Better value: Griffith or Chimaera?
Discussion
Speaking as someone who has owned both (not at the same time) I'm just throwing this out there for a bit of debate. Is it just me, or do others think that Griffith prices are getting to the point where it can no longer be considered an affordable classic? My feeling is that this is largely driven by the higher end of "the trade" stockpiling clean examples and asking crazy prizes (circa £27,000) because they can afford to sit on them and wait for someone with that kind of money. Choke supply and demand/prices will go up. Thats just the standard 500s. And as for the £75,000 so called LE no 100. Someones clearly taking the p**s here. Where as the Chimaera, built in greater numbers therefore in greater supply, thankfully remains affordable and represents much better value for money to the kind of enthusiast that will keep the marque alive. Pretty much the same spec of car can be had for a good few thousand pounds less. So to me the Chimaera represents better value for money at the current time. Any one disagree?
Agree with you on this, Chim is essentially the same car as the Griff but with a different body and a bigger boot so more practical and you can pick one up for a lot less than a Griff. Only problem is you end up with a chimp and not a Griff 
In all seriousness though it depends on your point of view on value I paid around 7k more for my Griff at the time compared to an equivalent Chim. Yes the Chim would have been better value at the time of sale but on the flip side the Griff has gone up more than the equivalent Chim so could be argued as better value in investment terms.
In all seriousness though it depends on your point of view on value I paid around 7k more for my Griff at the time compared to an equivalent Chim. Yes the Chim would have been better value at the time of sale but on the flip side the Griff has gone up more than the equivalent Chim so could be argued as better value in investment terms.
yep same underneath...... style over substance...... can you live with driving a chim, knowing that a Griff is considered the icon 
it's a bit like buying a watch with the same movement..... buy a no mark name with the same movement as an omega watch.... you'd take the omega
I paid a premium for the griff,,,,, but mine it was because it was the Griff that I remember going and seeing backed off the garages ay the TVR Centre in my early 20's...... I went hungover not really knowing what my mate was taking me to see, I feel in love there and then
it's a bit like buying a watch with the same movement..... buy a no mark name with the same movement as an omega watch.... you'd take the omega
I paid a premium for the griff,,,,, but mine it was because it was the Griff that I remember going and seeing backed off the garages ay the TVR Centre in my early 20's...... I went hungover not really knowing what my mate was taking me to see, I feel in love there and then
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and to me the Griff is stunning. The Chim still looks good, but is ordinary in comparison. This is a plus to some of course.
You need to make sure you are comparing like with like too when casually looking at prices, as many Chim's had the 4 litre engine. The 5 litre Chim's do make good money.
You need to make sure you are comparing like with like too when casually looking at prices, as many Chim's had the 4 litre engine. The 5 litre Chim's do make good money.
They are both great cars and not a lot to choose from, personal taste aside.
I like both cars and sometimes have a hankering for a griff but generally prefer the curves of the chim, obviously I am biased.
In all seriousness they are both good looking cars cars and a well presented chim will stand the test of time as well as other models.
You can't argue with a facelift chimaera!
I like both cars and sometimes have a hankering for a griff but generally prefer the curves of the chim, obviously I am biased.
In all seriousness they are both good looking cars cars and a well presented chim will stand the test of time as well as other models.
You can't argue with a facelift chimaera!
The answer to your question is that Chimaeras are clearly better value than Griffiths now. But Griffiths will always be worth more - you didn't marry your wife because she was good at housework. Chimaeras as a used buy were only "affordable" from about 2000-2010. For the rest of the time they were far from affordable in the sense that you mean I think but they were never meant to be particularly affordable.
It's my view that Griffiths in particular are currently undervalued and I expect them to catch up with Morgan +8s and come closer to Porsche 993 Carrerras over the next 5 years. I had been thinking of selling mine for something more useable all year round (like a bloomin' Porsche) but have decided to keep it - there is nothing out there like it. And instead of selling the Griffith I am collecting a Prodrive Brera S tomorrow as my daily driver. Yippee.
It's my view that Griffiths in particular are currently undervalued and I expect them to catch up with Morgan +8s and come closer to Porsche 993 Carrerras over the next 5 years. I had been thinking of selling mine for something more useable all year round (like a bloomin' Porsche) but have decided to keep it - there is nothing out there like it. And instead of selling the Griffith I am collecting a Prodrive Brera S tomorrow as my daily driver. Yippee.
There isn't a right or a wrong answer to this - it's down to personal taste, how much you use the car and what you use it for.
Griffvalues advertised resale prices have definitely risen more than Chim prices in recent years - supply and demand, scarcity, reputation, iconic status, plus inflated forecourt prices.
As said on previous threads, it would be interesting to see how much the cars actually sold for.
Also, the accountant in me wonders how much they have each risen in percentage terms - as you have to fork out more for the Griff in the first place, you could buy 3-4 Chims for the price of 2 Griffs, so the return on capital investment might me more similar than it would appear at first sight.
The point made above about most Chims for sale being 400s is well made - good 450s and 500s come up far less often, and do seem to have substantially higher price tags, but still nowhere near Griff prices.
After 3 years and 30,000 miles of Chimaera ownership I find myself liking both cars. Brothers in arms, so to speak.
I like the Griff front end, but prefer the style of the Chimaera bonnet. I prefer the Chimaera dash (marginally) and transmission tunnel top, much prefer the ease of fitting the Chimaera roof in the boot (only applies to later cars), and much prefer the later Chimaera 4 pot rear lights to any version of Griff rear lights. But I do think the side-profile of the Griff is superb, and the rear end is neat
And finally, if you do end up racking up the miles having grin-inducing fun, you have less value to kill in the Chimaera. Mine is now at 97,000 miles, so would be tricky to sell......so I won't!
Griff
As said on previous threads, it would be interesting to see how much the cars actually sold for.
Also, the accountant in me wonders how much they have each risen in percentage terms - as you have to fork out more for the Griff in the first place, you could buy 3-4 Chims for the price of 2 Griffs, so the return on capital investment might me more similar than it would appear at first sight.
The point made above about most Chims for sale being 400s is well made - good 450s and 500s come up far less often, and do seem to have substantially higher price tags, but still nowhere near Griff prices.
After 3 years and 30,000 miles of Chimaera ownership I find myself liking both cars. Brothers in arms, so to speak.
I like the Griff front end, but prefer the style of the Chimaera bonnet. I prefer the Chimaera dash (marginally) and transmission tunnel top, much prefer the ease of fitting the Chimaera roof in the boot (only applies to later cars), and much prefer the later Chimaera 4 pot rear lights to any version of Griff rear lights. But I do think the side-profile of the Griff is superb, and the rear end is neat
And finally, if you do end up racking up the miles having grin-inducing fun, you have less value to kill in the Chimaera. Mine is now at 97,000 miles, so would be tricky to sell......so I won't!
The Chimaera is better value.
It is the same car chassis and mechanically so the only obvious difference is the body style.
The Griff was produced in less numbers so rarity value also plays a part.
O.P,s original question "which is better value"
This depends on what you want a TVR for. As an investment the Griff seems better value, but the more you use it, the higher the mileage, then the less desirable to any future purchaser the car becomes.
This last statement applies to the Chimaera..... but your initial purchase price would be a lot less.
To me the main question is, when does the value of your Tvr become more important than using it?
Would i like a Griff....yes, but would i use it as much as i do my Chimaera, then the answer is no, because of the initial high purchase price.
I would love a Tuscan 2 soft top, but would i want to put high miles on it.....no. So this wouldnt get used as much as my Chimaera.
I can afford to buy a Chimaera and not worry about its future value. I can just drive it as it should be driven.
OP,s question "which is better value.......to put in the garage as a garage queen...The Griff.......To use as an everyday classic....THE CHIMAERA.
It is the same car chassis and mechanically so the only obvious difference is the body style.
The Griff was produced in less numbers so rarity value also plays a part.
O.P,s original question "which is better value"
This depends on what you want a TVR for. As an investment the Griff seems better value, but the more you use it, the higher the mileage, then the less desirable to any future purchaser the car becomes.
This last statement applies to the Chimaera..... but your initial purchase price would be a lot less.
To me the main question is, when does the value of your Tvr become more important than using it?
Would i like a Griff....yes, but would i use it as much as i do my Chimaera, then the answer is no, because of the initial high purchase price.
I would love a Tuscan 2 soft top, but would i want to put high miles on it.....no. So this wouldnt get used as much as my Chimaera.
I can afford to buy a Chimaera and not worry about its future value. I can just drive it as it should be driven.
OP,s question "which is better value.......to put in the garage as a garage queen...The Griff.......To use as an everyday classic....THE CHIMAERA.
if you compare (near) like for like..... (500 variants)
£27,995
Griffith 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
2000/W
37,900 miles
Halcyon Heather with Wedgewood/Prussian Blue full hide interior, navy wool...
TVR £27,995
Griffith 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1997/P
47,300 miles
Moonraker Black with Black half hide interior, crimson carpets piped...
TVR £25,995
Chimaera 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1998/S
15,500 miles
Amethyst with Magnolia/Biscuit half hide interior, magnolia carpets piped in...
TVR £25,995
Chimaera 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1999/T
24,600 miles
Imperial Blue with Magnolia half hide interior, prussian blue to...
TVR £22,995
Chimaera 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1998/R
55,000 miles
Starmist Blue with Doeskin full hide interior, prussian blue hide...
prices are quite close, from Fernhurst.
it depends what you want to do, keep the car a longtime,
or drive it a lot for a few years, then sell.
the costs of running should be identical, but the Griff, is more likely to hold it's value, vs a similar Chim 500 in same circumstances?
all though prices may stay higher, for Chim 500 variant?, vs 4.0,4.3,4.5's as there are less of them?
Never sell either, is the best option!
£27,995
Griffith 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
2000/W
37,900 miles
Halcyon Heather with Wedgewood/Prussian Blue full hide interior, navy wool...
TVR £27,995
Griffith 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1997/P
47,300 miles
Moonraker Black with Black half hide interior, crimson carpets piped...
TVR £25,995
Chimaera 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1998/S
15,500 miles
Amethyst with Magnolia/Biscuit half hide interior, magnolia carpets piped in...
TVR £25,995
Chimaera 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1999/T
24,600 miles
Imperial Blue with Magnolia half hide interior, prussian blue to...
TVR £22,995
Chimaera 500 ( 2 YEAR WARRANTY )
1998/R
55,000 miles
Starmist Blue with Doeskin full hide interior, prussian blue hide...
prices are quite close, from Fernhurst.
it depends what you want to do, keep the car a longtime,
or drive it a lot for a few years, then sell.
the costs of running should be identical, but the Griff, is more likely to hold it's value, vs a similar Chim 500 in same circumstances?
all though prices may stay higher, for Chim 500 variant?, vs 4.0,4.3,4.5's as there are less of them?
Never sell either, is the best option!
I've owned two Chimaera's before buying the Griff. Had both for a short time ('99 Chim and '92 Griff)
Griff initially seemed much more hardcore than the Chim. I think this was down to the tyres that had aged and gone hard which made both car, and me, very nervous! Replaced them after a nasty spin in the middle of winter last year and car is much improved although ride is still harder then the Chimaera.
T5 gearbox is better than the LT77.
Roof is far easier to stow in the Chim..particularly the later models
Styling is a personal thing. I like both...
For me the sound of the pre-cat makes it the best sounding TVR....ever!
As for value the Griff is the first car (of 50+ cars) that I have owned that has appreciated in value! At present I am struggling to hang on to it and have been tempted to move it on as it would fund another, more useable, set of wheels which are now needed. Also rare for me to hang onto to a car for a long time.
Do I regret selling the Chimaera to replace the Griff...No.
Would I regret selling the Griff...almost certainly!
Griff initially seemed much more hardcore than the Chim. I think this was down to the tyres that had aged and gone hard which made both car, and me, very nervous! Replaced them after a nasty spin in the middle of winter last year and car is much improved although ride is still harder then the Chimaera.
T5 gearbox is better than the LT77.
Roof is far easier to stow in the Chim..particularly the later models
Styling is a personal thing. I like both...
For me the sound of the pre-cat makes it the best sounding TVR....ever!
As for value the Griff is the first car (of 50+ cars) that I have owned that has appreciated in value! At present I am struggling to hang on to it and have been tempted to move it on as it would fund another, more useable, set of wheels which are now needed. Also rare for me to hang onto to a car for a long time.
Do I regret selling the Chimaera to replace the Griff...No.
Would I regret selling the Griff...almost certainly!
phazed said:
They are both great cars and not a lot to choose from, personal taste aside.
I like both cars and sometimes have a hankering for a griff but generally prefer the curves of the chim, obviously I am biased.
In all seriousness they are both good looking cars cars and a well presented chim will stand the test of time as well as other models.
You can't argue with a facelift chimaera!
I like both cars and sometimes have a hankering for a griff but generally prefer the curves of the chim, obviously I am biased.
In all seriousness they are both good looking cars cars and a well presented chim will stand the test of time as well as other models.
You can't argue with a facelift chimaera!
Nice car Peter. Face lifted has some looks of a Griff. Like your pictures of the 5.5 Litre in engine bay. I'm Seriously thinking of having a Lloyds Canams in mine early next year., mainly for smoother running and having a new loom. Starmist ocean haze colour (Indian Ocean blue/green) is a top choice color. Perfect. See my Griff in Profile.
According to Fernhurst prices I also need to increase my insurance agreed price with Carole Nash from 20K to a still conservative 23K. Mathew Poxom has more than doubled his money on his Griff.
In answer to the OP, yes, The Chimaera represents a bit of a classic bargain at the moment. [I've had two Griffiths]
This can be down to a few reasons the main being;
More were sold
4 engine variants [helping above]
There is some 'tat' still out there [with the bottom end being run on a shoestring and held together with the same]
Thankfully more people are spending money on them of late with many restorations going on and some people taking pride in what they have
Due to the numbers produced I think the Griffith will always have a premium price attached. Though myself, I think the Chimaera is aging better
Both great cars and I love all TVR's
This can be down to a few reasons the main being;
More were sold
4 engine variants [helping above]
There is some 'tat' still out there [with the bottom end being run on a shoestring and held together with the same]
Thankfully more people are spending money on them of late with many restorations going on and some people taking pride in what they have
Due to the numbers produced I think the Griffith will always have a premium price attached. Though myself, I think the Chimaera is aging better
Both great cars and I love all TVR's
The market dictates the price and for some looking at a British Icon and design award winner, a £30k Griffith with all its performance, is a perfect weekend car.
Look at Austin Healey's prices ....they have rocketed over the last 10 years. I think TVR prices in general will rise and £35-£40k for a well sorted Griffith LE - why not !
Look at Austin Healey's prices ....they have rocketed over the last 10 years. I think TVR prices in general will rise and £35-£40k for a well sorted Griffith LE - why not !
ESDavey said:
The market dictates the price and for some looking at a British Icon and design award winner, a £30k Griffith with all its performance, is a perfect weekend car.
Look at Austin Healey's prices ....they have rocketed over the last 10 years. I think TVR prices in general will rise and £35-£40k for a well sorted Griffith LE - why not !
At some point in the not too distant future Griffith prices will rise to what they originally cost to buy new. Great if you already have one, or want to sell yours, not so great if you want to buy one (which I will probably end up doing, knowing me!). Look at Austin Healey's prices ....they have rocketed over the last 10 years. I think TVR prices in general will rise and £35-£40k for a well sorted Griffith LE - why not !
Some great points being made here and I tend to agree with it all.
But the truth is for those with only got £10k in their pocket to squander on the frivolous purchase that is a hobby/weekend car, it may all be a bit irrelevant.
Because you aint getting a Griffith worth having with that kind of money
If on the other hand the funds are available to buy a Griffith then all you're doing is locking a bit more money up until you choose to sell.
Sticking rigidly to the financials for a minute the question is less about "Better value: Griffith or Chimaera?" and more about which model will deliver the greatest growth.
Griffith SE aside which lets face it is a special case, if you've been following the percentage rise in Griff vs Chimaera values you'll see there's actually nothing in it. Indeed in some cases the Chimaera has beaten the Griffith so it's not quite as cut and dried as the Griffith rarity thing might suggest.
To be honest I'd encourage people just to buy the car they prefer, and if they prefer the Griffith but don't quite have the funds... then for heavens sake buy yourself a Chimaera before they become out of reach too.
Back in the 90's when these cars were new I had many animated Griff vs Chimaera discussions with my old boss, in the end it was all fantasy because I didn't have the money to buy either so he was happy with his fantasy Griffith and I selected my fantasy Chimaera.
Back to the value for money and investment point, there's no getting away from the fact there's been a massive increase in the value of all classic cars over the last few years, and lots of them from the 90's (Porsche 911, Honda NSX ect ect).
Having all observed this stratospheric rise we now need to accept Chimaeras and Griffiths have been rather poor performers by comparison. But there's a new TVR on the way and nothing more than that will wake people up to the brand and get them seeing the 90's models for what they are... an absolute bargain in a sea of over inflated mid 90's sports car prices.
If the new TVR proves to be a success I predict great things for the value of our cars, but in a way that will be a shame because it'll exclude a whole bunch of people that deserve to experience them. Like the ridiculous rise in house prices has meant younger people are trapped in the rental market, the rise in TVR values will also mean the cars only get to be enjoyed by an aging generation with a few quid in the bank.
Just like Classic Minis, TVRs are for driving and should remain a classless car accessible to all, sadly I can't really see the fate of these cars doing anything other than becoming out of reach of most.
Shame really
But the truth is for those with only got £10k in their pocket to squander on the frivolous purchase that is a hobby/weekend car, it may all be a bit irrelevant.
Because you aint getting a Griffith worth having with that kind of money
If on the other hand the funds are available to buy a Griffith then all you're doing is locking a bit more money up until you choose to sell.
Sticking rigidly to the financials for a minute the question is less about "Better value: Griffith or Chimaera?" and more about which model will deliver the greatest growth.
Griffith SE aside which lets face it is a special case, if you've been following the percentage rise in Griff vs Chimaera values you'll see there's actually nothing in it. Indeed in some cases the Chimaera has beaten the Griffith so it's not quite as cut and dried as the Griffith rarity thing might suggest.
To be honest I'd encourage people just to buy the car they prefer, and if they prefer the Griffith but don't quite have the funds... then for heavens sake buy yourself a Chimaera before they become out of reach too.
Back in the 90's when these cars were new I had many animated Griff vs Chimaera discussions with my old boss, in the end it was all fantasy because I didn't have the money to buy either so he was happy with his fantasy Griffith and I selected my fantasy Chimaera.
Back to the value for money and investment point, there's no getting away from the fact there's been a massive increase in the value of all classic cars over the last few years, and lots of them from the 90's (Porsche 911, Honda NSX ect ect).
Having all observed this stratospheric rise we now need to accept Chimaeras and Griffiths have been rather poor performers by comparison. But there's a new TVR on the way and nothing more than that will wake people up to the brand and get them seeing the 90's models for what they are... an absolute bargain in a sea of over inflated mid 90's sports car prices.
If the new TVR proves to be a success I predict great things for the value of our cars, but in a way that will be a shame because it'll exclude a whole bunch of people that deserve to experience them. Like the ridiculous rise in house prices has meant younger people are trapped in the rental market, the rise in TVR values will also mean the cars only get to be enjoyed by an aging generation with a few quid in the bank.
Just like Classic Minis, TVRs are for driving and should remain a classless car accessible to all, sadly I can't really see the fate of these cars doing anything other than becoming out of reach of most.
Shame really
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 16th November 18:20
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