Is This The New AJP8?

[ChimpOnGas]

Is Ford’s "Voodoo" flat plane crank 5.2L V8 the new AJP8?

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/06/ford-drop...

Discuss

[gruffalo]

It is a nice engine but I thought it was the softer Version that was Being used.

[ChimpOnGas]

The naturally aspirated flat-plane crank Voodoo delivers 526 horsepower and 429 ft/lb of torque straight out of the box.



It achieves it with this little lot....

Crankshaft
Connecting rods attach to the flat-plane crank at 180-degree intervals versus a normal V-8’s 90 degrees. A carefully tuned crankshaft damper helps manage the vibrations, and holes drilled throughout reduce weight. Both the crank and rods are made of forged steel; the pistons are constructed of forged aluminum.

Block
The reinforced aluminum block has the same bore spacing and deck height as the 5.0, but 94-by-93-millimeter bore-and-stroke dimensions yield 5163 cubic centimeters (or 315 cubic inches) of displacement. Voodoo’s larger bores necessitate plasma-transferred wire-arc cylinder surfaces instead of Coyote’s iron liners.

Heads
Optimized the aluminum 32-valve top end for high-rpm breathing and reduced mass. The hollow steel intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves are larger and more widely spaced than the 5.0’s, and are actuated by monster camshafts providing 14 millimeters of lift. Ford’s Ti-VCT variable valve timing helps manage the 12.0:1 compression ratio.

Fuel Delivery
Good old port injection

Intake
Long intake runners within the plastic manifold contribute to the engine’s broad power band, as do a gaping, 87-millimeter throttle body and a large-volume air filter.

It's also too wide to sit between our TVR chassis rails, so while on paper it could be the ideal Cerbera engine swap it wont be replacing the Chevy LS option in a hurry

You can see why Ford were happy gave away their 5.0 litre Coyote so easily to Les Edgar, they had the way more TVR like 5.2-liter flat-plane crankshaft Voodoo waiting in the background and won't be letting that one go so easily.

Shame really, while the 5.0 litre Coyote Les is working with work forms the basis for the new Voodoo, does Les have enough money to give to Cosworth to make his engine a match for this new flat-plane wonder from Ford?

[jammy_basturd]

I really can't work out how the engine in that picture has con-rods connected at 180 degrees?! Surely the V of the engine dictates the degree interval of the rods?

[phillpot]

one picture = thousand words.........................





Angle of the "V" makes no difference to the basic principle

Edited by phillpot on Tuesday 10th November 09:46

[FarmyardPants]

I suspect TVR will use the Voodoo in the "S" versions of the new cars. Or maybe they are going to use it and the Coyote is a smokescreen.

[SonicHedgeHog]

Would this be a viable replacement for the Rover V8? I know the LS is lovely, but it's been done and I always like to be different.

[HarryW]

jammy_basturd said:

I really can't work out how the engine in that picture has con-rods connected at 180 degrees?! Surely the V of the engine dictates the degree interval of the rods?

Just to add to the confusion, the ford is a 90deg V8 and the AJP8 was 75deg.......

[jamieduff1981]

jammy_basturd said:

I really can't work out how the engine in that picture has con-rods connected at 180 degrees?! Surely the V of the engine dictates the degree interval of the rods?

The number of cylinders dictates your options for crank angle spacing. It's 4 power strokes per revolution you need with an 8 cylinder engine. That could be an inline 8, a V8, W8, X8, H8 or flat 8. Whichever cylinder layout you choose you need the crank pins spaced 90, 180 or 360 degree apart to achieve this

[jammy_basturd]

Ahhhhh - I was looking at the wrong angle!

[ChimpOnGas]

FarmyardPants said:

I suspect TVR will use the Voodoo in the "S" versions of the new cars. Or maybe they are going to use it and the Coyote is a smokescreen.

This is exactly what I was thinking/hoping

As I've already said it's not an option for engine swaps in our TVRs due to the fact its too wide to sit between our narrow engine bay chassis rails, but for the new TVR its perfect!

I like FarmyardPants idea the Coyote is a smokescreen, the Voodoo is a special engine and the new TVR will be a special car..

Quite simply the new TVR must be light, and it absolutely needs this engine!

The flat plane crank follows the AJP8 lineage perfectly, come on Les... do the right thing and give the new TVR a touch of Voodoo mate

[HarryW]

ChimpOnGas said:

FarmyardPants said:

I suspect TVR will use the Voodoo in the "S" versions of the new cars. Or maybe they are going to use it and the Coyote is a smokescreen.

This is exactly what I was thinking/hoping

As I've already said it's not an option for engine swaps in our TVRs due to the fact its too wide to sit between our narrow engine bay chassis rails, but for the new TVR its perfect!

I like FarmyardPants idea the Coyote is a smokescreen, the Voodoo is a special engine and the new TVR will be a special car..

Quite simply the new TVR must be light, and it absolutely needs this engine!

The flat plane crank follows the AJP8 lineage perfectly, come on Les... do the right thing and give the new TVR a touch of Voodoo mate

I'm sort of on the same page. Not so sure Ford is ready to release it or the deals were done before the Vodoo was made public though.
However the Cosworth rework of the Coyote could do this whilst still keeping with the base 5ltr cylinders with different crank and cams. I'd like to think the work they are doing or have completed already would have been an exploration of the aftermarket kits already out there to understand the baseline potential then take it to another place. Looking forward to the next announcement, that must be due soon?

[ChimpOnGas]

Well worth a watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPFPtNDBNHM

[Englishman]

HarryW said:

Not so sure Ford is ready to release it

Indeed. I suspect TVR would have been delighted to use this engine and it would be a great match for the new car.

But why would Ford (or any other manufacturer) release their new engine to any third-party before they'd sold cars with it in? I suspect TVR will bite Ford's hand off when they do make it available though, but unlikely to be for several years I suspect.

[ChimpOnGas]

Englishman said:

HarryW said:

Not so sure Ford is ready to release it

Indeed. I suspect TVR would have been delighted to use this engine and it would be a great match for the new car.

But why would Ford (or any other manufacturer) release their new engine to any third-party before they'd sold cars with it in? I suspect TVR will bite Ford's hand off when they do make it available though, but unlikely to be for several years I suspect.

Indeed, and a real shame

But lets see what Cosworth do with the 5.0 Coyote, and as we know the issue is not Cosworth's engineering abilities but how deep Les Edgar's pockets are.

Or more to the point how much margin is in the car at the proposed price point to allow Cosworth to work their magic.

The 5.2 Voodoo is after all built around a Coyote foundation, but I strongly suspect to do what Ford have done would be way beyond the budget of the new TVR project.

Given the budget it's highly likely Les needs to either get hold of the 5.2 Voodoo or be resigned to accept some small Cosworth breathing enhancements of the Coyote.

But we could just be left pleasantly surprised, we still have a lot of clever engineers here in the UK and a strong tradition of innovative engineering solutions delivered against all the financial odds.

The new TVR really deserves the 5.2 Voodoo but I too very much doubt Ford will have allowed it, so the real question is..

"What can Cosworth do to the 5.0 Coyote with the budget available to make it TVR Special"???

I really hope we see some proper plucky British underdog engineering innovation from Cosworth here, and that their involvement doesn't only amount to the marketing kudos Les Edgar is clearly enjoying from being able to say Cosworth were involved.

Cosworth, are you listening ... Your engineering heritage is at stake here so please make this engine something that showcases your history and reputation for engineering brilliance!

Here's a little reminder to give you some encouragement...

[FarmyardPants]

ChimpOnGas said:

Indeed, and a real shame

But lets see what Cosworth do with the 5.0 Coyote, and as we know the issue is not Cosworth's engineering abilities but how deep Les Edgar's pockets are.

Or more to the point how much margin is in the car at the proposed price point to allow Cosworth to work their magic.

The 5.2 Voodoo is after all built around a Coyote foundation, but I strongly suspect to do what Ford have done would be way beyond the budget of the new TVR project.

Given the budget it's highly likely Les needs to either get hold of the 5.2 Voodoo or be resigned to accept some small Cosworth breathing enhancements of the Coyote.

But we could just be left pleasantly surprised, we still have a lot of clever engineers here in the UK and a strong tradition of innovative engineering solutions delivered against all the financial odds.

The new TVR really deserves the 5.2 Voodoo but I too very much doubt Ford will have allowed it, so the real question is..

"What can Cosworth do to the 5.0 Coyote with the budget available to make it TVR Special"???

I really hope we see some proper plucky British underdog engineering innovation from Cosworth here, and that their involvement doesn't only amount to the marketing kudos Les Edgar is clearly enjoying from being able to say Cosworth were involved.

Cosworth, are you listening ... Your engineering heritage is at stake here so please make this engine something that showcases your history and reputation for engineering brilliance!

Here's a little reminder to give you some encouragement...

Quite agree, let's hope the Cosworth boffins eat something really potent before they breathe on the Coyote

I think output-wise it's got to start with a five. Any less than 500 ponies won't cut the mustard imo.

ChimpOnGas said:

Looks great and even has a CD player at the front

[ukkid35]

FarmyardPants said:

I think output-wise it's got to start with a five. Any less than 500 ponies won't cut the mustard imo.

I agree.

A 4.5 Cerb is approx 380bhp/ton. Assuming the new TVR will be about 1350kg then it will need at least 510bhp to be on par with the Cerb.

[rev-erend]

Englishman said:

HarryW said:

Not so sure Ford is ready to release it

Indeed. I suspect TVR would have been delighted to use this engine and it would be a great match for the new car.

But why would Ford (or any other manufacturer) release their new engine to any third-party before they'd sold cars with it in? I suspect TVR will bite Ford's hand off when they do make it available though, but unlikely to be for several years I suspect.

I seem to remember Lotus did it with Jensen (Healy) - and let them have the pain..

Will this engine actually work.

I do remember the scotch yoke engines.. seems similar.

Is anyone else running a similar layout in production ?

[FarmyardPants]

ukkid35 said:

FarmyardPants said:

I think output-wise it's got to start with a five. Any less than 500 ponies won't cut the mustard imo.

I agree.

A 4.5 Cerb is approx 380bhp/ton. Assuming the new TVR will be about 1350kg then it will need at least 510bhp to be on par with the Cerb.

Quite. And there's no way they can showcase something less pokey than the heritage models, that's the very definition of a backwards step for a company like TVR. In fact if I were Les I'd want a comfortable margin in that regard to avoid an embarrassing drag strip shootout humiliation. And with the extra stuff like ABS, TC and certain unavoidable safety measures like side impact protection etc, they're gonna be at a weight disadvantage as you point out with your 1350kg figure.

Then you could argue that if they're in the 500+ category they should beat the output of the Voodoo (if only to avoid the headline: New Cosworth TVR Engine Outgunned...by a Ford).

[jammy_basturd]

ukkid35 said:

FarmyardPants said:

I think output-wise it's got to start with a five. Any less than 500 ponies won't cut the mustard imo.

I agree.

A 4.5 Cerb is approx 380bhp/ton. Assuming the new TVR will be about 1350kg then it will need at least 510bhp to be on par with the Cerb.

Whilst I would love for the Cerb to be used as the yardstick for future TVRs, has anything been said that's points to that being the case? I would have thought something more on par with the Tuscan or Sagaris would be more likely. At least for the launch model.