5100, 055XPROB tripod, 50mm 1.8 prime, and a Nikon 18-140mm general purpose lens. I know I will need more kit!
I believe going to an FX camera would be better especially for the low light event shots. As such I was thinking about the D810, together with the 24-70mm 2.8G ED Nikon lens (they have a new VR one out apparently) and the 70-200 2.8G ED VR ii Nikon lens. I will keep the D5100 as a second camera.
What other equipment would I need from day 1, any other specific lens such as another prime maybe? I imagine lighting and background for starters?
Am I living in cloud cuckoo land even thinking of doing this, for example a lack of experience? Or should I pursue it with a reasonable hope of making a small profit each year? I can do the business plan, invoices, sales, marketing etc etc but I'd appreciate any advice from you people who have made your dream work for you, thanks.
Well, you're throwing serious money at it but it will get you very good kit and you have the funds to afford it. Luckily although you say 'going professional' - which you are because people would be paying you - you don't need to earn an income. It's a nice track to have; I know someone who did exactly this - whilst having a day job he was very keen on photography, started with a D300 and worked his way up doing events (mostly concerts); he's now got the kit you're after and is very good. He absolutely loves it - but still has the day job!
Anything involving children will probably mean you need a CRB thingy.
You run your own business so should be OK with finding work, quoting and invoicing etc. But you will have new equipment that is more demanding and will need good techniques to get the best from, and you'll need to be comfortable as 'director' when taking photos of people. They will look to you for guidance.
I can't fault your kit choice; it's what I'd have if I was starting out with FX and money was no object. 200mm on FX isn't very long but you have so many pixels to spare you can crop closer. In addition I'd add a beefy Nikon Speedlight for mobile light. For portraits you'll need a background roll and frame (not expensive) and decent lighting - I prefer softboxes to brollies, but that's another discussion really.
Yes, it can work, as long as you can find the work and are confident using your kit. The moment you put the camera round your neck you will be 'The Expert' so don't let them down!
Anything involving children will probably mean you need a CRB thingy.
You run your own business so should be OK with finding work, quoting and invoicing etc. But you will have new equipment that is more demanding and will need good techniques to get the best from, and you'll need to be comfortable as 'director' when taking photos of people. They will look to you for guidance.
I can't fault your kit choice; it's what I'd have if I was starting out with FX and money was no object. 200mm on FX isn't very long but you have so many pixels to spare you can crop closer. In addition I'd add a beefy Nikon Speedlight for mobile light. For portraits you'll need a background roll and frame (not expensive) and decent lighting - I prefer softboxes to brollies, but that's another discussion really.
Yes, it can work, as long as you can find the work and are confident using your kit. The moment you put the camera round your neck you will be 'The Expert' so don't let them down!
Simpo Two said:
Well, you're throwing serious money at it but it will get you very good kit and you have the funds to afford it. Luckily although you say 'going professional' - which you are because people would be paying you - you don't need to earn an income. It's a nice track to have; I know someone who did exactly this - whilst having a day job he was very keen on photography, started with a D300 and worked his way up doing events (mostly concerts); he's now got the kit you're after and is very good. He absolutely loves it - but still has the day job!
Anything involving children will probably mean you need a CRB thingy.
You run your own business so should be OK with finding work, quoting and invoicing etc. But you will have new equipment that is more demanding and will need good techniques to get the best from, and you'll need to be comfortable as 'director' when taking photos of people. They will look to you for guidance.
I can't fault your kit choice; it's what I'd have if I was starting out with FX and money was no object. 200mm on FX isn't very long but you have so many pixels to spare you can crop closer. In addition I'd add a beefy Nikon Speedlight for mobile light. For portraits you'll need a background roll and frame (not expensive) and decent lighting - I prefer softboxes to brollies, but that's another discussion really.
Yes, it can work, as long as you can find the work and are confident using your kit. The moment you put the camera round your neck you will be 'The Expert' so don't let them down!
Great start, thanks for that Simpo, I appreciate it. Part of my draft business plan includes a train and learning spell for the equipment - I acknowledge my short comings!Anything involving children will probably mean you need a CRB thingy.
You run your own business so should be OK with finding work, quoting and invoicing etc. But you will have new equipment that is more demanding and will need good techniques to get the best from, and you'll need to be comfortable as 'director' when taking photos of people. They will look to you for guidance.
I can't fault your kit choice; it's what I'd have if I was starting out with FX and money was no object. 200mm on FX isn't very long but you have so many pixels to spare you can crop closer. In addition I'd add a beefy Nikon Speedlight for mobile light. For portraits you'll need a background roll and frame (not expensive) and decent lighting - I prefer softboxes to brollies, but that's another discussion really.
Yes, it can work, as long as you can find the work and are confident using your kit. The moment you put the camera round your neck you will be 'The Expert' so don't let them down!
This is purely business advice as oppose to photography advice:
Do you remember that film, Field of Dreams?
The message to Kevin Costner was 'Build it... and they will come.'.
In business, sadly, this is rubbish, and actually the opposite is true. By that I mean your problem is not buying the stuff, but how you will get the business. That will define whether you can get income.
I know someone in Bath who has £8k to £10k plus of gear. She's been published worldwide online with thousands of followers and an agent has chased her for photographing a particular niche (cat photos). She is lucky enough to have a very large and well appointed home studio in the centre of Bath.
She can't make money, despite the affluent and populated area as there's too much competition for too little paid work.
Do you remember that film, Field of Dreams?
The message to Kevin Costner was 'Build it... and they will come.'.
In business, sadly, this is rubbish, and actually the opposite is true. By that I mean your problem is not buying the stuff, but how you will get the business. That will define whether you can get income.
I know someone in Bath who has £8k to £10k plus of gear. She's been published worldwide online with thousands of followers and an agent has chased her for photographing a particular niche (cat photos). She is lucky enough to have a very large and well appointed home studio in the centre of Bath.
She can't make money, despite the affluent and populated area as there's too much competition for too little paid work.
Hardly anyone ever considers this, but hobbies are often hobbies for a reason, i.e. you love doing it in your downtime. Turning that into a job should not be taken lightly.
I wouldn't even shoot motorsport professionally (and unusually, had the opportunity to do so) because after a few experiences of it I realised it killed my enjoyment of it, shooting to spec etc. You will find me, happy, behind the fence thank you very much.
I wouldn't even shoot motorsport professionally (and unusually, had the opportunity to do so) because after a few experiences of it I realised it killed my enjoyment of it, shooting to spec etc. You will find me, happy, behind the fence thank you very much.
JustinP1 said:
stuff
Agreed. The OP's big advantage is that it's basically a break-even game; a paying hobby not a livelihood.Hobby - makes £2,000 a year - awesome.
Livelihood - makes £2,000 a year - disaster.
If he regards the investment as a write-off, then anything else is a bonus, and either way, he has some top end kit for his holidays. It's a nice position to be in.
One of my best friends has just given up professional photography (after more than 20 years) as there just wasn't money to be made any more.
He gave up weddings and functions quite a while back, but had carved a niche creating photographs for food packaging. Over the last couple of years that dried up because companies began doing it themselves - he readily admits that the quality of modern digital equipment is so good that he couldn't command enough of a premium for his professional services.
Sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear!
He gave up weddings and functions quite a while back, but had carved a niche creating photographs for food packaging. Over the last couple of years that dried up because companies began doing it themselves - he readily admits that the quality of modern digital equipment is so good that he couldn't command enough of a premium for his professional services.
Sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear!
Thanks up to now everybody, realism is welcome too, although as Simpo says this is more of a hobby that I get paid for rather than making a living from.
As with all business finding the paying customer is the real challenge, this is why i'm still making up my mind. Although having a reason to justify all that shiney stuff is very attractive!
As with all business finding the paying customer is the real challenge, this is why i'm still making up my mind. Although having a reason to justify all that shiney stuff is very attractive!
You can make money from professional photography - camera technology might have improved but people's understanding of the technical and creative qualities of photography hasn't.
Whilst getting pro spec gear is good - for events I'd say you're better off buying 2 D750's instead of 1 D810 (you don't need that kind of resolution and the D750 has just as good if not better low light capability). Then invest in glass - lots of glass and lighting.
What will bring money in is demonstration of creative and technical skill, not just the equipment you turn up with. So if you have managed to build that up during your hobby time then all good, get a business plan together, understand your market and price yourself according to the value you bring.
Whilst getting pro spec gear is good - for events I'd say you're better off buying 2 D750's instead of 1 D810 (you don't need that kind of resolution and the D750 has just as good if not better low light capability). Then invest in glass - lots of glass and lighting.
What will bring money in is demonstration of creative and technical skill, not just the equipment you turn up with. So if you have managed to build that up during your hobby time then all good, get a business plan together, understand your market and price yourself according to the value you bring.
I agree with Kman, a D750 would be a much better fit for the type of photography that you've mentioned. The money saved could then go towards a dye sub printer so that you can sell prints on the night at events. You'll miss out on a lot of spur of the moment sales if you can't sell prints there and then.
Making a living from photography isn't easy, but is definitely possible. Just making money to cover kit and give a bit of pocket money is a lot easier, but you've still got to be smart about it otherwise you'll find yourself putting in far too many hours for the return you achieve. Also make sure the types of jobs you'd be doing are ones you generally enjoy, otherwise you won't stick at it.
Making a living from photography isn't easy, but is definitely possible. Just making money to cover kit and give a bit of pocket money is a lot easier, but you've still got to be smart about it otherwise you'll find yourself putting in far too many hours for the return you achieve. Also make sure the types of jobs you'd be doing are ones you generally enjoy, otherwise you won't stick at it.
I would build up your client base first and then invest in gear. If you are going to use lighting then you do not need a a D810 as what you have is sufficient. If you are doing events and working in low lighting then you either need a camera good at low res or a fast prime and good skills.
The biggest question is if your skills are worth paying real money for (I have no idea) and then finding what to shoot. I personally shoot cycling and triathlon on a global basis which is a nice niche. I also shoot commercial portraits and the very occasional wedding (I used to do that full time).
I would not buy kit you don't need. Lighting is expensive for the good stuff and you have to know how to use it. Also be able to work your camera inside out in case there is an issue. Extra bodies are always nice and decent computer power to edit. It is hard to make money with so many people shooting for nothing seemingly. But good luck!
The biggest question is if your skills are worth paying real money for (I have no idea) and then finding what to shoot. I personally shoot cycling and triathlon on a global basis which is a nice niche. I also shoot commercial portraits and the very occasional wedding (I used to do that full time).
I would not buy kit you don't need. Lighting is expensive for the good stuff and you have to know how to use it. Also be able to work your camera inside out in case there is an issue. Extra bodies are always nice and decent computer power to edit. It is hard to make money with so many people shooting for nothing seemingly. But good luck!
steveatesh said:
Thanks up to now everybody, realism is welcome too, although as Simpo says this is more of a hobby that I get paid for rather than making a living from.
As with all business finding the paying customer is the real challenge, this is why i'm still making up my mind. Although having a reason to justify all that shiney stuff is very attractive!
It's mostly bAs with all business finding the paying customer is the real challenge, this is why i'm still making up my mind. Although having a reason to justify all that shiney stuff is very attractive!
ks though. The equipment isnt going to be the main thing limiting you. The contacts who'll pay money is the limitation. Everyone will expect something for free. 99.999999999999% of people will offer you exposure and credit. Sometimes that's not a bad thing, sometimes you need credit and exposure, but when you dont, you'll want money. There's a general feeling in the photography world that punters dont get it. They do get it, but a lot of togs bang on about how great they are, writing long facebook posts about their value. 'When will people understand????' they'll say, and post things like 'if you think I'm expensive, wait til you hire an amateur'
They really should be out shooting paid gigs rather than b
hing on facebookBuild up the contacts, find your sweetspot. IF you just want to submit to Shutterstock and see what happens they have this rule of having to have a certain camera body before they'll let you submit. Make your own mind up about that.
I did a good turn for a while doing corporate headshots, the odd actor and a bit of portfolio stuff for people. Dont bother now, didnt need the money as such and wanted to do other things with my time. No-one gave a s
t what the model number was on my camera. A few people asked whether I liked Nikon and they had a Canon or something, but for the most part, the end result was what they were interested in. I was never one for following the photography rules strictly, mainly because they're limiting. In photography school, for portraits, the one lesson I went to said everything should be f/11 @ 1/125th. I didnt make it past that. I'm happy knowing the rules, and knowing where to bend, break or stick. Many photographers will give over wooden photos to clients because they're technically good photos. The 2 frames before with the great expressions get overlooked because they were slightly dark or not quite on a fibonnaci point or something.
I'd rather do a few little gigs than big one offs, but that's just me. I've seen wedding photographers businesses fall apart because they didnt have deposits and had a load of cancellations when money got tight.
Expect 90+% of your time to not be behind a camera at all, or anywhere near one.
Edited by andy-xr on Monday 9th November 14:00
Finding work thats enjoyable is the tricky part - Although shooting school pics might be quite lucrative, I could think of nothing worse than basically taking the same shot day after day, as well as having to deal with kids all day long...
Thats the trouble with photography, the creative stuff i.e. the type of photography that makes most people pick up a camera in the first place, doesn't really pay the bills; and if your shooting to a brief your shooting what the client wants.
Thats the trouble with photography, the creative stuff i.e. the type of photography that makes most people pick up a camera in the first place, doesn't really pay the bills; and if your shooting to a brief your shooting what the client wants.
A few points.
I'd agree that turning a hobby into a job does often 'taint' ones enjoyment. I turned down the opportunity to go to the National Film School as music had already been somewhat ruined for me and I didn't want to see films as I listen to music. (With an annoying 'professional' ear).
I earn 95% of my money from music, but am also officially a pro photographer - however, I refuse to do commissions, limiting my earnings to selling images I have already taken. This stops the job becoming 'work'. It's always on my terms.
As you are (by the sound of it) in a similar situation, you might consider this approach.
Lastly, as I assume you are also VAT registered... once you become 'pro', not only can you claim VAT back on all new kit, but also on all kit you already own for which you have receipts.
HTH
I'd agree that turning a hobby into a job does often 'taint' ones enjoyment. I turned down the opportunity to go to the National Film School as music had already been somewhat ruined for me and I didn't want to see films as I listen to music. (With an annoying 'professional' ear).
I earn 95% of my money from music, but am also officially a pro photographer - however, I refuse to do commissions, limiting my earnings to selling images I have already taken. This stops the job becoming 'work'. It's always on my terms.
As you are (by the sound of it) in a similar situation, you might consider this approach.
Lastly, as I assume you are also VAT registered... once you become 'pro', not only can you claim VAT back on all new kit, but also on all kit you already own for which you have receipts.
HTH
GetCarter said:
Lastly, as I assume you are also VAT registered... once you become 'pro', not only can you claim VAT back on all new kit, but also on all kit you already own for which you have receipts
If he's a VAT registered sole trader he'll have to charge VAT on all his photography too, because it's the person that's registered.If his other business is a limited company then he has the choice. He will be able to reclaim VAT on purchases but he will also become 20% more expensive.
Identify your market
Build a portfolio aimed at the market
find possible clients/events
figure out your costs and charges
get pro gear and backup gear
get insurance
figure out what can go wrong
figure our what you will do about it
build a business proposition for clients
market to clients
get work, get signed contract covers both parties
do work, process, deliver results
$$$ profit
Build a portfolio aimed at the market
find possible clients/events
figure out your costs and charges
get pro gear and backup gear
get insurance
figure out what can go wrong
figure our what you will do about it
build a business proposition for clients
market to clients
get work, get signed contract covers both parties
do work, process, deliver results
$$$ profit
I can't offer any advise other that to give you a good story that may encourage.
4 years ago a friend of a friend put us on to a lady who was starting up as a photographer. We had just has our little boy and wanted some photo's, so we spoke to her and she was charging £150 for as many photo's as she took in an hour. with a select few (10 i think that she would photoshop properly) so we booked and went to her home. where she turned her living room into a studio and we got some great pictures from it.
Roll forward 4 years and she now has her own studio, runs courses and is booked fully about 2 months in advance, now charges £350 for a session. But specializes in baby, newborn and pregnancy photography.
It was her hobby that she decided to have a go at. So it's possible.
4 years ago a friend of a friend put us on to a lady who was starting up as a photographer. We had just has our little boy and wanted some photo's, so we spoke to her and she was charging £150 for as many photo's as she took in an hour. with a select few (10 i think that she would photoshop properly) so we booked and went to her home. where she turned her living room into a studio and we got some great pictures from it.
Roll forward 4 years and she now has her own studio, runs courses and is booked fully about 2 months in advance, now charges £350 for a session. But specializes in baby, newborn and pregnancy photography.
It was her hobby that she decided to have a go at. So it's possible.
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