CCJ - when would I get one? (Council Tax)
Discussion
I have recently moved and in dispute with my council over my council tax. I live in a one bedroom flat and somehow got given a band D despite 2 bedroom houses getting a band C's.
The VOA have dismissed on the bases that Nationwide's data online is not reliable so they will stick with their decision so I now need to go to a Tribunal.
As I do not believe this money to be due, I am only paying what I believe is owed. I think I'm a Band B from evidence, but have compromised and told the council I will pay at a Band C rate until the Tribunal rulling.
As I am effectively in 6 months worth of council tax arrears for around £50 in total, they are now going to take me to court. I'm happy with the costs of £80 they want to claim back from me by doing so, but I don't want anything adverse to be reported, especially a CCJ as I have an excellent credit rating.
I could just pay the £50, but I really dont like being bullied into it when there is clear evidence I am being over charged and I would hope a court could see that. All my graphs and history of sales stands up in my favour.
How does it work, I go to court over this £50, and if they find in the councils favour I will pay it, but is that it, or would I get a CCJ for this?
The VOA have dismissed on the bases that Nationwide's data online is not reliable so they will stick with their decision so I now need to go to a Tribunal.
As I do not believe this money to be due, I am only paying what I believe is owed. I think I'm a Band B from evidence, but have compromised and told the council I will pay at a Band C rate until the Tribunal rulling.
As I am effectively in 6 months worth of council tax arrears for around £50 in total, they are now going to take me to court. I'm happy with the costs of £80 they want to claim back from me by doing so, but I don't want anything adverse to be reported, especially a CCJ as I have an excellent credit rating.
I could just pay the £50, but I really dont like being bullied into it when there is clear evidence I am being over charged and I would hope a court could see that. All my graphs and history of sales stands up in my favour.
How does it work, I go to court over this £50, and if they find in the councils favour I will pay it, but is that it, or would I get a CCJ for this?
I'd be working on the basis that I'm due to pay the full amount until I get the property re-banded.
Working your way leaves you going to court to argue over what you owe, when In reality you are liable for the amount the council is billing you. The court is not there to re-band your property.
Working your way leaves you going to court to argue over what you owe, when In reality you are liable for the amount the council is billing you. The court is not there to re-band your property.
Amused2death said:
Isn't that cutting off your nose to spite your face?
I completely agree. I would contest the £80 charge but if someone rulled it I don't have much choice.It's a saga which has gone on for months and I've invested far to much time into this already I can't just let it go. I'm annoyingly too stubborn
https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-...
"4. CCJs and your credit rating
If you get a county court judgment (CCJ) or a high court judgment, it will stay on the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines for 6 years.
Banks and loan companies use this information to decide whether to give you credit or loans.
If you pay within a month
If you pay the full amount within a month you can get the judgment removed from the register.
If you pay after a month
If you pay after a month, you can get the record of the judgment marked as ‘satisfied’ in the register.
It will stay on the register for 6 years but people searching the register will see that you’ve paid.
Contact the court to say you’ve paid - you’ll need to send proof of payment, and pay a £15 court fee."
"4. CCJs and your credit rating
If you get a county court judgment (CCJ) or a high court judgment, it will stay on the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines for 6 years.
Banks and loan companies use this information to decide whether to give you credit or loans.
If you pay within a month
If you pay the full amount within a month you can get the judgment removed from the register.
If you pay after a month
If you pay after a month, you can get the record of the judgment marked as ‘satisfied’ in the register.
It will stay on the register for 6 years but people searching the register will see that you’ve paid.
Contact the court to say you’ve paid - you’ll need to send proof of payment, and pay a £15 court fee."
Edited by paintman on Saturday 12th December 15:41
PHlL said:
I completely agree. I would contest the £80 charge but if someone rulled it I don't have much choice.
It's a saga which has gone on for months and I've invested far to much time into this already I can't just let it go. I'm annoyingly too stubborn
There's stubborn and stupid.It's a saga which has gone on for months and I've invested far to much time into this already I can't just let it go. I'm annoyingly too stubborn
To risk a CCJ over something so trivial seems, respectfully, just stupid.
Pay it, wait until it's sorted.
You are doing the right thing and if there weren't people like you willing to fight the system, they'd do as they please. In my own case where they refused to send me an updated demand with the correct spelling of my name, I refused to pay outright and was willing to be taken to court. When they spelt my name right, I paid the arrears.
There will be no CCJ recorded against you if you pay the judgement within a month.
There will be no CCJ recorded against you if you pay the judgement within a month.
Having a quick look through experian's website brings up this:
"I paid my judgment. Why is still on my report?
Judgments are kept on your report for six years. If it is paid, it can be updated to read as satisfied but will remain on your report. However, judgments paid within one month can be removed from your report. For county court judgments you will need to obtain a Certificate of Satisfaction from the court before we are able to update our records.
How do I remove a paid judgment from my report?
England and Wales. If you paid a judgment contact the County Court concerned and ask for a Certificate of Satisfaction or, if you paid within one calendar month, a Certificate of Cancellation. Be sure to include the official fee of £10 payable to HM Paymaster General. Once a Certificate is issued an amendment is made to the public record and Registry Trust Ltd will notify the credit reference agencies (Equifax, Callcredit, and Experian) of the change within four weeks and records will then be amended, if applicable."
http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/faq/CCJ2.html
Which reads as though it may well be recorded but would be removed altogether if settled within a month after you've paid the amount plus the fee.
If that IS the case - and I don't know the answer - then it could be on your record for a short period. All well & good if no checks are carried out during that time BUT is it worth the risk?
ETA looks like the charge is the £15 in the UKgov link!
"I paid my judgment. Why is still on my report?
Judgments are kept on your report for six years. If it is paid, it can be updated to read as satisfied but will remain on your report. However, judgments paid within one month can be removed from your report. For county court judgments you will need to obtain a Certificate of Satisfaction from the court before we are able to update our records.
How do I remove a paid judgment from my report?
England and Wales. If you paid a judgment contact the County Court concerned and ask for a Certificate of Satisfaction or, if you paid within one calendar month, a Certificate of Cancellation. Be sure to include the official fee of £10 payable to HM Paymaster General. Once a Certificate is issued an amendment is made to the public record and Registry Trust Ltd will notify the credit reference agencies (Equifax, Callcredit, and Experian) of the change within four weeks and records will then be amended, if applicable."
http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/faq/CCJ2.html
Which reads as though it may well be recorded but would be removed altogether if settled within a month after you've paid the amount plus the fee.
If that IS the case - and I don't know the answer - then it could be on your record for a short period. All well & good if no checks are carried out during that time BUT is it worth the risk?
ETA looks like the charge is the £15 in the UKgov link!
Edited by paintman on Saturday 12th December 16:01
PHlL said:
I have recently moved and in dispute with my council over my council tax. I live in a one bedroom flat and somehow got given a band D despite 2 bedroom houses getting a band C's.
The band is nothing to do with your council. It is set by a politically independent national body, the VOA.The only thing that matters when it comes to the banding is the nominal value in 1991 - number of bedrooms, floor area, property type etc don't directly affect the band - except in that they affect the value. But so, of course, do a stack of other factors. If your flat is in a better area than those houses, say, it could easily have been more valuable.
There's a relationship between the amounts for each band - national. Band B is 7/9ths of the nominal figure the council set, C is 8/9ths, D is 9/9ths. So if your Band D figure was £90/mo, band C would be £80, band B would be £70.
PHlL said:
The VOA have dismissed on the bases that Nationwide's data online is not reliable so they will stick with their decision so I now need to go to a Tribunal.
Let's go back a step... Where has this banding come from? New build? Or improvement index flag when you moved in?You were given the new banding, you appealed it, and you were given the comparatives they used to decide your banding. Right? You disagree with those comparatives, presumably?
PHlL said:
As I do not believe this money to be due
Tough. It is.If you then get the band corrected, you can reclaim the overpayment. But, unless and until it is, you owe that money.
PHlL said:
As I am effectively in 6 months worth of council tax arrears for around £50 in total
You will only be in "six months worth" of arrears for £50 if your council tax is less than a tenner a year. It isn't. If you owe £50, you owe £50. If you owe six months, you owe six months. What is the reality?PHlL said:
they are now going to take me to court.
They don't do that for £50...I suspect that you've been underpaying by just under a tenner a month (one band's worth of difference after the single person 25% discount?) for the six months, so £50 total? However, I'd also suspect that they've told you they'll no longer take monthly payments from you, so pay up in full, and you've refused...?
PHlL said:
How does it work, I go to court over this £50, and if they find in the councils favour I will pay it, but is that it, or would I get a CCJ for this?
If you go to court, and lose - which, from what you've said, you will - then unless you pay, you will get a CCJ against you until you do pay.Bear in mind that, if the court thinks you're taking the piss in refusing to pay, they can jail you - which can't be done on other types of debt.
Eclassy said:
You are doing the right thing and if there weren't people like you willing to fight the system, they'd do as they please. In my own case where they refused to send me an updated demand with the correct spelling of my name, I refused to pay outright and was willing to be taken to court. When they spelt my name right, I paid the arrears.
Seriously? That's some very petty and childish behaviour over a minor clerical error.<notices user name>
As you were.
TooMany2cvs said:
If you go to court, and lose - which, from what you've said, you will - then unless you pay, you will get a CCJ against you until you do pay.
Bear in mind that, if the court thinks you're taking the piss in refusing to pay, they can jail you - which can't be done on other types of debt.
Thanks for the detailed response.Bear in mind that, if the court thinks you're taking the piss in refusing to pay, they can jail you - which can't be done on other types of debt.
To elaborate more. It's a new build. On our street it's mainly 5 bedroom houses, but a few 2 and 3 bedroom and my flat. The big houses are F's, the 3's are D, the 2's are C's, and I'm somehow a D. If that is the case, the 2 bedrooms should atleast be D's with me.
I have graphed my local area and from my understanding, 70% of the one bedroom flats are a Band B, 25% are Band C, and the other 5% is Band A. No other 1 bed flats in the local area are a Band D
It's an annual £150 difference at 25% as stated over 5 months. If they have taken away the ability to pay monthly, I will happily pay Band C pricing in advance.
I genuinely would not be just chancing it. It's black and white to me which is why I'm not letting it go. I really am amazed the VOA didn't change it
PHlL said:
I have graphed my local area and from my understanding, 70% of the one bedroom flats are a Band B, 25% are Band C, and the other 5% is Band A.
Which, of course, has nothing to do with the price of fish. Floor area? Facilities? Parking? "Prestige"?PHlL said:
No other 1 bed flats in the local area are a Band D
<shrug> That's nice, dear...PHlL said:
I genuinely would not be just chancing it.
Except that is EXACTLY what you are doing.PHlL said:
It's black and white to me which is why I'm not letting it go.
What you mean by that, of course, is that you've taken umbrage at what you perceive to be massive intransigence and a personal insult, so have dug your heels in - which has made it into a matter of principle, which is why it now LOOKS black and white to you.PHlL said:
I really am amazed the VOA didn't change it
That's as may be. But the reality is very simple... UNTIL THE VOA DO, YOU ARE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO PAY YOUR COUNCIL THE BAND D RATE. UNLESS YOU DO, YOU WILL BUILD UP ARREARS, OVER WHICH THE COUNCIL CAN TAKE LEGAL ACTION - and you are very, very likely to lose that legal action. If and when the VOA do down-band it, then you WILL get a full refund for the difference.PHlL said:
when there is clear evidence I am being over charged and I would hope a court could see that. All my graphs and history of sales stands up in my favour.
How does it work, I go to court over this £50, and if they find in the councils favour I will pay it, but is that it, or would I get a CCJ for this?
If it goes to court then I would imagine your complaint about the banding will be irrelevant. The VOA decide the banding not the council. If the council have charged the banding given by the VOA then the only thing to be discussed in court is whether you have paid it or not.How does it work, I go to court over this £50, and if they find in the councils favour I will pay it, but is that it, or would I get a CCJ for this?
essayer said:
Do you even get a CCJ for unpaid council tax?
I thought the council could go to court, get a liability order (+costs), and then enforce recovery accordingly (+bailiff costs etc)
This is correct, ignore everything else in the thread.I thought the council could go to court, get a liability order (+costs), and then enforce recovery accordingly (+bailiff costs etc)
Basically the Council are going to court to get a liability order, and will succeed because you are not disputing you are liable to pay. You want to dispute the amount you have to pay and in order to do that you dispute the Banding which you are doing.
The Council are legally obliged the amount payable according to your Band whether that band is correct or not. If your subsequent appeal against the band is successful then the band will be changed, back to the effective date which will depend on when the appeal was made, when the banding was done etc, and you will then receive a refund of the amount you have overpaid.
So pay the amount you owe, and concentrateon the Tribunal hearing about the band.
As a point of order a Liability Order is not a CCJ and has no impact on your credit rating at all. It just gives the council the right to enforce payment of Council Tax, and it is subsequent steps that might impact on your credit rating.
However what you need to do is oay the bill, and concebtrate on sorting out the banding
TooMany2cvs said:
Eclassy said:
You are doing the right thing and if there weren't people like you willing to fight the system, they'd do as they please. In my own case where they refused to send me an updated demand with the correct spelling of my name, I refused to pay outright and was willing to be taken to court. When they spelt my name right, I paid the arrears.
Seriously? That's some very petty and childish behaviour over a minor clerical error.<notices user name>
As you were.
Can't be that hard to spell, one would have thought.
My daughter moved into her new build apartment in September. Once she'd set up the DD for the council tax, electric bill and water rates she organised a woman with a clipboard to come round and assess her CT banding - which was successful, BTW.
At no time did she withhold or refuse payment. OP, you're doing it wrong.
At no time did she withhold or refuse payment. OP, you're doing it wrong.
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