Wheel paint problems AND car under Porsche warranty?
Discussion
Just put in a warranty claim for wheels on my 5/14 Cayman, 15k miles. Carrera S 20" in Platinum.
Every spoke of each wheel has stone chips to the forward face of the spoke, near the rim. One spoke pictured from each wheel...
I've never experienced this issue with any car, BMW, Merc, Audi. My wife's A3 has perfect wheel paint after 3+ years.
This is the basis for my claim. That the wheels are not fit for purpose, nor of satisfactory quality. The painting process is flawed.
This thread is NOT to argue whether I stand a chance. It is for others in a similar situation to post about their CURRENT wheel problems IF under Porsche warranty (car model, age, mileage, wheel type) so that we might share info with a view to each having a better chance of claiming under warranty. Also, those who have succeeded or failed in a similar claim can post why they won/lost.
Thanks for any, on topic, contributions.
Every spoke of each wheel has stone chips to the forward face of the spoke, near the rim. One spoke pictured from each wheel...
I've never experienced this issue with any car, BMW, Merc, Audi. My wife's A3 has perfect wheel paint after 3+ years.
This is the basis for my claim. That the wheels are not fit for purpose, nor of satisfactory quality. The painting process is flawed.
This thread is NOT to argue whether I stand a chance. It is for others in a similar situation to post about their CURRENT wheel problems IF under Porsche warranty (car model, age, mileage, wheel type) so that we might share info with a view to each having a better chance of claiming under warranty. Also, those who have succeeded or failed in a similar claim can post why they won/lost.
Thanks for any, on topic, contributions.
Well DMC, I am with you, but with caution.
Same wheels on my GTS (Satin Titanium), after 3k miles all wheels have small marks due to stone chips.
Not many (how many miles on yours?), but at least a couple, some more than 1 mm diameter or more than 2 mm long.
Unfortunately this car doesn't cope well with stone chips.
As it is my 1st sportscar, I wonder if Ferraris, Lambos have the same issue.
You should not compare a Cayman with Audi and BMW (unless R8). Stance, dimensions, ground clearances and height are well different.
Same wheels on my GTS (Satin Titanium), after 3k miles all wheels have small marks due to stone chips.
Not many (how many miles on yours?), but at least a couple, some more than 1 mm diameter or more than 2 mm long.
Unfortunately this car doesn't cope well with stone chips.
As it is my 1st sportscar, I wonder if Ferraris, Lambos have the same issue.
You should not compare a Cayman with Audi and BMW (unless R8). Stance, dimensions, ground clearances and height are well different.
RBT0 said:
Well DMC, I am with you, but with caution.
Same wheels on my GTS (Satin Titanium), after 3k miles all wheels have small marks due to stone chips.
Not many (how many miles on yours?), but at least a couple, some more than 1 mm diameter or more than 2 mm long.
Unfortunately this car doesn't cope well with stone chips.
As it is my 1st sportscar, I wonder if Ferraris, Lambos have the same issue.
You should not compare a Cayman with Audi and BMW (unless R8). Stance, dimensions, ground clearances and height are well different.
Well, my previous Black Edition TTS wheels, Titanium (gun metal) 19" with 35 ratio tyres, were immaculate after 3 years and 31k miles. Not a mark. Not one!Same wheels on my GTS (Satin Titanium), after 3k miles all wheels have small marks due to stone chips.
Not many (how many miles on yours?), but at least a couple, some more than 1 mm diameter or more than 2 mm long.
Unfortunately this car doesn't cope well with stone chips.
As it is my 1st sportscar, I wonder if Ferraris, Lambos have the same issue.
You should not compare a Cayman with Audi and BMW (unless R8). Stance, dimensions, ground clearances and height are well different.
Similarly my '97 Aston DB7 wheels were unmarked after 70k miles and 8 years.
All of the wheels on the cars I have owned have had zero ground clearance. Tyre height may have an influence. Wheel design certainly will. But paint process is the key here I feel. It's just not up to scratch. My Cayman has 15k miles, as first post.
DJMC said:
Just put in a warranty claim for wheels on my 5/14 Cayman, 15k miles. Carrera S 20" in Platinum.
Every spoke of each wheel has stone chips to the forward face of the spoke, near the rim. One spoke pictured from each wheel...
Did you purchase the car from new?Every spoke of each wheel has stone chips to the forward face of the spoke, near the rim. One spoke pictured from each wheel...
I'm in the Shotblast and powder coating industry, I see some poor quality refurb work out there.
Jay.
Boggle73 said:
Did you purchase the car from new?
I'm in the Shotblast and powder coating industry, I see some poor quality refurb work out there.
Jay.
Car was a Porsche GB (Reading) car for 6 months and 7600 miles. Then purchased from them by my private seller. He didn't have them refurbed (Porsche GB may have done of course, when prepping for sale to him) nor did he drive anywhere odd, he told me two days ago. If PGB have a record of refurbing them, all the more reason for them to honour the warranty as they must have done a "take 'em out the back" paint job.I'm in the Shotblast and powder coating industry, I see some poor quality refurb work out there.
Jay.
Previous owner can do a witness statement for me if it goes to court, confirming the above. I do not think a reasonable judge would think it reasonable for a £4k set of wheels to be presenting such issues in normal usage after 18 months/15k miles.
I have been to county court a large number of times as plaintiff, so I will weigh up the risks if PGB don't play ball.
Being honest, I cannot see any evidence of full refurb on the photos you posted. Usually, you would see an uneven surface finish where the blasting process had taken place. A full strip of powder and lacquer requires a fair amount of abrasion. This leaves a deep key in the metal that is very hard to cover. The paint thickness cannot fill the depth of the key.
Your wheels do look pretty good finish on the photos, but without seeing them in the flesh it's hard to tell.
If you need any advice let me know, I deal with dozens of wheel refurb companies across the UK.
Jay.
Your wheels do look pretty good finish on the photos, but without seeing them in the flesh it's hard to tell.
If you need any advice let me know, I deal with dozens of wheel refurb companies across the UK.
Jay.
Boggle73 said:
Being honest, I cannot see any evidence of full refurb on the photos you posted. Usually, you would see an uneven surface finish where the blasting process had taken place. A full strip of powder and lacquer requires a fair amount of abrasion. This leaves a deep key in the metal that is very hard to cover. The paint thickness cannot fill the depth of the key.
Your wheels do look pretty good finish on the photos, but without seeing them in the flesh it's hard to tell.
If you need any advice let me know, I deal with dozens of wheel refurb companies across the UK.
Jay.
Thanks Jay. The 2nd photo down shows the marks better, but not as good as to the naked eye. I'm sure PGB won't replace the wheels, unless the alloy is to blame, but how do I prove that! If they offer to re-paint I'll want to know who is doing it and by what process.Your wheels do look pretty good finish on the photos, but without seeing them in the flesh it's hard to tell.
If you need any advice let me know, I deal with dozens of wheel refurb companies across the UK.
Jay.
I used a "good" (per the forums) powder coater to re-do some 8 year old BMW wheels a few years back and they were losing the coating before 2 years. I hear Lepsons are good, but who else local to Birmingham/Coventry/Leicester?
What I could do with is an "expert" who could say whether it IS the paint that's been badly applied as they stand. Again, who in the Midlands is going to stick their neck out as a witness without it costing me an arm and a leg?
I don't know anyone that would stick their neck out to prove the wheels were not up to scratch, a long time has passed since manufacture.
I'm also not fully versed on Porsche manufacture process, microns, lacquer, temperatures etc....
Lepsons are very good for refurb, and also very busy. I waited 6 weeks for a slot on RS4. Very good results though, £800 total cost including new TPMS.
There is a large nationwide company that I wouldn't touch. I do work for them, and I see the volumes that go through in a day. Not much care goes into it.
So many things can affect the wheel after manufacture, brake dust, salt, acid cleaner, steam cleaning. It would be hard in court to prove that non of the above had affected them. If you get a gesture of goodwill from Porsche then brilliant, if not, think carefully before taking further action. The cost of a good refurb may be worth it.
Jay.
I'm also not fully versed on Porsche manufacture process, microns, lacquer, temperatures etc....
Lepsons are very good for refurb, and also very busy. I waited 6 weeks for a slot on RS4. Very good results though, £800 total cost including new TPMS.
There is a large nationwide company that I wouldn't touch. I do work for them, and I see the volumes that go through in a day. Not much care goes into it.
So many things can affect the wheel after manufacture, brake dust, salt, acid cleaner, steam cleaning. It would be hard in court to prove that non of the above had affected them. If you get a gesture of goodwill from Porsche then brilliant, if not, think carefully before taking further action. The cost of a good refurb may be worth it.
Jay.
Boggle73 said:
I don't know anyone that would stick their neck out to prove the wheels were not up to scratch, a long time has passed since manufacture.
I'm also not fully versed on Porsche manufacture process, microns, lacquer, temperatures etc....
Lepsons are very good for refurb, and also very busy. I waited 6 weeks for a slot on RS4. Very good results though, £800 total cost including new TPMS.
There is a large nationwide company that I wouldn't touch. I do work for them, and I see the volumes that go through in a day. Not much care goes into it.
So many things can affect the wheel after manufacture, brake dust, salt, acid cleaner, steam cleaning. It would be hard in court to prove that non of the above had affected them. If you get a gesture of goodwill from Porsche then brilliant, if not, think carefully before taking further action. The cost of a good refurb may be worth it.
Jay.
Usually, in my experience (though none automotive involving wheels) the threat of court proceedings after the charm offensive has failed does the trick. If not, a county court claim landing on the defendant's mat seems to polarise them, mostly into worrying about the cost of defending an action for what, £400 to 500? Not worth their while paying for legal representation, so they fold.I'm also not fully versed on Porsche manufacture process, microns, lacquer, temperatures etc....
Lepsons are very good for refurb, and also very busy. I waited 6 weeks for a slot on RS4. Very good results though, £800 total cost including new TPMS.
There is a large nationwide company that I wouldn't touch. I do work for them, and I see the volumes that go through in a day. Not much care goes into it.
So many things can affect the wheel after manufacture, brake dust, salt, acid cleaner, steam cleaning. It would be hard in court to prove that non of the above had affected them. If you get a gesture of goodwill from Porsche then brilliant, if not, think carefully before taking further action. The cost of a good refurb may be worth it.
Jay.
Plus, if they do lose in court, there's publicity and follow-on claims to worry about. Mostly, it's finding the right person in the organisation who understands the repercussions if they don't handle a persistent customer properly.
The relevant law here is now all about what the "average" man in the street would think about the item being satisfactory. So the judge should wear that hat and ask would he, the average man, be happy in my position? As the plaintiff, I also represent the average man, and why would I go to all the trouble of taking court action unless I felt rather aggrieved. All this adds up, but you never know what a judge will do on the day!
Never had anything like this with any of my cars. Looks like they just don't have a tough enough finish.
Perhaps the problem is confounded / related to the spoke design which somehow draws in and throws all the small bits of grit and road detritis onto the front face of the rims.
Is there any possibility thid could be 'bits' thrown off the brake pads which are hot under braking and give the wheel finish a hard time?
I made a warranty claim once on a polished Brabus rim that had let a small water mark show under the laquer. Dealer had no issue getting a replacement after submitting a photo as it was clear there was no user inflicted damage.
So long as the damage is clearly not due to kerbing / accident damage Porsche should sort it out. Everyone that has an issue needs to report it though so they know they have a problem and be clear that such wear is not acceptable or expected.
Good luck with this.
Perhaps the problem is confounded / related to the spoke design which somehow draws in and throws all the small bits of grit and road detritis onto the front face of the rims.
Is there any possibility thid could be 'bits' thrown off the brake pads which are hot under braking and give the wheel finish a hard time?
I made a warranty claim once on a polished Brabus rim that had let a small water mark show under the laquer. Dealer had no issue getting a replacement after submitting a photo as it was clear there was no user inflicted damage.
So long as the damage is clearly not due to kerbing / accident damage Porsche should sort it out. Everyone that has an issue needs to report it though so they know they have a problem and be clear that such wear is not acceptable or expected.
Good luck with this.
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