Fuelling on long rides?
Discussion
Sorry for the long post, but looking for some advice.
Never really had an issue before, but the last few rides I've done my energy has really tailed off towards the end. These are 60-80 mile training rides (road) at a fairly brisk pace (18+ mph). It seems obvious that I should be eating more due to the cold, but I haven't made a conscious effort to do this.
I've never followed a particular eating/drinking 'strategy' before, but as an example here's what I had on Sunday (mid-paced club ride with cafe stop half way).
Two slices of maltloaf (approx half a standard cake)
300 ml of cranberry juice (mixed with 300 ml water)
1 zipvit cola/caffeine gel (50g)
+ 1 latte and a two-egg butty at the cafe stop
Riding time was 5h20m (15mph average) but elapsed time was 7 hours due to waiting at top of climbs and a lengthy cafe stop.
I estimate the above intake is around 180g of carbs. Guidance is to aim for circa 60g per hour (1 g per 1kg of bodyweight per hour). Based on riding time this means I should be consuming 300g, or 400g if I include the non-riding time. By both estimates this sounds like a significant shortfall.
So, my main question is, is the carb rule of 1g per kg per hour accurate, and does energy dropping off towards the end of a ride should like a symptom of insufficient carbs (or just calories in general)?
The ride above was 80 miles and 6000ft (and windy!).
Never really had an issue before, but the last few rides I've done my energy has really tailed off towards the end. These are 60-80 mile training rides (road) at a fairly brisk pace (18+ mph). It seems obvious that I should be eating more due to the cold, but I haven't made a conscious effort to do this.
I've never followed a particular eating/drinking 'strategy' before, but as an example here's what I had on Sunday (mid-paced club ride with cafe stop half way).
Two slices of maltloaf (approx half a standard cake)
300 ml of cranberry juice (mixed with 300 ml water)
1 zipvit cola/caffeine gel (50g)
+ 1 latte and a two-egg butty at the cafe stop
Riding time was 5h20m (15mph average) but elapsed time was 7 hours due to waiting at top of climbs and a lengthy cafe stop.
I estimate the above intake is around 180g of carbs. Guidance is to aim for circa 60g per hour (1 g per 1kg of bodyweight per hour). Based on riding time this means I should be consuming 300g, or 400g if I include the non-riding time. By both estimates this sounds like a significant shortfall.
So, my main question is, is the carb rule of 1g per kg per hour accurate, and does energy dropping off towards the end of a ride should like a symptom of insufficient carbs (or just calories in general)?
The ride above was 80 miles and 6000ft (and windy!).
Don't have any specific recommendations, IMHO this stuff is VERY personal, one mans meat is another mans poison and all that, however one observation: If I have a bacon sandwich or that ilk mid ride, I'm completely out of it for the next 30 mins or so. I guess digesting it is too much. If I stick to sugary/cake type stuff, great.
I tend to take pitta breads, cut in half and stuffed with cheese and tomatoe. Easy to eat and seems to keep me going. I also tend to drink a lot so two large bidons and maybe a stop for coffee and cake along the way. I cannot eat those stodgy energy bars, they just make me gag. An occasional gel is OK but any more than 2 and my stomach gets upset which is unusual because I have a cast iron gut.
Couple of muesli bars for me. Seriously, I can usually manage a 3-3h30 mtb ride with just a cup of coffee, longest is 4h20, though I was a bit peckish at that point. Took me about 2-3 months to get to the point I could ride with no food, just the fat I'm carrying (6'2" and 13st8 - not terribly weighty) but has stopped me worrying about what to eat when I go on a ride.
Anyway, as someone said earlier, its all a very personal thing.
Anyway, as someone said earlier, its all a very personal thing.
richardxjr said:
Porridge for breakfast, then jelly babies from your pocket and coffee & cake at half time should be enough. Then a glass of milk and lunch after.
Yes, enough for some and not for others. Thats the whole point, its so personal ... I ride with some people who will take no food and one bottle of water for 100 mile club ride and others which have pocket fulls of food and plenty at cafe stop and two bottles.To the OP ... you're simply burning more calories than you think so eat more. Forget the guides and go with what your body needs to perform. I tend to take a few extra bars with me, just in case.
nammynake said:
So, my main question is, is the carb rule of 1g per kg per hour accurate, and does energy dropping off towards the end of a ride should like a symptom of insufficient carbs (or just calories in general)?
Yes. It sounds like you're burning more than you're putting in and you've finally used up all available glycogen stores but still asking your body to work at a rate that requires carb-fuelling.You'll have a better time if you focus on the effort level rather than the speed of a ride, when you're trying to figure out fuelling. Heart rate or power are a much better measure. If you ride below a certain threshold (<140bpm for me) your body can process fat quickly enough to fuel the ride and you're never in deficit, which means I can ride for hours on no food. On a recent 200-miler I rode 5 hours of it without any food at all and felt fine, only because I kept the HR below 130. Riding in a group can obviously have a big impact on your effort level for a given speed.
Everybody is different but I've learned I usually have enough glycogen stores to ride hard (>165bpm) for 1h45m without extra fuel. Longer than that and I'll need to be pushing calories in constantly to avoid the bonk you're describing.
Eat before you're hungry and drink before you're thirsty is a solid mantra, but you need to understand when you're likely to be hungry and how your effort level impacts that to optimise fuelling. The guideline 1g per 1kg per hour is offered as an upper limit of what can be processed rather than what is needed.
Before I head out I would take 2 sachets of porridge with 2 bananas and a bit of nutella to fuel me for a while, then maybe after 2/2.5hrs if its a particularly hard ride (most club rides would last 3/4hrs ) I would start getting stuck into the Soreen I have with me.
I always have an extra 2 or 3 small energy bars with me just in case I start to feel it. Nothing worse than that feeling knowing your about to hit the wall with your HR going through the roof
I always have an extra 2 or 3 small energy bars with me just in case I start to feel it. Nothing worse than that feeling knowing your about to hit the wall with your HR going through the roof
Edited by madzo14 on Tuesday 8th December 12:49
Eat something small every 30-40 mins, its really not that difficult is it, be it gel, flapjack, whatever (on a long ride without stopping)
Generally your body is going to be fine going hard for 90 mins before you start to run out of gas, so on an easy ride, you should be able to go a couple of hours to a cafe stop to eat a fair amount and then ride another two hours after with no need for more. The only thing to bear in mind is that your body will take a bit of time to convert whatever you stuff your face at the stop with to something useable.
Saturday gone I did 5 hours (about 95 miles), I had had a lot of beer and pizza the previous night, so I did the 50 miles to the stop fasted, ate a meal there, then set off again, it did take a while for that to start working for me, but it was alright after 25 mins or so.
Generally your body is going to be fine going hard for 90 mins before you start to run out of gas, so on an easy ride, you should be able to go a couple of hours to a cafe stop to eat a fair amount and then ride another two hours after with no need for more. The only thing to bear in mind is that your body will take a bit of time to convert whatever you stuff your face at the stop with to something useable.
Saturday gone I did 5 hours (about 95 miles), I had had a lot of beer and pizza the previous night, so I did the 50 miles to the stop fasted, ate a meal there, then set off again, it did take a while for that to start working for me, but it was alright after 25 mins or so.
Thanks for your comments guys.
I will eat more on my next ride. It's sometimes a bit of a faff when the pace is high but I'll make a conscious effort. I'm reasonably convinced my calorie intake was too low (although can't rule out just having a bad fee rides due to slight illness etc) but I can see my ability relative to other riders changing from ride to ride. I was dropping Cat 2s a few weeks ago but on my latest ride was out climbed by someone who is usually way behind me on long climbs.
I will eat more on my next ride. It's sometimes a bit of a faff when the pace is high but I'll make a conscious effort. I'm reasonably convinced my calorie intake was too low (although can't rule out just having a bad fee rides due to slight illness etc) but I can see my ability relative to other riders changing from ride to ride. I was dropping Cat 2s a few weeks ago but on my latest ride was out climbed by someone who is usually way behind me on long climbs.
Magic919 said:
It's usually Okgo bringing Dizee back down to earth, so don't take too much notice.
You can see why he needs it, hasn't been on a bike in 2 months and spouting off s
t again - zzzzzzz"mindset on a ride is crucial" - the David Brent of club runs.
Edited by okgo on Wednesday 9th December 10:08
My Don Fink book suggests some numbers as follows:
Rides/races <75 minutes: no need for calories
Rides/races >75 minutes: eat/drink to replace 33% - 50% of the calories you're burning, right from the start - ie don't skip the first 75 minutes.
The longer the ride/race the more you should be looking to the 50% end of the range, and your intake should be as even as possible - ie not 100 kcal in one hour and then 500 in the next.
I'm not offering any judgement on the quality of his advice.
Rides/races <75 minutes: no need for calories
Rides/races >75 minutes: eat/drink to replace 33% - 50% of the calories you're burning, right from the start - ie don't skip the first 75 minutes.
The longer the ride/race the more you should be looking to the 50% end of the range, and your intake should be as even as possible - ie not 100 kcal in one hour and then 500 in the next.
I'm not offering any judgement on the quality of his advice.
I recently did a 100 mile steady ride, never done this distance before, 75 is usually my limit.
A 3 Weetabix breakfast, Sainsburys chocolate covered flapjack ('cos its cut into nice convenient squares), I square every 15 to 20 minutes, an apple and 100g of midget gems.
Worked for me and I wasn't suffering at all (other than -4°c temperatures....)
A 3 Weetabix breakfast, Sainsburys chocolate covered flapjack ('cos its cut into nice convenient squares), I square every 15 to 20 minutes, an apple and 100g of midget gems.
Worked for me and I wasn't suffering at all (other than -4°c temperatures....)
I rode 70 on Sunday @ 21mph on a flat route, and had a 1l of "jungle juice" (LIke 5 scoops of SIS + water).......stopped off at 50 for an Espresso and that was it.
Rode 50 yesterday with an average of 900ft per 10 mile, and ran out of jungle juice after around 40 mile..........
All depends on how much effort's going in to the ride. I could probaly do 100 with girlfriend on a 1l, nothing else if I wanted to.
Rode 50 yesterday with an average of 900ft per 10 mile, and ran out of jungle juice after around 40 mile..........
All depends on how much effort's going in to the ride. I could probaly do 100 with girlfriend on a 1l, nothing else if I wanted to.
I spent most of this year eating sugary flapjacks, bars, etc but found a switch the the good old pork pie was well worth it! Since then i've also been trying to move my general diet a little away from carbs (mostly cutting sugar) toward fat on teh basis that i've got tons of that to use up!
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